RE: BMW M5 (E39): PH Heroes
Discussion
PABLOESCOBAR said:
As a serious classic car lover who also like modern classics as well, the only thing that really lets the car down is it's looks.
Anything Bmw make with an M badge is always going to be a sure classic in time.
The biggest problem with this car (e39 m5) is the e46 m3 is a lot better.
Listed below are the only problems i can see if anyone wanted to buy one today.
1. Does not fit in a normal garage. (for those who like storing cars in enbloc garages, this is a problem) Where are you going to keep,store it if you live in a flat, terrace house etc or just have a normal size garage. E46 m3 fits in enbloc garage.
2 Not enough choice of good cars now. To many 140k + cars with 10k + price tags.
3. Has not aged well.looks let it down now. I really wanted one of these 5 years ago. Now i'm glad i got an m3 instead.
4. To old now. Far to expensive for what they are with to many hidden problems. Steering angle sensor. dead pixels etc. Money pit.
5. Would have to spend 20k to get a good one.
Otherwise a great car and a PH hero.
You can apply the age related issues argument to the E46 too albeit slightly different problems that can occur, IMO they are overpriced for what they are, and there are loads of ratty ones still for sale at too high of a price - still a great car nonethelessAnything Bmw make with an M badge is always going to be a sure classic in time.
The biggest problem with this car (e39 m5) is the e46 m3 is a lot better.
Listed below are the only problems i can see if anyone wanted to buy one today.
1. Does not fit in a normal garage. (for those who like storing cars in enbloc garages, this is a problem) Where are you going to keep,store it if you live in a flat, terrace house etc or just have a normal size garage. E46 m3 fits in enbloc garage.
2 Not enough choice of good cars now. To many 140k + cars with 10k + price tags.
3. Has not aged well.looks let it down now. I really wanted one of these 5 years ago. Now i'm glad i got an m3 instead.
4. To old now. Far to expensive for what they are with to many hidden problems. Steering angle sensor. dead pixels etc. Money pit.
5. Would have to spend 20k to get a good one.
Otherwise a great car and a PH hero.
When I bought mine new I thought it was about the best performance car in its class. It was a wonderful car, and I loved just about everything about it. I think it was maybe the last of the truly special M5s. I think one to an E63 M6 as my final M car. Massively powerful car and impressive in its own very different way, but I never felt as happy with it as I had with the E39.
Not sure why it attracts so much controversy.
Not sure why it attracts so much controversy.
Ha Ha
In reply to Dealofthebeast. You make a very valid and good point.
Yes you are 100% correct. You can apply the same information to the bmw e46 m3 that i made in my thread.
Although the e46 m3 will fit in a garage. lol
The e39 m5 really is a great car.
Would i hand over 10k for one right now. NO.
Would i hand over 10k for a bmw e46 m3 manual coupe. Yes.
In reply to Dealofthebeast. You make a very valid and good point.
Yes you are 100% correct. You can apply the same information to the bmw e46 m3 that i made in my thread.
Although the e46 m3 will fit in a garage. lol
The e39 m5 really is a great car.
Would i hand over 10k for one right now. NO.
Would i hand over 10k for a bmw e46 m3 manual coupe. Yes.
PABLOESCOBAR said:
Ha Ha
In reply to Dealofthebeast. You make a very valid and good point.
Yes you are 100% correct. You can apply the same information to the bmw e46 m3 that i made in my thread.
Although the e46 m3 will fit in a garage. lol
The e39 m5 really is a great car.
Would i hand over 10k for one right now. NO.
Would i hand over 10k for a bmw e46 m3 manual coupe. Yes.
Interesting how we all perceive things differently.In reply to Dealofthebeast. You make a very valid and good point.
Yes you are 100% correct. You can apply the same information to the bmw e46 m3 that i made in my thread.
Although the e46 m3 will fit in a garage. lol
The e39 m5 really is a great car.
Would i hand over 10k for one right now. NO.
Would i hand over 10k for a bmw e46 m3 manual coupe. Yes.
Would I spend 10k for a m3 E46: never
Would I spend 10k for a m3 E36: yes
E39 M5 with low mileage: I would spend up to 20
E34 M5 like mine: I would spend 25k to 30k
E28 M5... Dream machine.
I agree we all have dirrerent opinions.
I have owned all the M cars except the e28 m5 and latest new stuff.
I have owned 4 e28’s and they are great. Lots of memories of my dad driving a mint e28 528i auto in red.
Would I pay 10k for a e36 m3 yes, would you get a good car for that. Only if you were really lucky. Most are 160k miles and only for shows and weekend use now and they are 10 grand.
But you would get a e46 m3 for 10k with 90k miles.
I suppose what I am getting at is there are more of them around than e39 m5’s and e36 m3’s and you are more likely to get a better car for the money.
I think the days of getting a good e39 m5 for reasonable money are long over. Same for the e36 m3.
Now is you were to say what car is coolest. That would make for a great debate.
What Is the coolest M power car.
I have owned all the M cars except the e28 m5 and latest new stuff.
I have owned 4 e28’s and they are great. Lots of memories of my dad driving a mint e28 528i auto in red.
Would I pay 10k for a e36 m3 yes, would you get a good car for that. Only if you were really lucky. Most are 160k miles and only for shows and weekend use now and they are 10 grand.
But you would get a e46 m3 for 10k with 90k miles.
I suppose what I am getting at is there are more of them around than e39 m5’s and e36 m3’s and you are more likely to get a better car for the money.
I think the days of getting a good e39 m5 for reasonable money are long over. Same for the e36 m3.
Now is you were to say what car is coolest. That would make for a great debate.
What Is the coolest M power car.
There are two cars that I look back at with fondness and wonder "what could have been".
1) Sierra Sapphire RS Cosworth
2) E39 M5.
I owned my Cossie when I was young and wish I had have kept it, but I couldn't afford to run it as a daily and it would have ended up ruining it. My M5 as poorly and I couldn't justify the thousands I would have needed to spend to get it right. But I do miss both.
My E55 would blow my M5 away easily in a straight line. But it is a bit dull and doesn't feel special like the M5 did. Good ones are too expensive and need a supercharger imo to make the best of them.
Would I have another? Do bears s
t in the woods?
1) Sierra Sapphire RS Cosworth
2) E39 M5.
I owned my Cossie when I was young and wish I had have kept it, but I couldn't afford to run it as a daily and it would have ended up ruining it. My M5 as poorly and I couldn't justify the thousands I would have needed to spend to get it right. But I do miss both.
My E55 would blow my M5 away easily in a straight line. But it is a bit dull and doesn't feel special like the M5 did. Good ones are too expensive and need a supercharger imo to make the best of them.
Would I have another? Do bears s
t in the woods?RichardM5 said:
PABLOESCOBAR said:
Now is you were to say what car is coolest. That would make for a great debate.
What Is the coolest M power car.
I don't think there is too much debate about that, not that I'm biased at all ...What Is the coolest M power car.
However, just to play devil's advocate, I offer the Hartge H35-24, in this instance fitted with a 330hp M88 (I believe they fitted the S38 in them when available, but not sure if ever in 3.8L-form)
I have an '02 plate M5, I've put over 130,000 miles on it so far and counting...
I have spent way more on fuel than it cost me to buy and I dropped something like £25k on it just over 10yrs ago.
The current clutch has lasted over 100k since the first died a mysterious death after a play with a GTR on the M25 whilst the rear discs only lasted 150,000 miles
The second greatest expense has been tyres, a pair of rears every 14k miles or so which is about once a year and fronts every other year.
It still has all its' dash pixels, I have no idea wtf a steering angle sensor is/does and the valve stem seals are a bit fked so it's slurping 10w60 like a 350 powervalve on silkolene...
An e60 M5 is way faster and it would need a sniffer dog and a map to see which way a Nissan GTR went but if you use them every day they stay reliable and are as tough as old boots.
And as for people claiming an e46 M3 is a better car... I'd like to see their rear boot floor/differential mount after the equivilent of five times round the worlds worth of sustained abuse, not just being brave enough to hit 3,000rpm in 3rd... Where talking shifting 3rd to 4th hard enough to light up the TC on the dash!!
A big lottery win would see mine being sent back to Bavaria for a full rebuild, yes you can buy faster but their honesty and toughness as a car really gets under your skin.
I have spent way more on fuel than it cost me to buy and I dropped something like £25k on it just over 10yrs ago.
The current clutch has lasted over 100k since the first died a mysterious death after a play with a GTR on the M25 whilst the rear discs only lasted 150,000 miles
The second greatest expense has been tyres, a pair of rears every 14k miles or so which is about once a year and fronts every other year.
It still has all its' dash pixels, I have no idea wtf a steering angle sensor is/does and the valve stem seals are a bit f
ked so it's slurping 10w60 like a 350 powervalve on silkolene...An e60 M5 is way faster and it would need a sniffer dog and a map to see which way a Nissan GTR went but if you use them every day they stay reliable and are as tough as old boots.
And as for people claiming an e46 M3 is a better car... I'd like to see their rear boot floor/differential mount after the equivilent of five times round the worlds worth of sustained abuse, not just being brave enough to hit 3,000rpm in 3rd... Where talking shifting 3rd to 4th hard enough to light up the TC on the dash!!
A big lottery win would see mine being sent back to Bavaria for a full rebuild, yes you can buy faster but their honesty and toughness as a car really gets under your skin.
I had similar experience with mine, it burned a liter of oil every 1000 miles, pixel repair costs $25 if you know how to fix it and $100 if you don't, I had to repair ABS module which costed me around hundred...very small costs for such a powerful and comfy car. The biggest cost as you said is fuel (and tires).
E60 is faster car especially on long straights but maintenance is nightmare compared to E39. It's still cheapest V10 you could own (if you take into account purchase cost which is silly low compared to other V10s).
E60 is faster car especially on long straights but maintenance is nightmare compared to E39. It's still cheapest V10 you could own (if you take into account purchase cost which is silly low compared to other V10s).
PABLOESCOBAR said:
As a serious classic car lover who also like modern classics as well, the only thing that really lets the car down is it's looks.
Anything Bmw make with an M badge is always going to be a sure classic in time.
The biggest problem with this car (e39 m5) is the e46 m3 is a lot better.
Listed below are the only problems i can see if anyone wanted to buy one today.
1. Does not fit in a normal garage. (for those who like storing cars in enbloc garages, this is a problem) Where are you going to keep,store it if you live in a flat, terrace house etc or just have a normal size garage. E46 m3 fits in enbloc garage.
2 Not enough choice of good cars now. To many 140k + cars with 10k + price tags.
3. Has not aged well.looks let it down now. I really wanted one of these 5 years ago. Now i'm glad i got an m3 instead.
4. To old now. Far to expensive for what they are with to many hidden problems. Steering angle sensor. dead pixels etc. Money pit.
5. Would have to spend 20k to get a good one.
Otherwise a great car and a PH hero.
1. I don't know what an enbloc garage is (Non UK resident), but were they originally planned to house something the size of a Morris Minor? If a nowadays very moderately sized M5 doesn't fit be glad you're not looking at buying any new car then..Anything Bmw make with an M badge is always going to be a sure classic in time.
The biggest problem with this car (e39 m5) is the e46 m3 is a lot better.
Listed below are the only problems i can see if anyone wanted to buy one today.
1. Does not fit in a normal garage. (for those who like storing cars in enbloc garages, this is a problem) Where are you going to keep,store it if you live in a flat, terrace house etc or just have a normal size garage. E46 m3 fits in enbloc garage.
2 Not enough choice of good cars now. To many 140k + cars with 10k + price tags.
3. Has not aged well.looks let it down now. I really wanted one of these 5 years ago. Now i'm glad i got an m3 instead.
4. To old now. Far to expensive for what they are with to many hidden problems. Steering angle sensor. dead pixels etc. Money pit.
5. Would have to spend 20k to get a good one.
Otherwise a great car and a PH hero.
2. The same applies for M3's, both the insanely cool e36 variety and the very nice e46 one.
3. I beg to differ, I reckon the e39 regardless of variant has aged very well indeed, it's an old car, but the e46 M3 lacks the crispness in the lines, still a good looking coupe but being let down alot that it never got the much needed exterior facelift that the rest of the range got.. Imo of course as looks are very subjective. A well kept e38 on M-sport suspension and Style 37's look better than either, but that's beside the point.
4. Pay up, get a good one. The newest ones turn 15 in 2018 so they are old, and old powerful cars are going to cost to maitain, but keeping up on maintanence and they are very robust indeed.
5. See point 4. Pay up
and rejoice the fact that you will not lose any money on it. They are also faster (fact) and sound better (subjective) than en e46 M3.
In response to power slide allow me to elaborate on one point I made. Design
I am a designer. So I always look at a cars design to see what the designer has done and to see if they missed a trick, deliberately or by design.
They should have flared the arches on the e39 M5. I know the original idea for the m5 was to be a Q car, wolf in sheeps clothing etc and not be obvious. But by the time the e39 m5 came out it needed to differ completely from the normal 520i.
Bmw learned there lessons from feedback on the e36 m3. Many saying it lacked the aggressive look of the e30 m3. So the e46 m3 got flared arches so it stands out from the normal e46 range.
Just my opinion guys, so if you disagree. Fine.
I am a designer. So I always look at a cars design to see what the designer has done and to see if they missed a trick, deliberately or by design.
They should have flared the arches on the e39 M5. I know the original idea for the m5 was to be a Q car, wolf in sheeps clothing etc and not be obvious. But by the time the e39 m5 came out it needed to differ completely from the normal 520i.
Bmw learned there lessons from feedback on the e36 m3. Many saying it lacked the aggressive look of the e30 m3. So the e46 m3 got flared arches so it stands out from the normal e46 range.
Just my opinion guys, so if you disagree. Fine.
PABLOESCOBAR said:
In response to power slide allow me to elaborate on one point I made. Design
I am a designer. So I always look at a cars design to see what the designer has done and to see if they missed a trick, deliberately or by design.
They should have flared the arches on the e39 M5. I know the original idea for the m5 was to be a Q car, wolf in sheeps clothing etc and not be obvious. But by the time the e39 m5 came out it needed to differ completely from the normal 520i.
Bmw learned there lessons from feedback on the e36 m3. Many saying it lacked the aggressive look of the e30 m3. So the e46 m3 got flared arches so it stands out from the normal e46 range.
Just my opinion guys, so if you disagree. Fine.
That's a reasonable opinion I just hate the swarm of knobheads that you attract on the road when you drive something that looks fast. Horses for courses I guess. They could always have left the 540i for the shy guys like me.I am a designer. So I always look at a cars design to see what the designer has done and to see if they missed a trick, deliberately or by design.
They should have flared the arches on the e39 M5. I know the original idea for the m5 was to be a Q car, wolf in sheeps clothing etc and not be obvious. But by the time the e39 m5 came out it needed to differ completely from the normal 520i.
Bmw learned there lessons from feedback on the e36 m3. Many saying it lacked the aggressive look of the e30 m3. So the e46 m3 got flared arches so it stands out from the normal e46 range.
Just my opinion guys, so if you disagree. Fine.
PABLO:
Q-car: should do exactly what it says on the tin.
Surely the E39 M5's external design cues already differentiate it enough from the rest of the range?
Q-car: should do exactly what it says on the tin.
Surely the E39 M5's external design cues already differentiate it enough from the rest of the range?
- Quad pipes*
- Front & Rear diffusers*
- Door mirrors*
- Boot spoiler*
- Staggered wheels*
PABLOESCOBAR said:
I am a designer.
They should have flared the arches on the e39 M5.
Do you work for Kahn Design?They should have flared the arches on the e39 M5.
Edited by Depthhoar on Sunday 24th December 16:57
PABLOESCOBAR said:
In response to power slide allow me to elaborate on one point I made. Design
I am a designer. So I always look at a cars design to see what the designer has done and to see if they missed a trick, deliberately or by design.
They should have flared the arches on the e39 M5. I know the original idea for the m5 was to be a Q car, wolf in sheeps clothing etc and not be obvious. But by the time the e39 m5 came out it needed to differ completely from the normal 520i.
Bmw learned there lessons from feedback on the e36 m3. Many saying it lacked the aggressive look of the e30 m3. So the e46 m3 got flared arches so it stands out from the normal e46 range.
Just my opinion guys, so if you disagree. Fine.
Seriously, as a designer, you think the E39 M5 needs flared arches?I am a designer. So I always look at a cars design to see what the designer has done and to see if they missed a trick, deliberately or by design.
They should have flared the arches on the e39 M5. I know the original idea for the m5 was to be a Q car, wolf in sheeps clothing etc and not be obvious. But by the time the e39 m5 came out it needed to differ completely from the normal 520i.
Bmw learned there lessons from feedback on the e36 m3. Many saying it lacked the aggressive look of the e30 m3. So the e46 m3 got flared arches so it stands out from the normal e46 range.
Just my opinion guys, so if you disagree. Fine.
One of the best moments in such a car is when you flash the lights on the motorway and the guy slides his car to the middle whilst simultaneously putting his foot down thinking he will get away.
From the exterior I don't think there is much I would change. The angel lights are fantastic and would love to have those and perhaps the standard 18s might better as 19s.
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