RE: Porsche 911 Carrera T revealed

[Evolved]

J-P said:

gr8jon said:

J-P said:

Apparently only 130 coming to the UK!

Really? My dealer didn't have that info...

Apparently - probably about right. Next gen 911 must be due soon-ish, so they can't make that many. I think it's a great idea, not sure I'd have banged on about the weight saving 20kg is hardly anything - putting one of my kids in the car would more than negate that. But the kit you get is pretty good and you can get stuff that you can't on a normal Carrera. On a 991.1, this would have been utterly epic! By the way most of the stuff that you don't get (when compared to a std Carrera) can be optioned back at no cost e.g. rear seats and infotainment system.

20kg is pityful really. I have dumps that weigh more so a big night on the curry would negate that

[patch5674]

Not sure why, but I have read through this entire thread, and I still have a bee in my bonnet by Porsche's claim that they are 'light weight cloth seats'.

This new fabric seat in the new 718's and base Carrera since the 991.2 is a pure cost cutting measure.

SportTex - also known and nylon and polyester. The same crap that Primark makes clothes out of.

[Fl0pp3r]

For me, the big question is will the T handle any better than a standard Carrera?

Carrera is on passives, T gets 20mm lower PASM - correct?
You can add RWS on the T, on the Carrera you may not.
20" wheels as standard on the T.
As others have said, the weight saving is minimal in reality so this probably won't have a great bearing on proceedings.

Do we know if Porsche's boffins have played with the suspension settings? Seems likely yes for a new model?

In which case, if/when Monkey Harris gives it a sideways shoe'ing ( - sorry, test) we may have some expectation that yet again Porsche will have created something that is greater than the sum of its parts (a little like the 996 C4S if you will).

At least I hope so anyway.

[Sine Metu]

It's nothing to do with driving. The cloth seats probably lean towards younger consumers who are turning against leather for environmental reasons. It lends that little retro touch for others. The light weight angle and new segment is essentially giving everyone who buys one a dog whistle message to send to those who notice these things. "Ah, you have one of the new lightweight driver focussed T's. So you're a bit of a purist driver then. Very interesting. There's a 911 for everyone with something to shout out about themselves."

[Sine Metu]

Fl0pp3r said:

In which case, if/when Monkey Harris gives it a sideways shoe'ing ( - sorry, test) we may have some expectation that yet again Porsche will have created something that is greater than the sum of its parts (a little like the 996 C4S if you will).

At least I hope so anyway.

The C4S is a decent looker but I don't think anyone would claim is is greater than the sum of it's parts. The opposite actually. The sum of it's parts make it heavier and slower.

[MartinRS2K]

Just spec'd this up and really liked it until I looked at the price

http://www.porsche-code.com/PJG7DBD8

£10-15k too expensive or at least it should have had the S engine and brakes fitted as standard.

[The Surveyor]

CABC said:

The Surveyor said:

VAG already sells quite a lot of TT roadsters which sits nicely in the segment below the Boxster, and I just can't see Porsche water-down their brand by chasing the MX5 market.

true.
i was thinking of a rwd driver's car. give it some proper dna and get buyers on the Porsche ownership ladder. Other brands start with a 1-series and end up with ranging-topping 8-series at well over 100k. Make it dinky enough so that everyone knows that a bigger 911 is the real deal, but with enough technical and driving dna to showcase why it drives better than a hot hatch.

Agree, but BMW has lost all its 'premium' credibility by flooding every single market sector with dull offerings. They used to be 'the ultimate driving machine', now they're just automotive white-goods. Porsche is still very much seen as a premium sports and supercar manufacturer, it would be a real shame if they lost that integrity chasing sales in cheaper segments IMHO.

Also to add, history shows that Porsche badged budget sports cars with their DNA diluted by other manufacturers input are unloved, thinking the 914 and the 924. Both worth buttons compared to their contemporary 911's.

Edited by The Surveyor on Wednesday 25th October 11:40

[Nerdherder]

Just 5k€ difference between the T and standard Carrera in my spec. Makes the T tempting indeed, precisely because of its shorter gearing. Ideally a shorter geared manual should be an option on all Porsches, but being in product management I can't fault their "packages as (model) variants" approach.

Edited by Nerdherder on Wednesday 25th October 11:30

[av185]

The Surveyor said:

Agree, but BMW has lost all its 'premium' credibility by flooding every single market sector with dull offerings. They used to be 'the ultimate driving machine', now they're just automotive white-goods. Porsche is still very much seen as a premium sports and supercar manufacturer, it would be a real shame if they lost that integrity chasing sales in cheaper segments IMHO.

Edited by The Surveyor on Wednesday 25th October 11:40

Agree on the past 'premium' car demise of BMW (Audi and Mercedes too). Trouble is, despite the ubiquitous increase of these three makes largely funded by the meteoric rise and access afforded by pcps and generation rent, they are still perceived by many as being premium despite every man and his dog having an invariably white one parked outside the Barratt noddybox.

Delusion is rife across all branding and markets.

Dilution can work.

Look at the typical hideous Evoque.....how many of the deluded driving these things seriously think they drive a proper Range Rover....

[Cheib]

ags11 said:

FocusRS3 said:

kbf1981 said:

Just specced up this and quite like it

http://www.porsche-code.com/PJ4ZCTS6

Personally I'd not want PDK but each to their own

Yeah, I'd tend to agree, the manual with the shorter ratio's has to be one of the usp's?

Yes....I really, really don't see the point of ordering a T with PDK. And I don't think your OPC would if ever you came to sell it.

[patch5674]

Sine Metu said:

It's nothing to do with driving. The cloth seats probably lean towards younger consumers who are turning against leather for environmental reasons. It lends that little retro touch for others.

If it was houndstooth cloth then totally would understand, but it isn't.

Whilst I know that manufacturers are now claiming youth don't want leather it is utter bks. Land Rover started making that claim with the Velar.


I just don't buy young environmentalists are going into Porsche (or Range Rover) for a 3 litre engined car then worrying about the environmental impact of leather.

It just reeks of cost cutting, it is not as if the starting price of the car has ben reduced.

I don't know why it winds me up. Rant over.

[MDL111]

patch5674 said:

Sine Metu said:

It's nothing to do with driving. The cloth seats probably lean towards younger consumers who are turning against leather for environmental reasons. It lends that little retro touch for others.

If it was houndstooth cloth then totally would understand, but it isn't.

Whilst I know that manufacturers are now claiming youth don't want leather it is utter bks. Land Rover started making that claim with the Velar.


I just don't buy young environmentalists are going into Porsche (or Range Rover) for a 3 litre engined car then worrying about the environmental impact of leather.

It just reeks of cost cutting, it is not as if the starting price of the car has ben reduced.

I don't know why it winds me up. Rant over.

I would prefer not having leather for environmental/animal cruelty reasons on a new car I buy - my cars do have leather but bought them used. If I specced a new one and they gave me a decent alcantara option, I would choose that

[Julian Thompson]

Mainly it would just be nice to be able to actually buy one. I remember when I was a kid in the 80’s and I used to take an interest in the cars my grandfather bought it seemed to me that it was all about the “waiting list” - ie you could have one but how long did you have to wait? Now you have to develop brand relationships even to get on the darned list in the first place! Is the 911T like the GT3 and other unicorns then - or is it accessible?

Edited by Julian Thompson on Wednesday 25th October 21:35

[Krobar]

CABC said:

Boxster is huge! shockingly wide when you see it in a parkng lot.
and expensive.
if they made a smaller Boxster (maybe on a vag production line) it would sell quite i think.

There was originally a plan for a VW branded mid engine down sized sports car based off of the 718 chassis and powertrain. It was going to run a 1.6 litre flat 4 turbo, a variant of the 718 engine too. Got canned years ago though.

[anonymous-user]

What's all this about entry Porsches being "expensive" and having "cloth seats"?

• Base cars at £43,000 arrive with 300 bhp, a brilliant mid-engine chassis and all the build quality of the more expensive cars.

• Base cars have seats covered with Alcantara and Leatherette. These man-made materials cannot realistically be described as cloth.

There is no roadgoing sportscar that can get within a country mile of Porsche at this level in the market. Performance bargain of the century.

[boringbeige]

Well I ordered one on Monday.

[kith]

boringbeige said:

Well I ordered one on Monday.

Nice. What spec have you gone for?

[shoestring7]

rockin said:

What's all this about entry Porsches being "expensive" and having "cloth seats"?

• Base cars at £43,000 arrive with 300 bhp, a brilliant mid-engine chassis and all the build quality of the more expensive cars.

• Base cars have seats covered with Alcantara and Leatherette. These man-made materials cannot realistically be described as cloth.

There is no roadgoing sportscar that can get within a country mile of Porsche at this level in the market. Performance bargain of the century.

A 1986 Porsche 924S was about £17,500 and didn't have power steering or aircon. That's £49,000 in 2017 pounds, or £55k if you add air and p/s.

SS7

[Diesel Meister]

shoestring7 said:

A 1986 Porsche 924S was about £17,500 and didn't have power steering or aircon. That's £49,000 in 2017 pounds, or £55k if you add air and p/s.

SS7

That is an interesting comparison.

I have no disagreement with any argument that, like for like, cars are arguably cheaper than they have ever been before. I think there more room for debate around the overall value proposition they present, but I suppose that even there one can argue "better" value on the basis that, on balance (albeit without any claim to authority on this point as it is purely an assumption on my part!), one ostensibly gets "more" (materials / tech / whatever) for one's money.

The thing is that "increased choice" for consumers does not necessarily mean a better experience for those consumers, no matter what corporations or statistics might say. If the offerings don't appeal, they don't, but no-one should be disqualified from venturing an opinion purely on the basis of not being the target market / being unable to afford them / whatever other flannel. That's just daft given that there is a point in everyone's existence where they are unable to drive legally, let alone own and run any car that you might in future aspire to - not much point in fora like PH if you must own a car to post about it, is there?

Porsche is a company that has clearly mastered the art of engineering and selling luxury (i.e. non-essential) vehicles of some objective merit. People buy or do not buy them for a variety of reasons. Some of us congregate on the internet to talk about those vehicles and that company (among others) and the people that may or may not buy those vehicles, occasionally in good humour, sometimes less so. Some of the foregoing is glib conjecture; some of it truth

[branaganharris]

Why on earth would you choose a tin-topped Boxster GT4 over a 911? the 991.2 Carrera T looks like a great purchase. Base 911 Carrera is all you need - this 991 Get 2 faster in its basic form that most of the 997.2 generation, You dont' need anything more.