ULEZ charge in 2021

[Killboy]

cb1965 said:

My post was intended as a bit of humour

[j_4m]

kev1974 said:

I can't see that they will put a camera at the end of every street (and throughout the zone), I too live about 200m inside the zone and I've checked and there are at least 13 different stty little side street routes through the residential rabbit warren, that I can take between where I park and the South Circular (i.e. outside the zone).

It will surely be a logistical, planning, and cost nightmare to cover all those roads with cameras and that's just one tiny part of the expanded ULEZ area, probably 0.1% of it.

I am sure there will be cameras here and there on major roads inside the expanded zone, but I imagine the majority of the enforcement will be with roving enforcement that is in a different street every day, either people on foot watching and logging moving cars, or those smart cars with cameras on top that some of the boroughs use to monitor banned turn offences.

Alternatively maybe a massive climbdown when TfL realise it's simply impossible to cost effectively enforce over such a large area, we will see.

The scheme is unpopular enough that hopefully cameras will be vandalised. I definitely won't lose sleep if I accidentally dispose of an unneeded can of paint over one.

[ZX10R NIN]

They have budgeted that the Cameras will cost 800 million most expect that figure to be nearer a billion just on the cameras, yet they say they can't repair Hammersmith Bridge which is actually causing more air pollution by being closed!

Mr Khan you have to think about the children & how every journey matters!

[Ar63]

Anyone know how enforcement works for residents in the congestion zone? I imagine the London-wide ulez would be a scaled up version of that.

Edit: found this nugget of information here

TFL said:

The LEZ covers the whole
of Greater London, within the M25. Significantly, unlike the Central
London Congestion Charging zone, it is not possible to have cameras on
every single entry and exit point, due to the sheer scale of the zone.

I expect it would exactly the same for ULEZ

Edited by Ar63 on Saturday 11th May 01:01

[lord trumpton]

Assuming the fines/charges would be levied via ID using ANPR I wonder if there wold be a rise in people sticking a pair of plates on that maybe are registered to a petrol equivalent?

ie someone owns a 520d, takes a look on Autotrader and picks a reg number of a 520i and gets a pair of plates made up.

Whenever they go into a city then the new plates are fitted?

Risky but I can see this happening

[croyde]

So will one be ok if you are just parked in the expanded ULEZ or only if there is not a camera pointed in that direction?

[NomduJour]

I can’t see how camera enforcement of every road on the perimeter could ever be practicable.

[R Mutt]

croyde said:

So will one be ok if you are just parked in the expanded ULEZ or only if there is not a camera pointed in that direction?

Absolutely fine as long as you never drive the car ever. I mean you'd have to be pretty damn sure you were taking a camera free route, and even then you'd not really notice if a new one was put up. Yeah I could via the back roads get to shops I'd walk to anyway, but unless I had say Google Maps programmed to avoid A2/ A20/ South Circular, while somehow being able to cross them without being caught, I'd be constantly stopping and doing U-turns after a few hundred yards. I await the 2021 expansion and the camera maps (although I'll have an electric car if miraculously I can afford to move somewhere I can plug it in)

Put like this I could convince myself that I should be walking or taking public transport anyway, but of the several 15-30 minute routes I regularly drive, I can only think of 2 of that wouldn't take upwards of an hour on public transport. IMO anything route taking more than twice as long on public transport v driving within Zone 2 is a massive disincentive to get out of your car.

Edited by R Mutt on Monday 13th May 15:30

[kev1974]

Figures for the first month of ULEZ are out.

But just vehicle counts, not actual figures on whether pollution has gone down, I can understand that you'd need to compare the same months from several years running to draw any meaningful conclusions there.

Interesting though that a high number of the polluting but exempt vehicles are black taxis, although by lumping them in together with "residents and disabled" they've done a good job of hiding how many polluting taxis it is that are being given a waiver.

It says that polluting vehicles were down on a year ago, but I'd imagine a large amount of that would be down to natural vehicle replacement anyway, rather than ULEZ itself.

[DaveCWK]

This may have been discussed already but are LPG converted cars exempt from the 2021 expanded ULEZ?

On the website:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone...
it says:
"You can choose to convert your vehicle to run on pure gas with a spark ignition, using an approved conversion."

Do they mean LPG, or literally gas i.e. CNG, or a big balloon on the top of the car, Dad's army WW2 style?
I'm also uncertain about the phrase 'Pure gas' - LPG cars start on petrol & often switch back under high load.

I have an elderly relation who will be caught up in this & has asked for my advice; they currently drive a 22 year old petrol Volvo estate & I'm trying to work out their best option as they ideally would like to keep the car.

[R Mutt]

DaveCWK said:

This may have been discussed already but are LPG converted cars exempt from the 2021 expanded ULEZ?

On the website:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone...
it says:
"You can choose to convert your vehicle to run on pure gas with a spark ignition, using an approved conversion."

Do they mean LPG, or literally gas i.e. CNG, or a big balloon on the top of the car, Dad's army WW2 style?
I'm also uncertain about the phrase 'Pure gas' - LPG cars start on petrol & often switch back under high load.

I have an elderly relation who will be caught up in this & has asked for my advice; they currently drive a 22 year old petrol Volvo estate & I'm trying to work out their best option as they ideally would like to keep the car.

Last I checked the website their arbitrary restrictions were even more arbitrarily based on manufactures (skewed) emissions figures. How will they know, even if the conversion is something registered with the DVLA?

[321boost]

You complain about congestion, pollution, speed etc therefore you deserve this. People deserve what they get.

I think they need to up their game, extra taxation is needed. I can’t wait till 90% of peoples wage goes into fines, taxes and hidden taxes

[NomduJour]

kev1974 said:

It says that polluting vehicles were down on a year ago, but I'd imagine a large amount of that would be down to natural vehicle replacement anyway, rather than ULEZ itself.

Natural attrition of cars in regular use will be a factor, but I’m sure the scheme will be hailed an enormous success just as soon as TfL get around to cleaning up the bus fleet (see the Wandsworth Council results for Putney High Street).

[2Btoo]

DaveCWK said:

This may have been discussed already but are LPG converted cars exempt from the 2021 expanded ULEZ?

On the website:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone...
it says:
"You can choose to convert your vehicle to run on pure gas with a spark ignition, using an approved conversion."

Do they mean LPG, or literally gas i.e. CNG, or a big balloon on the top of the car, Dad's army WW2 style?
I'm also uncertain about the phrase 'Pure gas' - LPG cars start on petrol & often switch back under high load.

I have an elderly relation who will be caught up in this & has asked for my advice; they currently drive a 22 year old petrol Volvo estate & I'm trying to work out their best option as they ideally would like to keep the car.

My understanding is that an LPG conversion doesn't change your ULEZ status. They initially said it would but later retracted this.

(I may be wrong.)

[kev1974]

2Btoo said:

DaveCWK said:

This may have been discussed already but are LPG converted cars exempt from the 2021 expanded ULEZ?

On the website:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone...
it says:
"You can choose to convert your vehicle to run on pure gas with a spark ignition, using an approved conversion."

Do they mean LPG, or literally gas i.e. CNG, or a big balloon on the top of the car, Dad's army WW2 style?
I'm also uncertain about the phrase 'Pure gas' - LPG cars start on petrol & often switch back under high load.

I have an elderly relation who will be caught up in this & has asked for my advice; they currently drive a 22 year old petrol Volvo estate & I'm trying to work out their best option as they ideally would like to keep the car.

My understanding is that an LPG conversion doesn't change your ULEZ status. They initially said it would but later retracted this.

(I may be wrong.)

And yet their requirements for new taxis going forward is only that they are theoretically capable of so many miles per day zero emissions. In practice they are allowed to run on petrol for part of the day. They have to, because by the time your typical cabbie has driven in from Gravesend etc, the battery is done.

So it seems incongruous to disallow a car that can run on LPG part of the day and petrol the rest.

[C70R]

cb1965 said:

My post was intended as a bit of humour re. the earlier exchanges on the transport infrastructure, try not to get so bent out of shape because someone had a joke at your city's expense! It makes you sound a bit Queen Gertrude!

Was it? Really?

Or was it the latest in a long series of negative tweets about London?

And then you decided to claim that the person was being "sensitive" because they disagreed with you?

Quite sad, really.

[C70R]

j_4m said:

The scheme is unpopular enough that hopefully cameras will be vandalised.

Is it?

The majority of Londoners (non-car owners) are completely unaffected.

The majority of people voted in favour of it during the consultation.

Remember, PH isn't like the real world. Not one bit.

[C70R]

321boost said:

You complain about congestion, pollution, speed etc therefore you deserve this. People deserve what they get.

I've complained about all of those, and I'm thrilled about the ULEZ.

[321boost]

C70R said:

I've complained about all of those, and I'm thrilled about the ULEZ.

I can tell you have.

And this is the kind of thing that gives you the thrills?

[j_4m]

C70R said:

Is it?

The majority of Londoners (non-car owners) are completely unaffected.

The majority of people voted in favour of it during the consultation.

Remember, PH isn't like the real world. Not one bit.

The consultation represented a tiny portion of Londoners, it is not unequivocal proof that the ULEZ is popular. I don't particularly give much truck to what PHers think, however chatting to my neighbours and London-based colleagues the most positive reaction is indifference where most are annoyed by the whole thing. The majority of cars parked in my area are non-compliant, whilst that doesn't represent a majority of people it's a significant chunk that will need to find some money for a new car or have a change in lifestyle pushed on them. For what? Air quality in residential areas is already nudging close to the WHO recommended level, with cars becoming less polluting over time there's absolutely no need to force people to upgrade early.