ULEZ charge in 2021

[A1ps]

monarodom said:

Mine is only Euro 2 it seems and makes the cut. Despite the 360g/km!

This is all so strange and annoying! I've emailed TFL asking for clarification!

[NomduJour]

There’s no magic - the TfL database is full of errors.

[lord trumpton]

Yet another reason I'm so glad not to live in fking London

[TwyRob]

A1ps said:

saaby93 said:

hats rubbish
Type in the reg number of say a 2001 elise and it comes up with ok

Yup. I phoned again to speak to someone else. I explained the entire scenario of typing in details of other 2001 vehicles and how a lot of them came up as being valid and not chargeable to the ULEZ. But this guy too was absolutely adamant that if a car is pre September 2005 it will be chargeable.

I want to hit my head against something to knock me out from all this pain!!!

Please just go through the process that I linked to. You will need a letter or certificate from Audi to prove it meets the levels (if indeed it does) instead of my Owner's Club letter.

There is no need to speak to a call centre operative who is probably reading from a limited script.

[ZX10R NIN]

Had the same thing with some clients that had bought Peugeot/Citroen with the diesel hybrid drivetrain, they were told their cars didn't comply with the ULEZ, after a letter from the Manufacturer's they're now classed as compliant.

[Bob Harper]

There is an awful lot of misinformation about the ULEZ.

In order for a petrol car to be ULEZ compliant it must conform to Euro 4 standards, but only in regards to its NOx output. CO, HC and PMs are irrelevant as far as the ULEZ is concerned for petrol cars. Your car doesn't have to be Euro 4... it could be Euro 3 (or even Euro 2 in a few cases) but it must not emit more NOx than Euro 4 levels. Euro 4 levels of NOx are 0.08g/km. By my rough calculations between two thirds and three quarters of all petrol-engined Euro 3 cars should be ULEZ compliant.

According to the Data freely available here: https://carfueldata.vehicle-certification-agency.g... the RS4 belonging to A1ps should be compliant as it has a NOx output of 0.068g/km.

What does it say on the second page of your V5C? Bottom left corner, section V, it should list Exhaust emissions. If the NOx is below 0.08g/km your car is compliant. Provide this evidence to TFL and it doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Failing that you will have to approach Audi for a certificate of conformity. It will cost (not sure how much in Audi's case) but it'd be worth doing to have your pride and joy exempt from the ULEZ.

[C70R]

A1ps said:

monarodom said:

Mine is only Euro 2 it seems and makes the cut. Despite the 360g/km!

This is all so strange and annoying! I've emailed TFL asking for clarification!

Nothing strange about it. CO2 emissions have almost nothing to do with ULEZ compliance.

It's ultimately a database system, which will inevitably have flaws. Data is incomplete, data has errors.

[DonkeyApple]

More pertinently it is a government database. This means that it will have been created by total idiots at £1000/day and won’t take into account any pre-existing databases as the people running the project won’t have understood that it has all been done before. It will be built and maintained in the most cackhanded, daft and inefficient way possible because almost everyone involved will be those too cackhanded, daft and inefficient to be employed in the real world.

[C70R]

DonkeyApple said:

More pertinently it is a government database. This means that it will have been created by total idiots at £1000/day and won’t take into account any pre-existing databases as the people running the project won’t have understood that it has all been done before. It will be built and maintained in the most cackhanded, daft and inefficient way possible because almost everyone involved will be those too cackhanded, daft and inefficient to be employed in the real world.

Ever it was thus, sadly.

Those who fail in the private sector tend to end up doing Govt contracts.

[RSpiston]

Just came across this thread..

I have an RS4 B5, registered 30/4/01.

Showing as compliant :

" Blue AUDI RS4 QUATTRO

No ULEZ charge due for this vehicle
This vehicle meets the emission standards for ULEZ so you don't have to pay this charge when driving within the zone. "

But..it is wearing a private plate now ( originally on a Y plate ). Perhaps that is the answer - put a private plate on yours Alps ?!

[saaby93]

database error = human error

Remiscent of the DVLA gov website and the speed limit rules for a car based van vs a van based car

[AC43]

DonkeyApple said:

Gooly said:

It still bothers me that ULEZ hasn't been extended to black cabs, which are belching around with some pretty shockingly low-tech diesel motors in some cases. As much as I'm sad that ULEZ means no more 80s / 90s petrol stuff in London, it's ultimately a good thing but I hope at some point part of the levy can fund a scrappage scheme for old black cabs which seem the spend the majority of their time idling in Soho stinking up the whole place.

Would also be nice if they could arrange a provision for Jap imports, which seem to be charged regardless of their year or emissions. A 2004 350z is ULEZ exempt, yet the Japan-only 4-seat version with the same engine, chassis and emissions tech isn't...

Also as far as that analysis of TFL's report goes, that does nothing to prove the claim that TFL are deliberately engineering traffic. Pushing traffic out of suburban roads onto trunk roads has long been TFL's game and has many good justifications for doing so that go beyond emissions. Play streets, noise and safety among other things.

As far as delivery vans go, not much is going to change without A) massive new strategic warehouses which allow hyper-local distribution or B) some sort of nationalised delivery network stepping in to reduce half-empty private vans driving around. If only we had a service that could do so...

Edited by Gooly on Monday 25th November 11:53

The black cabs are all being changed. They have long ago reached an agreement between TFL and the union as to the rate of change etc.

But if consumers don’t want the stinky old black cabs then they can all do what I do and and put their arm down if the next cab with a yellow light is an old knackered one.

I think a lot of Londoners do make that selection as the bulk of the really old rattlers give the appearance of plying their trade from tourist hotspots.

I did that exact thing a couple of weeks ago at Paddington station. Managed to duck all the clattery soot chuckers and get in a brand new leccie one. Utter fkin bliss.

This morning I walked past the cab rank at Fenchurch St. All the taxis were diesels all were idling and it stank. Rank. An appropriate designation.

[Macron]

Bob Harper said:

There is an awful lot of misinformation about the ULEZ.

In order for a petrol car to be ULEZ compliant it must conform to Euro 4 standards, but only in regards to its NOx output. CO, HC and PMs are irrelevant as far as the ULEZ is concerned for petrol cars. Your car doesn't have to be Euro 4... it could be Euro 3 (or even Euro 2 in a few cases) but it must not emit more NOx than Euro 4 levels. Euro 4 levels of NOx are 0.08g/km. By my rough calculations between two thirds and three quarters of all petrol-engined Euro 3 cars should be ULEZ compliant.

According to the Data freely available here: https://carfueldata.vehicle-certification-agency.g... the RS4 belonging to A1ps should be compliant as it has a NOx output of 0.068g/km.

What does it say on the second page of your V5C? Bottom left corner, section V, it should list Exhaust emissions. If the NOx is below 0.08g/km your car is compliant. Provide this evidence to TFL and it doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Failing that you will have to approach Audi for a certificate of conformity. It will cost (not sure how much in Audi's case) but it'd be worth doing to have your pride and joy exempt from the ULEZ.

You've also added misinformation.

The 0.08g/km you reference is for Diesel Euro 6 compliance.

For petrol it's 0.06g/km.

Thus an RS4 with a petrol engine producing 0.068g/km is NOT compliant.


See table 1 against NOX here: https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publicatio...

and more easily summarised here: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/euro-...

[Bob Harper]

Macron said:

Bob Harper said:

There is an awful lot of misinformation about the ULEZ.

In order for a petrol car to be ULEZ compliant it must conform to Euro 4 standards, but only in regards to its NOx output. CO, HC and PMs are irrelevant as far as the ULEZ is concerned for petrol cars. Your car doesn't have to be Euro 4... it could be Euro 3 (or even Euro 2 in a few cases) but it must not emit more NOx than Euro 4 levels. Euro 4 levels of NOx are 0.08g/km. By my rough calculations between two thirds and three quarters of all petrol-engined Euro 3 cars should be ULEZ compliant.

According to the Data freely available here: https://carfueldata.vehicle-certification-agency.g... the RS4 belonging to A1ps should be compliant as it has a NOx output of 0.068g/km.

What does it say on the second page of your V5C? Bottom left corner, section V, it should list Exhaust emissions. If the NOx is below 0.08g/km your car is compliant. Provide this evidence to TFL and it doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Failing that you will have to approach Audi for a certificate of conformity. It will cost (not sure how much in Audi's case) but it'd be worth doing to have your pride and joy exempt from the ULEZ.

You've also added misinformation.

The 0.08g/km you reference is for Diesel Euro 6 compliance.

For petrol it's 0.06g/km.

Thus an RS4 with a petrol engine producing 0.068g/km is NOT compliant.


See table 1 against NOX here: https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publicatio...

and more easily summarised here: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/euro-...

No, I believe I am correct.

See here: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emissio... for the required ULEZ emissions standards. "Euro 4 (NOx) for petrol cars, vans, minibuses and other specialist vehicles"

From the RAC page you linked to Euro 4 emissions standards for petrol cars: "NOx: 0.08g/km"

You are correct that Euro 6 petrol engined emissions are 0.06g/km, but your petrol-engined car doesn't need to be Euro 6 to avoid ULEZ. It needs to be Euro 4 equivalent with regards to its NOx emissions.

[C70R]

Bob Harper said:

Macron said:

Bob Harper said:

There is an awful lot of misinformation about the ULEZ.

In order for a petrol car to be ULEZ compliant it must conform to Euro 4 standards, but only in regards to its NOx output. CO, HC and PMs are irrelevant as far as the ULEZ is concerned for petrol cars. Your car doesn't have to be Euro 4... it could be Euro 3 (or even Euro 2 in a few cases) but it must not emit more NOx than Euro 4 levels. Euro 4 levels of NOx are 0.08g/km. By my rough calculations between two thirds and three quarters of all petrol-engined Euro 3 cars should be ULEZ compliant.

According to the Data freely available here: https://carfueldata.vehicle-certification-agency.g... the RS4 belonging to A1ps should be compliant as it has a NOx output of 0.068g/km.

What does it say on the second page of your V5C? Bottom left corner, section V, it should list Exhaust emissions. If the NOx is below 0.08g/km your car is compliant. Provide this evidence to TFL and it doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Failing that you will have to approach Audi for a certificate of conformity. It will cost (not sure how much in Audi's case) but it'd be worth doing to have your pride and joy exempt from the ULEZ.

You've also added misinformation.

The 0.08g/km you reference is for Diesel Euro 6 compliance.

For petrol it's 0.06g/km.

Thus an RS4 with a petrol engine producing 0.068g/km is NOT compliant.


See table 1 against NOX here: https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publicatio...

and more easily summarised here: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/euro-...

No, I believe I am correct.

See here: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emissio... for the required ULEZ emissions standards. "Euro 4 (NOx) for petrol cars, vans, minibuses and other specialist vehicles"

From the RAC page you linked to Euro 4 emissions standards for petrol cars: "NOx: 0.08g/km"

You are correct that Euro 6 petrol engined emissions are 0.06g/km, but your petrol-engined car doesn't need to be Euro 6 to avoid ULEZ. It needs to be Euro 4 equivalent with regards to its NOx emissions.

This is correct.

Euro 6 for diesel, Euro 4 for petrol. The levels of emissions at each standard are different for petrol/diesel.

[NomduJour]

Confusion being that there’s no formal categorisation for NOx emissions separate from Euro emissions status.

[A1ps]

Hi guys, apologies for not replying sooner. For some reason PH wouldn’t allow me to post.

Thanks for all the replies. Alas, I’m still as confused as ever with this lark.

Will my V5 document show the euro 3/4 status?

[mgv8]

Gooly said:

It still bothers me that ULEZ hasn't been extended to black cabs, which are belching around with some pretty shockingly low-tech diesel motors in some cases. As much as I'm sad that ULEZ means no more 80s / 90s petrol stuff in London, it's ultimately a good thing but I hope at some point part of the levy can fund a scrappage scheme for old black cabs which seem to spend the majority of their time idling in Soho stinking up the whole place.

Would also be nice if they could arrange a provision for Jap imports, which seem to be charged regardless of their year or emissions. A 2004 350z is ULEZ exempt, yet the Japan-only 4-seat version with the same engine, chassis and emissions tech isn't...

Also as far as that analysis of TFL's report goes, that does nothing to prove the claim that TFL are deliberately engineering traffic. Pushing traffic out of suburban roads onto trunk roads has long been TFL's game and has many good justifications for doing so that go beyond emissions. Play streets, noise and safety among other things.

As far as delivery vans go, not much is going to change without A) massive new strategic warehouses which allow hyper-local distribution or B) some sort of nationalised delivery network stepping in to reduce half-empty private vans driving around. If only we had a service that could do so...

Edited by Gooly on Monday 25th November 12:19

"London is facing an air quality crisis with filthy fumes reducing the length and quality of life in the capital. Black cabs are exempt from the Ultra Low Emission Zone, but they cause 20 per cent of road transport emissions in central London, and this is expected to grow further this year unless action is taken. TfL’s proposals aim to address this by reducing taxi-based NOx emissions by 65 per cent by 2025.

They include:

A tightening of the rules so that taxis cannot be licensed beyond their 15th anniversary, rather than being able to operate for up to a full 16th year
A phased reduction in the age limit for the most polluting taxis to 12 years by 2022 by decreasing the current 15-year limit each year, by a year, from 2020
Removing the automatic age limit exemptions for alternative fuel conversions, historic vehicles or personal circumstances"

[A1ps]

Hi guys, apologies for not replying sooner. For some reason PH wouldn’t allow me to post.

Thanks for all the replies. Alas, I’m still as confused as ever with this lark.

Will my V5 document show the euro 3/4 status?


Edit: I spoke.with Audi UK today. They confirmed my car is definitely Euro 3. I gave them a registration of a friends RS4 B5. That came up.as a euro 2!!!

Man I'm confused!!

Edited by A1ps on Thursday 28th November 19:07

[NomduJour]

There are two versions of B5 RS4 engines - the 2000 one (ASJ code) was Euro 2; later 2000-2001 engines (AZR code) were Euro 3. It’s NOx you’re interested in for ULEZ purposes.