ULEZ charge in 2021

[jfire]

Fuel duty isn't going to City Hall anyway. They blame crime on government cuts then boast about boosting Met funding, while they're raking in billions from motorists.

[Toltec]

Tebbers said:

Whatever you do, the state will take more money from you. Ultimately you can’t win.

FTFY

[jfire]

We're all forgetting rigged emissions figures anyway. Should've bought German!

[DonkeyApple]

Tebbers said:

On behalf of the Chancellor, thank you for filling the nation’s coffers with fuel excise duty

Whatever you do, the state will take more money from you. Ultimately you can’t win except by going green.

Isn’t it more to do with the fact that it is going to cost you money regardless as you have to buy a different car or pay the daily charge so it boils down to which replacement car gives you more fun and rewards.

[The Selfish Gene]

it boils down to that ^^^ and the fact I won't be told what to do by some corrupt cheating scumbags.

I shall find a way to beat this as I do everything else that I don't agree with.

That is a 40 year old big block V8 or possibly something with more finesse like a 928 V8

whatever happens - I will not be driving some hair dryer around London.

[croyde]

Every time I get a PCN from my council, I just put my recycling in my main rubbish bin for a week or so.

Sticking it to the man.

[Sam993]

swisstoni said:

I have a Lexus hybrid and the engine is running at least 90% of the time.

Total time or time when you move?

[swisstoni]

Sam993 said:

swisstoni said:

I have a Lexus hybrid and the engine is running at least 90% of the time.

Total time or time when you move?

When moving. Although it will kick in when stationary after few mins.

[Sam993]

jfire said:

Yes, the most polluting vehicles are those that aren't actually moving, such as busses or those stuck behind busses, or at traffic lights when there's no other traffic.

Has anyone done a study on optimum travel efficiency in relation to traffic light timing? Most of my 5 minute walk to the station is spent waiting to cross both sides of the road, then a bus lane in the station.

It's a well known fact (after years of denial, I remember there was a lot of uproar about it around 2009/2010) that UK doesn't use green wave because it reduces tax revenue from fuel burnt in stop-go traffic. Nothing has changed since as far I can see, which is quite hypocritical.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7998182.stm

[Sam993]

swisstoni said:

Sam993 said:

swisstoni said:

I have a Lexus hybrid and the engine is running at least 90% of the time.

Total time or time when you move?

When moving. Although it will kick in when stationary after few mins.

That's surprising, which model is it and what fuel mileage do you get? My gen 3 Toyota is fairly economical in London traffic and I see engine running around 60% of the time, sometimes less sometimes more (especially during winter).

[swisstoni]

Sam993 said:

swisstoni said:

Sam993 said:

swisstoni said:

I have a Lexus hybrid and the engine is running at least 90% of the time.

Total time or time when you move?

When moving. Although it will kick in when stationary after few mins.

That's surprising, which model is it and what fuel mileage do you get? My gen 3 Toyota is fairly economical in London traffic and I see engine running around 60% of the time, sometimes less sometimes more (especially during winter).

RX450h. Low 30s mpg if I recall. Tootles around in town traffic most of the time.

[MaxSo]

Sam993 said:

jfire said:

Yes, the most polluting vehicles are those that aren't actually moving, such as busses or those stuck behind busses, or at traffic lights when there's no other traffic.

Has anyone done a study on optimum travel efficiency in relation to traffic light timing? Most of my 5 minute walk to the station is spent waiting to cross both sides of the road, then a bus lane in the station.

It's a well known fact (after years of denial, I remember there was a lot of uproar about it around 2009/2010) that UK doesn't use green wave because it reduces tax revenue from fuel burnt in stop-go traffic. Nothing has changed since as far I can see, which is quite hypocritical.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7998182.stm

Wow, that is (was?) utter madness! Yet another example of the idiotic short-termism and short-sightedness of governments.

They didn't think that perhaps there were other external costs associated with the additional pollution and the extra time spent in traffic; costs which must surely far outweigh any extra tax revenue?? Nuts!

[gavsdavs]

swisstoni said:

I have a Lexus hybrid and the engine is running at least 90% of the time. Virtually pointless having the battery and associated gubbins IMHO.
I have a feeling that the countless hammered Uber Priuses dodging around in the center may be even worse.

There needs to be a minimum standard for Hybrid efficiency in the ULEZ if there isn’t one already.

I have a 2008 rx400h and it's more economic in London than it is outside of the city at higher speeds when it drinks like a fish as it's the weight of a small house.
In the city the engine wakes up now and again but it's only occasionally using more than tickover. I think importantly, when it's stationary, the engine is always off.

[DonkeyApple]

swisstoni said:

Sam993 said:

swisstoni said:

I have a Lexus hybrid and the engine is running at least 90% of the time.

Total time or time when you move?

When moving. Although it will kick in when stationary after few mins.

In a decade when everyone has paid to move from diesel to hybrids this will be the next scandal, that hybrids which live in the pure urban environment aren’t polluting any less than a plain ICE. My neighbour had a Lexus SUV hybrid and said the only time it’s on electric is when parking up. It’s the same with the Prius minicabs as they never get a proper run to charge back up.

[Sam993]

swisstoni said:

Sam993 said:

swisstoni said:

Sam993 said:

swisstoni said:

I have a Lexus hybrid and the engine is running at least 90% of the time.

Total time or time when you move?

When moving. Although it will kick in when stationary after few mins.

That's surprising, which model is it and what fuel mileage do you get? My gen 3 Toyota is fairly economical in London traffic and I see engine running around 60% of the time, sometimes less sometimes more (especially during winter).

RX450h. Low 30s mpg if I recall. Tootles around in town traffic most of the time.

Ah yeah, I thought that will be the car to be honest! The problem is that your car has a massive engine, it's heavy and has a battery that is not that much larger in capacity than a gen 3 hybrid that is much lighter and has a 1.8 4 banger. I never understood why Toyota don't put a battery that is at least 2x bigger. On the other hand if that petrol engine run without hybrid support you'd be lucky to get into 20's in London (from personal experience with big engined cars in mental traffic).

[Sam993]

DonkeyApple said:

swisstoni said:

Sam993 said:

swisstoni said:

I have a Lexus hybrid and the engine is running at least 90% of the time.

Total time or time when you move?

When moving. Although it will kick in when stationary after few mins.

In a decade when everyone has paid to move from diesel to hybrids this will be the next scandal, that hybrids which live in the pure urban environment aren’t polluting any less than a plain ICE. My neighbour had a Lexus SUV hybrid and said the only time it’s on electric is when parking up. It’s the same with the Prius minicabs as they never get a proper run to charge back up.

That's technically not true and comparing a huge Lexus SUV with much smaller and lighter hatchback never makes sense, regardless if it was hybrid, diesel or na petrol. Toyota made Prius work very well, gen 4 is insanely efficient around town and recuperation manages to charge back to almost full even in London. A heavy SUV hybrid like Lexus RX or even NX or Rav 4 will never achieve same fuel economy (here you could make an argument that these are similarly missold as green cars as diesels, without all that NOx and particle crap).

[snowandrocks]

DonkeyApple said:

In a decade when everyone has paid to move from diesel to hybrids this will be the next scandal, that hybrids which live in the pure urban environment aren’t polluting any less than a plain ICE. My neighbour had a Lexus SUV hybrid and said the only time it’s on electric is when parking up. It’s the same with the Prius minicabs as they never get a proper run to charge back up.

I think you’re missing the point - the efficiency of a hybrid comes from it’s ability to capture energy that would otherwise be lost in braking and then using it later to assist the ICE.

Low 30’s mpg around town in a large 4x4 with a 3.5 v6 is spectacularly good - as are the equivalent figures for the Prius. A friend runs a few as minicabs and they return figures into the 70’s. Everything else he runs (diesel Skodas mainly) achieve mid 40’s doing the same job.

[MJ85]

Standard RX300, non-hybrid... I used to get 19 MPG with mixed driving, not just town. Those figures are much, much better.

[jfire]

MaxSo said:

Wow, that is (was?) utter madness! Yet another example of the idiotic short-termism and short-sightedness of governments.

They didn't think that perhaps there were other external costs associated with the additional pollution and the extra time spent in traffic; costs which must surely far outweigh any extra tax revenue?? Nuts!

I'm not entirely sure the more efficient system is actually used now. I drove through London to Luton Airport at 3am and despite being zero traffic, the 15 miles from south to north London took twice as long as the 30 up the M1. Funnily enough that wasn't achieved by a clear 30mph run and 120 mph on the motorway.

[DonkeyApple]

jfire said:

MaxSo said:

Wow, that is (was?) utter madness! Yet another example of the idiotic short-termism and short-sightedness of governments.

They didn't think that perhaps there were other external costs associated with the additional pollution and the extra time spent in traffic; costs which must surely far outweigh any extra tax revenue?? Nuts!

I'm not entirely sure the more efficient system is actually used now. I drove through London to Luton Airport at 3am and despite being zero traffic, the 15 miles from south to north London took twice as long as the 30 up the M1. Funnily enough that wasn't achieved by a clear 30mph run and 120 mph on the motorway.

In the build up to the introduction of the original CC zone I was commuting by car daily. I destinctly recall my route into the City gaining 10 minutes almost overnight as suddenly much more time was spent queuing at traffic lights. The lights at Mount Pleasant would remain green for over 60 seconds prior and then suddenly it was about half that. I noticed the same at other junctions. To this day I am still convinced that the phasing of lights at key junctions was altered to create congestion so as to prove the CC was needed. Overnight my commute time increased nearly 30%.