ULEZ charge in 2021

[Guvernator]

In my line I get to meet people from all over the world, people from Europe, Africa, Australia, New Zealand etc and most of them choose to settle in London. OK the job availability situation is a BIG factor but most often say they wouldn't live anywhere else in the UK for exactly the reasons stated above.

It's one of the greatest cities in the world which is why people come here from literally all over the world to visit, work or live and yet on here there seems to be this almost inverse snobbishness to try to proclaim it's like some post apocalyptic cesspit with people dying to escape from it's clutches.

[NickGibbs]

NomduJour said:

ULEZ is purely political - it plays directly to Khan’s target voters.

Woah, so you're saying... democracy works?

[C70R]

Guvernator said:

In my line I get to meet people from all over the world, people from Europe, Africa, Australia, New Zealand etc and most of them choose to settle in London. OK the job availability situation is a BIG factor but most often say they wouldn't live anywhere else in the UK for exactly the reasons stated above.

It's one of the greatest cities in the world which is why people come here from literally all over the world to visit, work or live and yet on here there seems to be this almost inverse snobbishness to try to proclaim it's like some post apocalyptic cesspit with people dying to escape from it's clutches.

Agreed.
Generally those people who are so negative about it fall into one of the following groups:

• Can't afford it
• Don't like multiculturalism
• Don't like cheek-by-cheek living with rich and poor
• Don't like change
• Don't have many cultural interests

[DonkeyApple]

C70R said:

DonkeyApple said:

As an aside, you only need to view posts on PH to see that there are large numbers of posters who work in London and hate it and would relish the opportunity to do the same mid level job back where they came from.

Let's not pretend for a moment that PH is in any way representative of the real world...

I try desperately to pretend it isn’t but there’s always that nagging doubt that maybe the real world is a bunch of angry, intolerant blokes who haven’t saved enough in the pension.

[DonkeyApple]

Guvernator said:

In my line I get to meet people from all over the world, people from Europe, Africa, Australia, New Zealand etc and most of them choose to settle in London. OK the job availability situation is a BIG factor but most often say they wouldn't live anywhere else in the UK for exactly the reasons stated above.

It's one of the greatest cities in the world which is why people come here from literally all over the world to visit, work or live and yet on here there seems to be this almost inverse snobbishness to try to proclaim it's like some post apocalyptic cesspit with people dying to escape from it's clutches.

Overseas migrants tend to have a more honest perspective but internal migrants out number them.

[anonymous-user]

Killboy said:

cb1965 said:

And what percentage of the 13% who 'choose' to live there do you think can afford to fully enjoy the most varied and extensive entertainment and cultural opportunities? Take your head out of your arse and realise that London may be a dream for some, but it's a nightmare for others like the people you step over on the way to the theatres, museums, restaurants and clubs or those stuck in poverty in the conveniently forgotten virtual slums that somehow never seem to be featured on any of the brochures proclaiming the wonderful world city that London is!

Shesh, how bad must outside London be for these people not to move out?

As always you've missed the point.

[AC43]

We're going off topic here but for the record I'm an internal migrant who came to London for the jobs and the fun a very long time ago and who still very much likes being here. Having said that I really do not like the recent rise in diesel fumes. It's horribly reminiscent of he late 80's when it was all leaded petrol and unburnt hydrocarbons hanging in the air.

And I've no idea where my kids will live if they want to work here. Milton Keynes? Peterborough? People these days do some insane commutes.

[anonymous-user]

C70R said:

I don't know why this idea of "London entertainment" seems to be limited to the theatre or museums... There are so many other fantastic things available in London that you simply can't find together in as much variety and quality anywhere else in the UK, that you'd need to be simple not to see the appeal. Londoners are, by nature, very discerning with where they choose to spend their cash - ergo, places which don't cut the mustard seldom prosper.

I'm not going to debate the rest of your 'one man I love London' crusade as I can't be arsed with you frankly, but this is the single biggest lie I've seen on this thread. London has a large number of overly expensive less than satisfying entertainment establishments including bars and restaurants that get away with it thanks to the tourism and for no other reason. Trip Advisor published stats a few years ago that actually pointed this out and when several well known London chains attempted to move north in the early 2000s they got burned as people in the north of England will not buy expensive ste!

[jfire]

cb1965 said:

I'm not going to debate the rest of your 'one man I love London' crusade as I can't be arsed with you frankly, but this is the single biggest lie I've seen on this thread. London has a large number of overly expensive less than satisfying entertainment establishments including bars and restaurants that get away with it thanks to the tourism and for no other reason. Trip Advisor published stats a few years ago that actually pointed this out and when several well known London chains attempted to move north in the early 2000s they got burned as people in the north of England will not buy expensive ste!

I'm a staunch Londoner but I agree that establishments can largely charge a premium for substandard food because everyone else is doing it.

Pub grub being the trend setter. You can pay 15 quid for a Sunday roast in an average boozer, and microwaved main course can set you back a tenner in your local, or in one of the high-street chains.

[Killboy]

cb1965 said:

Killboy said:

cb1965 said:

And what percentage of the 13% who 'choose' to live there do you think can afford to fully enjoy the most varied and extensive entertainment and cultural opportunities? Take your head out of your arse and realise that London may be a dream for some, but it's a nightmare for others like the people you step over on the way to the theatres, museums, restaurants and clubs or those stuck in poverty in the conveniently forgotten virtual slums that somehow never seem to be featured on any of the brochures proclaiming the wonderful world city that London is!

Shesh, how bad must outside London be for these people not to move out?

As always you've missed the point.

Yeah, because its st, as usual

[Killboy]

cb1965 said:

I'm not going to debate the rest of your 'one man I love London' crusade as I can't be arsed with you frankly, but this is the single biggest lie I've seen on this thread. London has a large number of overly expensive less than satisfying entertainment establishments including bars and restaurants that get away with it thanks to the tourism and for no other reason. Trip Advisor published stats a few years ago that actually pointed this out and when several well known London chains attempted to move north in the early 2000s they got burned as people in the north of England will not buy expensive ste!

Sigh, lets look at these stats please. Do you have the link? Which establishments are we talking about?

Surely you not saying tourist traps charging silly prices for substandard food is a London thing?

All I know is I'm going for a dinner tonight that will be better than anything you going to get in your town

[kev1974]

egor110 said:

This varied extensive entertainment isn’t solely for London residents.

If a bands playing in London I’ll just catch the train up to London plus realistically how often do people actually go to gigs or the theatre per month to make it worth living in London?

I go to the theatre in London almost every week Even so, I expect I spend far less on it than others do on their football or pub etc. There are so many theatres (in all the world only New York comes close in terms of variety of venues/shows available) that there are always offers and discounts and even ways to see a lot for free.

There are plenty of great theatres in other UK towns and cities (I always check out what they've got on when I go somewhere outside London), many of which like Sheffield or Theatr Clwyd in North Wales that do germinate the shows that end up running for months in London. And spectacular theatre venues such as the Minack in Cornwall. But nowhere has the massive variety as London. We also have three world class opera houses in London (Covent Garden, Sadlers Wells, and most of the year, the Coliseum), performing ballet or opera almost every night; I don't know anywhere else in the world that matches that, maybe Paris, but New York, Milan etc don't. It must be said though that this is becoming less important with the amount of theatre, opera and ballet being broadcast to regional cinemas these days.

[anonymous-user]

Killboy said:

All I know is I'm going for a dinner tonight that will be better than anything you going to get in your town

You don't know that though do you, but you think you do and that is where the problem lies!

[anonymous-user]

jfire said:

cb1965 said:

I'm not going to debate the rest of your 'one man I love London' crusade as I can't be arsed with you frankly, but this is the single biggest lie I've seen on this thread. London has a large number of overly expensive less than satisfying entertainment establishments including bars and restaurants that get away with it thanks to the tourism and for no other reason. Trip Advisor published stats a few years ago that actually pointed this out and when several well known London chains attempted to move north in the early 2000s they got burned as people in the north of England will not buy expensive ste!

I'm a staunch Londoner but I agree that establishments can largely charge a premium for substandard food because everyone else is doing it.

Pub grub being the trend setter. You can pay 15 quid for a Sunday roast in an average boozer, and microwaved main course can set you back a tenner in your local, or in one of the high-street chains.

Don't get me wrong, London has some of the top restaurants in Europe, but it has a lot of dross (in a lot of cases expensive dross) too, more than most places as it has more tourism than most places and can get away with it! This notion that Londoners won't put up with average fayre is just not true as a lot of the time that's all they can get or afford. I'm sure if a lot of them visited Leeds or Manchester or Liverpool they'd very quickly realise how much better the average restaurant is in those cities (and how much better value they are) compared to London all other things being equal.

[C70R]

cb1965 said:

C70R said:

I don't know why this idea of "London entertainment" seems to be limited to the theatre or museums... There are so many other fantastic things available in London that you simply can't find together in as much variety and quality anywhere else in the UK, that you'd need to be simple not to see the appeal. Londoners are, by nature, very discerning with where they choose to spend their cash - ergo, places which don't cut the mustard seldom prosper.

I'm not going to debate the rest of your 'one man I love London' crusade as I can't be arsed with you frankly, but this is the single biggest lie I've seen on this thread. London has a large number of overly expensive less than satisfying entertainment establishments including bars and restaurants that get away with it thanks to the tourism and for no other reason. Trip Advisor published stats a few years ago that actually pointed this out and when several well known London chains attempted to move north in the early 2000s they got burned as people in the north of England will not buy expensive ste!

Your inferiority complex is very sad. I'd suggest that talking to a professional may help you remove that horrific chip from your shoulder. My "one man" crusade is actually an "8.8 million man" crusade, and growing. You might want to consider the fact, amid your frothing rage, that you're in a minority in your view.

Goods and services in London are obviously more expensive than "the north of England", simply because the cost of operating is significantly greater. The choice and quality of restaurant in London is significantly higher than anywhere else in the UK - you'd need to have your rose-tinted, parochial glasses on (and ignore every restaurant guide/listing in existence) to think anything else.

[C70R]

cb1965 said:

jfire said:

cb1965 said:

I'm not going to debate the rest of your 'one man I love London' crusade as I can't be arsed with you frankly, but this is the single biggest lie I've seen on this thread. London has a large number of overly expensive less than satisfying entertainment establishments including bars and restaurants that get away with it thanks to the tourism and for no other reason. Trip Advisor published stats a few years ago that actually pointed this out and when several well known London chains attempted to move north in the early 2000s they got burned as people in the north of England will not buy expensive ste!

I'm a staunch Londoner but I agree that establishments can largely charge a premium for substandard food because everyone else is doing it.

Pub grub being the trend setter. You can pay 15 quid for a Sunday roast in an average boozer, and microwaved main course can set you back a tenner in your local, or in one of the high-street chains.

Don't get me wrong, London has some of the top restaurants in Europe, but it has a lot of dross (in a lot of cases expensive dross) too, more than most places as it has more tourism than most places and can get away with it! This notion that Londoners won't put up with average fayre is just not true as a lot of the time that's all they can get or afford. I'm sure if a lot of them visited Leeds or Manchester or Liverpool they'd very quickly realise how much better the average restaurant is in those cities (and how much better value they are) compared to London all other things being equal.

You need to stop thinking about London as just Covent Garden and Leicester Square. That's a very narrow view.
Of course trash exists in these areas - as it does in tourist hotspots all over the world. Where you find great London restaurants are in the places where real Londoners live and work (like Hackney, Brixton, Tooting, Wimbledon, Peckham).

Also, having been to Leeds and Liverpool (and Manchester) recently, I'd say that while they all had merits none was a patch on London for quality, choice and variety. And, with wages generally being lower in the North, there was a significantly greater proportion of dross at the middle/bottom end of the value chain.

[C70R]

Anyway, now that you have done your usual job of reducing any thread about London to the chip on your shoulder, perhaps we should return to the discussion about the ULEZ?

[valiant]

Any chance of getting back to even remotely near the thread topic and away from the usual London bashing please.

[NomduJour]

If you lack any ability to discern whatsoever, you deserve to be ripped off by joining the hordes in Pizza Hut on the Strand etc.

Not sure that this changes anything about the ULEZ though.

[anonymous-user]

C70R said:

cb1965 said:

jfire said:

cb1965 said:

I'm not going to debate the rest of your 'one man I love London' crusade as I can't be arsed with you frankly, but this is the single biggest lie I've seen on this thread. London has a large number of overly expensive less than satisfying entertainment establishments including bars and restaurants that get away with it thanks to the tourism and for no other reason. Trip Advisor published stats a few years ago that actually pointed this out and when several well known London chains attempted to move north in the early 2000s they got burned as people in the north of England will not buy expensive ste!

I'm a staunch Londoner but I agree that establishments can largely charge a premium for substandard food because everyone else is doing it.

Pub grub being the trend setter. You can pay 15 quid for a Sunday roast in an average boozer, and microwaved main course can set you back a tenner in your local, or in one of the high-street chains.

Don't get me wrong, London has some of the top restaurants in Europe, but it has a lot of dross (in a lot of cases expensive dross) too, more than most places as it has more tourism than most places and can get away with it! This notion that Londoners won't put up with average fayre is just not true as a lot of the time that's all they can get or afford. I'm sure if a lot of them visited Leeds or Manchester or Liverpool they'd very quickly realise how much better the average restaurant is in those cities (and how much better value they are) compared to London all other things being equal.

You need to stop thinking about London as just Covent Garden and Leicester Square. That's a very narrow view.
Of course trash exists in these areas - as it does in tourist hotspots all over the world. Where you find great London restaurants are in the places where real Londoners live and work (like Hackney, Brixton, Tooting, Wimbledon, Peckham).

Also, having been to Leeds and Liverpool (and Manchester) recently, I'd say that while they all had merits none was a patch on London for quality, choice and variety. And, with wages generally being lower in the North, there was a significantly greater proportion of dross at the middle/bottom end of the value chain.

You're talking utter nonsense, but as it's nothing to do with the ULEZ I'm going to leave it alone this time.

One thing though... wages may be lower in the north, but you don't seem to realise that living costs and housing are proportionally a lot less than London... do the math as they say.

A significantly greater proportion of dross at the middle/bottom end of the value chain?? Compared to Brixton, Peckham???? FFS