ULEZ charge in 2021

[gavsdavs]

ZX10R NIN said:

gavsdavs said:

The area within the n/s circulars is where a lot more people live, the public transport is a lot more patchy (unless you're heading into the centre), there's a lot more schools, so this is going to hit the school runners hard.

Furthermore, they can't simply police the perimeter like they have with CCZ. Many people move around inside it without leaving it or entering it. How are they going to capture people moving and charge them. Cameras on *every* *single* *lamppost* ?

There will be a proliferation of cameras everywhere within this zone that's why within the proposal they say they'll be spending 800 Million on a new camera network (paid for those very people that will be receiving fines) it's actually expected to cost nearer a billion which is no small amount of change.

Quite. This rather makes me think they're as interested in the unspoken, 'surveillance of all london' benefit as they are the 'clean air' element.

[j_4m]

Killboy said:

I think you fill find that people that live in London are very happy that Transport for London are making clear attempts for people to stop driving in London. Why shouldn't they be?

I will be living in the ULEZ, there's more to London than Zone 1 and I'd be completely on board if the ULEZ was restricted to Z1-2. Unfortunately it's not, by 2021 it'll expand to include large parts of London which are largely residential and unserved by public transport. As an example I travel to Sidcup from Forest Gate 3-4 times a week which is nigh on impossible using public transport. Even staying closer to London it's generally quicker for me to walk up to Hackney than to get public transport, which I'm fine with providing it's not totally pissing it down with rain/sleet/snow.

[gavsdavs]

Killboy said:

So sorry, if you are effected and still somehow seem to think you need to travel in the zone, buy a different car, there are a plethora of them available for peanuts that are exempt.

I live in the ULEZ. I have a car that I've owned for 18 years.

I have no wish to simply 'buy a different car', nor do I want to drive it inside the ULEZ, save for driving straight out of it. I do have a compliant car which I can drive for free inside the ULEZ.

The 24/7 nature of this charge means i cannot even start it to get out of London in it without getting stung for it.

12/5 and I'm more than happy, but this charge really means people with classics just cannot own them if they live in the ULEZ without a punitive 'you own an old car' charge.

[j_4m]

C70R said:

Just to be clear, you chose a job and a home which you knew would be difficult to commute between on public transport, then you complained about it?
Must be TfL's fault.

Yes, it is TfL's fault that my 4.8 mile commute from E7 to E1 can take over an hour.

Unfortunately I don't earn the requisite five grand a month which would let me rent a flat within walking distance to my office, but I guess that's my fault for not being a CEO.

[Guvernator]

j_4m said:

Yes, it is TfL's fault that my 4.8 mile commute from E7 to E1 can take over an hour.

Unfortunately I don't earn the requisite five grand a month which would let me rent a flat within walking distance to my office, but I guess that's my fault for not being a CEO.

Don't bother, C70R seems to live in some alternate dimension vastly disconnected from certain realities of life where public is transport is perfect and it's your failures in life that have lead to you having to use a crappy car in London.

[Killboy]

gavsdavs said:

I live in the ULEZ. I have a car that I've owned for 18 years.

I have no wish to simply 'buy a different car', nor do I want to drive it inside the ULEZ, save for driving straight out of it. I do have a compliant car which I can drive for free inside the ULEZ.

The 24/7 nature of this charge means i cannot even start it to get out of London in it without getting stung for it.

12/5 and I'm more than happy, but this charge really means people with classics just cannot own them if they live in the ULEZ without a punitive 'you own an old car' charge.

Yeah, and I'm in the same situation with a bike. I'd rather not get rid of it, so maybe I'll keep it and take the hit when riding it, or maybe I'll sell it. Either way, its a small amount to pay for the pleasure of a "classic", but large enough maybe make daily commuting by "classics" unfeasible.

I'm not really sure the 12/5 argument holds any water. Your car is not running cleaner out the other 12/2.

[Killboy]

j_4m said:

I will be living in the ULEZ, there's more to London than Zone 1 and I'd be completely on board if the ULEZ was restricted to Z1-2. Unfortunately it's not, by 2021 it'll expand to include large parts of London which are largely residential and unserved by public transport. As an example I travel to Sidcup from Forest Gate 3-4 times a week which is nigh on impossible using public transport. Even staying closer to London it's generally quicker for me to walk up to Hackney than to get public transport, which I'm fine with providing it's not totally pissing it down with rain/sleet/snow.

So what is it going to cost you to get a ULEZ compliant car?

[NomduJour]

gavsdavs said:

12/5 and I'm more than happy, but this charge really means people with classics just cannot own them if they live in the ULEZ without a punitive 'you own an old car' charge.

You need to get with the Khan/C70R programme - just because your well-maintained older car barely sees any use whatsoever inside the Vote Winning Zone, cars are still evil, sharing-caring public transport is good for you, and you must be stopped from actively killing hundreds of thousands of honest hard-working Londoners (and children, don’t forget the children). Only Khan can do this, by banning things.

[gavsdavs]

j_4m said:

Yes, it is TfL's fault that my 4.8 mile commute from E7 to E1 can take over an hour.

Unfortunately I don't earn the requisite five grand a month which would let me rent a flat within walking distance to my office, but I guess that's my fault for not being a CEO.

If you work in e1, then you don't need five grand a month for a flat. Honest. Stop being so dramatic you big girls blouse.

[j_4m]

Killboy said:

So what is it going to cost you to get a ULEZ compliant car?

More than I want to spend just to satisfy Khan's PR drive.

[Killboy]

j_4m said:

More than I want to spend just to satisfy Khan's PR drive.

Then vote, or move?

[j_4m]

gavsdavs said:

If you work in e1, then you don't need five grand a month for a flat. Honest. Stop being so dramatic you big girls blouse.

Well yes, if we're being reasonable then I would do something like live in a house in Forest Gate and share the rent with my girlfriend, then commute a short distance by train. Heaven forbid I should complain that that train service is frequently delayed or cancelled, though.

Killboy said:

Then vote, or move?

Working on it, believe me. London is fast becoming a place that has cons outweighing the pros.

Edited by j_4m on Monday 17th December 12:20

[C70R]

j_4m said:

C70R said:

Just to be clear, you chose a job and a home which you knew would be difficult to commute between on public transport, then you complained about it?
Must be TfL's fault.

Yes, it is TfL's fault that my 4.8 mile commute from E7 to E1 can take over an hour.

Unfortunately I don't earn the requisite five grand a month which would let me rent a flat within walking distance to my office, but I guess that's my fault for not being a CEO.

Hang on. One minute you're driving to Sidcup 4 times a week, and the next you're regularly catching a train to E1. Make your mind up.

[C70R]

gavsdavs said:

j_4m said:

Yes, it is TfL's fault that my 4.8 mile commute from E7 to E1 can take over an hour.

Unfortunately I don't earn the requisite five grand a month which would let me rent a flat within walking distance to my office, but I guess that's my fault for not being a CEO.

If you work in e1, then you don't need five grand a month for a flat. Honest. Stop being so dramatic you big girls blouse.

Indeed. I know people who work in E1/EC who commute in from 50+ miles without moaning. It feels like we're listening to a moan about not being able to afford property in London, rather than anything to do with the ULEZ...

[j_4m]

C70R said:

Hang on. One minute you're driving to Sidcup 4 times a week, and the next you're regularly catching a train to E1. Make your mind up.

Work in town, train/teach at a martial arts club in Sidcup.

[C70R]

NomduJour said:

gavsdavs said:

12/5 and I'm more than happy, but this charge really means people with classics just cannot own them if they live in the ULEZ without a punitive 'you own an old car' charge.

You need to get with the Khan/C70R programme - just because your well-maintained older car barely sees any use whatsoever inside the Vote Winning Zone, cars are still evil, sharing-caring public transport is good for you, and you must be stopped from actively killing hundreds of thousands of honest hard-working Londoners (and children, don’t forget the children). Only Khan can do this, by banning things.

Or, as an alternative, you could become an hysterical blouse.

Nobody is "banning" anything. You're welcome to drive any car you wish in the ULEZ.
If your "older car" contributes towards poor air quality for the people who live there, then there will be a charge to disincentivise use.

[C70R]

j_4m said:

C70R said:

Hang on. One minute you're driving to Sidcup 4 times a week, and the next you're regularly catching a train to E1. Make your mind up.

Work in town, train/teach at a martial arts club in Sidcup.

So you elect to drive a 28-mile round trip 4 times a week through horribly congested parts of London (inc. the Blackwall Tunnel), for a hobby? A journey that can frequently take over an hour each way at peak time?
When instead you could take a couple of trains (via Liverpool St) and a bus which would take just over an hour each way?

And that's someone else's fault?

Edited by C70R on Monday 17th December 12:42

[j_4m]

C70R said:

So you elect to drive a 28-mile round trip 4 times a week through horribly congested parts of London (inc. the Blackwall Tunnel), for a hobby? A journey that can frequently take over an hour each way at peak time?
When instead you could take a couple of trains (via Liverpool St) and a bus which would take just over an hour each way?

And that's someone else's fault?

Edited by C70R on Monday 17th December 12:42

Citymapper believes the quickest public transport route involves two busses, a tube line and a Southeastern train for a total of 80 minutes. If you think that doing that with a kit bag full of boxing gloves, pads and weapons is a good idea then you're more than welcome to try. The outward run usually take me 45 minutes, down to around 30 minutes on the way home. I guess I could give up on my interests and stop seeing my mates in favour of an exciting life in front of the TV.

Note I'm not advocating for TFL to put in a train line that runs from East to SE London for my own convenience, because that's stupid, but rather that there are plenty of situations where people living in the expanded ULEZ will need a car.

[C70R]

j_4m said:

C70R said:

So you elect to drive a 28-mile round trip 4 times a week through horribly congested parts of London (inc. the Blackwall Tunnel), for a hobby? A journey that can frequently take over an hour each way at peak time?
When instead you could take a couple of trains (via Liverpool St) and a bus which would take just over an hour each way?

And that's someone else's fault?

Edited by C70R on Monday 17th December 12:42

If you think that doing that with a kit bag full of boxing gloves, pads and weapons is a good idea then you're more than welcome to try. The outward run usually take me 45 minutes, down to around 30 minutes on the way home. I guess I could give up on my interests and stop seeing my mates in favour of an exciting life in front of the TV.
...
plenty of situations where people living in the expanded ULEZ will need a car.

And all of that is fine. Nobody is banning cars from the ULEZ.
Literally any petrol-engined car made in the past 13 years is absolutely fine to drive in the ULEZ without charge. You have the choice of more than A QUARTER OF A MILLION CARS on Autotrader right now.

Or, you could get all hysterical about it. Either is fine.

[gavsdavs]

NomduJour said:

gavsdavs said:

12/5 and I'm more than happy, but this charge really means people with classics just cannot own them if they live in the ULEZ without a punitive 'you own an old car' charge.

You need to get with the Khan/C70R programme - just because your well-maintained older car barely sees any use whatsoever inside the Vote Winning Zone, cars are still evil, sharing-caring public transport is good for you, and you must be stopped from actively killing hundreds of thousands of honest hard-working Londoners (and children, don’t forget the children). Only Khan can do this, by banning things.

Though I am largely in favour of deterring the use of cars, I am in favour of it targetting the busiest times of the week, like the school runners. This was also the strategy of the CCZ. This 24/7 st is OTT and the lack of flexibility on this is very disappointing (and kind of backs up your paranoia)

If i wish to drive where there are clearly better alternatives to sitting in rush hour traffic, I take the so-called healthy lexus with the 3.3L engine. If i want to go and enjoy driving out in the shires at 5am in the morning, I take the MR2. The lexus uses more fuel than the MR2.