RE: The Elise Cup 260; lighter, meaner, pricier
Discussion
Mikearwas said:
PunterCam said:
I should really pop round to Lotus and make them a new dashboard.
You'd be doing us all a great favour. Can you do the indicators too whilst you're at it?kambites said:
Porsche, Lotus and Mclaren seem to be competing for the smallest delta they can call a new car. 
Pistonheads should make a rule that no "New car postings" can be published unless some minimum criteria are met:
- at least 10% increase in Power
- at least 2% weight reduction
- Distinctly different aero
or
To simplify it must be able to lap the Nurburgring at least 20 Seconds faster than predecessor ;-)
At the moment,
New Wheels and leather stitching...... New model
New colour combination With a sticker on the bumper....... New model
My favorite is Porsches approach, strip basic car, offer everything back as extras, increase price by 5% ......... New model!
British Beef said:
Pistonheads should make a rule that no "New car postings" can be published unless some minimum criteria are met:
- at least 10% increase in Power
Lets not. An increase in power these days is usually solely to cover an increase in heft, and where it's not they also have to add nannying devices so the thing is actually driveable.- at least 10% increase in Power
kambites said:
Ah yeah, thinking about it that was obvious given the context. 
although the indicator did fall out my S2 and also the wiper motor failed and the car caught fire, the paint bubbled and the ECU died.s
ttest car I have owned for faults , but I did like driving it.Issue today is people are still have problems and dealers cannot pass a warranty claim so faults are not fixed for months , and for some odd reason Lotus have to send out "A MAN" to take a look !!! he is a busy man so with more cars sold this MAN is over worked lol
I know a few Lotus suppliers they are always on stop !!
A £60k Elise is a joke, a £33k 1.5 year old 2nd hand 220 CUP is a nice toy, or a £38k Exige V6
problem is some sucker has to buy the new ones, the good news is these suckers cannot afford to keep them after the 2 year 50/50 deal so you get nice 2 year old cars up for sale at not much more than 1/2 price :-), these are the cars to buy and most faults have been fixed by then.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 24th October 09:21
Yep this is right. Which is why they will go bust again... the brand is not good enough now for competing at 60/100k cars.
stuart-b said:
Selling 30 of these at 60k gives them £1.8mil
Perhaps £2mil at a push with options
Over 5 years 30 extra cars come in for servicing, contributing a minor amount.
If they made the cheaper end more affordable like with the Caterham, surely the net effect would be much better?
Even 100 cars @30k is £3 mil (much lower profit of course), but would start to rebuild the brand and network.
Perhaps I don't 'get it', but surely a light 1.8 low co2 sports car is all a lot of people can justify now for a fun car, but at 60k? No thanks
Perhaps £2mil at a push with options
Over 5 years 30 extra cars come in for servicing, contributing a minor amount.
If they made the cheaper end more affordable like with the Caterham, surely the net effect would be much better?
Even 100 cars @30k is £3 mil (much lower profit of course), but would start to rebuild the brand and network.
Perhaps I don't 'get it', but surely a light 1.8 low co2 sports car is all a lot of people can justify now for a fun car, but at 60k? No thanks
Porsche911R said:
although the indicator did fall out my S2 and also the wiper motor failed and the car caught fire, the paint bubbled and the ECU died.
That's a shame. Mine hasn't done any of those, in fact in 11 years of daily use its never broken down at all which is more than can be said of our Skoda. 
I wouldn't buy one new, but then I wouldn't buy anything new (which of course doesn't help Lotus a great deal).
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 24th October 09:33
stuart-b said:
Selling 30 of these at 60k gives them £1.8mil
Perhaps £2mil at a push with options
Over 5 years 30 extra cars come in for servicing, contributing a minor amount.
If they made the cheaper end more affordable like with the Caterham, surely the net effect would be much better?
Even 100 cars @30k is £3 mil (much lower profit of course), but would start to rebuild the brand and network.
Perhaps I don't 'get it', but surely a light 1.8 low co2 sports car is all a lot of people can justify now for a fun car, but at 60k? No thanks
'Affordable' cars don't tend to make any money for the manufacturers - margins at the bottom-end are wafer-thin. Hence why they always release limited editions and try to up-sell.Perhaps £2mil at a push with options
Over 5 years 30 extra cars come in for servicing, contributing a minor amount.
If they made the cheaper end more affordable like with the Caterham, surely the net effect would be much better?
Even 100 cars @30k is £3 mil (much lower profit of course), but would start to rebuild the brand and network.
Perhaps I don't 'get it', but surely a light 1.8 low co2 sports car is all a lot of people can justify now for a fun car, but at 60k? No thanks
The cost to make this will be (bar a few £'000) the same as a £30k car. So a £30k car will make them maybe £4k or £5k towards tooling and profit, but this will make them £14 or £15k at least (probably more). So 30 x £15k = £450k minimum / 100x £4k or £5k is the same. All the while they're still marketing the lesser versions towards people with a £30k budget, so they probably still sell >50 of those too...
Lotus have realised that the mainstream £80-120k sports car market is saturated and has a natural market leader to try and overthrow, so they're focusing on THEIR USP and launching SLIGHTLY newer/faster/lighter versions of the car that people already have (a model Porsche has exploited successfully for >20 years). For their capital spend (i.e. not enough to launch a couple of brand new models) it works efffectively, even if it's boring to those of us watching and waiting for the next breakthrough...
Porsche911R said:
although the indicator did fall out my S2 and also the wiper motor failed and the car caught fire, the paint bubbled and the ECU died.
sttest car I have owned for faults , but I did like driving it.
Issue today is people are still have problems and dealers cannot pass a warranty claim so faults are not fixed for months , as for some odd reason Lotus have to send out "A MAN" to take a look !!! he is a busy man so with more cars sold this MAN is over worked lol
I know a few Lotus suppliers they are always on stop !!
A £60k Elise is a joke, a £33k 1.5 year old 2nd hand 220 CUP is a nice toy, or a £38k Exige V6
problem is some sucker has to buy the new ones, the good news is these suckers cannot afford to keep them after the 2 year 50/50 deal so you get nice 2 year old cars up for sale at 1/2 price :-)
I bought my 220 Cup 2nd hand and just over a year old. Paid £37k for it (£48k was the purchase price new with options) and intend it to be a keeper for weekend usage. s
ttest car I have owned for faults , but I did like driving it.Issue today is people are still have problems and dealers cannot pass a warranty claim so faults are not fixed for months , as for some odd reason Lotus have to send out "A MAN" to take a look !!! he is a busy man so with more cars sold this MAN is over worked lol
I know a few Lotus suppliers they are always on stop !!
A £60k Elise is a joke, a £33k 1.5 year old 2nd hand 220 CUP is a nice toy, or a £38k Exige V6
problem is some sucker has to buy the new ones, the good news is these suckers cannot afford to keep them after the 2 year 50/50 deal so you get nice 2 year old cars up for sale at 1/2 price :-)
Not sure I would buy one new but Lotus special edition cars seem to have really good residuals by the time they get to around 10 years old. If you have a rarer version then it seems to be even better.
The stupid issues don't bother me, I like working on cars and accept these faults as its a hand built car so will continue to rework or repair where required. I work in composites/ engineering so the whole thing appeals to me.
The fact when I drive down the road in the car and vast majority look at it shows it has presence on the road.
I like that you don't see many of these cars on the road unlike the masses of Porkers that you see nowadays. Just feels more special driving it.
great car 2nd hand, but as you well know a Carbon rear spoiler with a crack in it is not a good thing on a £50k car.
I am sure you have had a new one already :-)
Also the supports go rusty etc etc
but at £37k you have saved the 1st year drop and as you say these hold value well so cheap motoring as long as Lotus don't keep you off the road too long.
As I said buying one 2nd hand with all the faults sorted and £15k saved is the best option.
I might treat myself to a cup 220 or even that white cup 250 at Howards if there is a deal, as it has a exhaust and a Momo both of which I would want to do.
I see that dealer cannot shift that blue 220 cup though and it's down to £35.5k now. again tempting.
I am sure you have had a new one already :-)
Also the supports go rusty etc etc
but at £37k you have saved the 1st year drop and as you say these hold value well so cheap motoring as long as Lotus don't keep you off the road too long.
As I said buying one 2nd hand with all the faults sorted and £15k saved is the best option.
I might treat myself to a cup 220 or even that white cup 250 at Howards if there is a deal, as it has a exhaust and a Momo both of which I would want to do.
I see that dealer cannot shift that blue 220 cup though and it's down to £35.5k now. again tempting.
Porsche911R said:
great car 2nd hand, but as you well know a Carbon rear spoiler with a crack in it is not a good thing on a £50k car.
I am sure you have had a new one already :-)
Also the supports go rusty etc etc
but at £37k you have saved the 1st year drop and as you say these hold value well so cheap motoring as long as Lotus don't keep you off the road too long.
As I said buying one 2nd hand with all the faults sorted and £15k saved is the best option.
I might treat myself to a cup 220 or even that white cup 250 at Howards if there is a deal, as it has a exhaust and a Momo both of which I would want to do.
I see that dealer cannot shift that blue 220 cup though and it's down to £35.5k now. again tempting.
Yes the wing has been sorted. I am sure you have had a new one already :-)
Also the supports go rusty etc etc
but at £37k you have saved the 1st year drop and as you say these hold value well so cheap motoring as long as Lotus don't keep you off the road too long.
As I said buying one 2nd hand with all the faults sorted and £15k saved is the best option.
I might treat myself to a cup 220 or even that white cup 250 at Howards if there is a deal, as it has a exhaust and a Momo both of which I would want to do.
I see that dealer cannot shift that blue 220 cup though and it's down to £35.5k now. again tempting.
There seems to be a bit of a thing going with the 220 and 250 versions so that maybe why Jon Seal hasn't sold it yet. Yes the 250 has 30 bhp more but its all at the top end so really only useful on the track, the 220 is nearly as fast to 60mph.
You can have the 260 upgrade done at Hangar 111 for about £2500 and you will have the same car.
I'll get mine on track at some point but I'm not a millionaire, have kids so don't have masses of disposable income for trackdays. I just enjoy driving the back roads so 220 bhp is plenty for that.
Edited by Composite Guru on Tuesday 24th October 10:05
The thing is it's a track car really so that extra at the top end is very nice, again as you stated Komotech 265bhp is quite cheap.
I used to love mine on track as you don't have to be rich to track an Elise over say the v6 exige which is a killer on every thing.
The Elise is cheap as chips to track on fuel, brakes tyres etc, def take it on track in 2018 ;-) the LOT days are very good value and a good day out.
I used to love mine on track as you don't have to be rich to track an Elise over say the v6 exige which is a killer on every thing.
The Elise is cheap as chips to track on fuel, brakes tyres etc, def take it on track in 2018 ;-) the LOT days are very good value and a good day out.
I dont really see the issue, people must be buying them so thats all good for Lotus and us as they'll come up second hand for anyone wanting a bargain.
Any Lotus needs thought before buying because models can be modded to the spec of another, its just the man maths to get there. If cost is an issue you should just buy a nice second hand one or a supercharged VX220. Its ~50-100 kgs less with ~10 bhp more, all yours for ~12K for a well spec'd one. So much choice out there it really is down to the buyer to find a car which fits their needs and budget.
Any Lotus needs thought before buying because models can be modded to the spec of another, its just the man maths to get there. If cost is an issue you should just buy a nice second hand one or a supercharged VX220. Its ~50-100 kgs less with ~10 bhp more, all yours for ~12K for a well spec'd one. So much choice out there it really is down to the buyer to find a car which fits their needs and budget.
Interesting to see the threads around the time of the Exige Cup 260 launch.
Same names doing the same moaning. "Way too heavy, way too expensive, only 5bhp more than the last one, load of bks, what idiot will buy this etc"
Exige Cup 260s now? Asking £55k in the classifieds and selling as soon as they go up. That's when you can buy a used Exige V6S for less than £40k too.
The idiots that bought them enjoyed a car that drives like nothing else at any price and anyone who kept one since new until now would have not lost a penny on it.
Only 30 for the world will make this rarer than the Exige Cup 260. Clearly there are people out there who prefer the 4 cylinder Exige to the V6 and are prepared to pay more for it. For me I think the Sprint 220 is probably all the Elise I could wish for plus a bit less grip might mean a bit more fun. But why shouldn't there be an ultimate Elise with high end carbon parts and vented arches? Who wouldn't want to have a go in that?!
Same names doing the same moaning. "Way too heavy, way too expensive, only 5bhp more than the last one, load of b
ks, what idiot will buy this etc"Exige Cup 260s now? Asking £55k in the classifieds and selling as soon as they go up. That's when you can buy a used Exige V6S for less than £40k too.
The idiots that bought them enjoyed a car that drives like nothing else at any price and anyone who kept one since new until now would have not lost a penny on it.
Only 30 for the world will make this rarer than the Exige Cup 260. Clearly there are people out there who prefer the 4 cylinder Exige to the V6 and are prepared to pay more for it. For me I think the Sprint 220 is probably all the Elise I could wish for plus a bit less grip might mean a bit more fun. But why shouldn't there be an ultimate Elise with high end carbon parts and vented arches? Who wouldn't want to have a go in that?!
Edited by twinturban on Tuesday 24th October 10:41
twinturban said:
Interesting to see the threads around the time of the Exige Cup 260 launch.
Same names doing the same moaning. "Way too heavy, way too expensive, only 5bhp more than the last one, load of bks, what idiot will buy this etc"
Where are the Exige Cup 260s now? Asking £55k in the classifieds and selling as soon as they go up. That's when you can buy a used Exige V6S for less than £40k too.
The idiots that bought them enjoyed a car that drives like nothing else at any price and anyone who kept one since new until now would have not lost a penny on it.
Only 30 for the world will make this rarer than the Exige Cup 260. Clearly there are people out there who prefer the 4 cylinder Exige to the V6 and are prepared to pay more for it. I think this car is for them. For me I think the Sprint 220 is probably all the Elise I could wish for plus a bit less grip might mean a bit more fun. But why shouldn't there be an ultimate Elise with high end carbon parts and vented arches? If you wouldn't want a go in that you're definitely in need of a new hobby!
have you ordered one, or a Sprint ? ;-) the Sprint 220 listed at Howards is £52k lol !!!Same names doing the same moaning. "Way too heavy, way too expensive, only 5bhp more than the last one, load of b
ks, what idiot will buy this etc"Where are the Exige Cup 260s now? Asking £55k in the classifieds and selling as soon as they go up. That's when you can buy a used Exige V6S for less than £40k too.
The idiots that bought them enjoyed a car that drives like nothing else at any price and anyone who kept one since new until now would have not lost a penny on it.
Only 30 for the world will make this rarer than the Exige Cup 260. Clearly there are people out there who prefer the 4 cylinder Exige to the V6 and are prepared to pay more for it. I think this car is for them. For me I think the Sprint 220 is probably all the Elise I could wish for plus a bit less grip might mean a bit more fun. But why shouldn't there be an ultimate Elise with high end carbon parts and vented arches? If you wouldn't want a go in that you're definitely in need of a new hobby!
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