Toshiba battery 6 minute charge 200 mile range soon...
Discussion
CrutyRammers said:
I believe that my petrolhead credentials are in order. I've built and restored cars, there's a classic in the garage right now in pieces. I love the sound and fury of an historic racer, spitting out fuel on the overrun. I love manual gear shifts. I love the sound and the smell and the oil.
BUT
You have to ask yourself that if you were to design a vehicle from a clean sheet of paper in a perfect world, would it really have a gearbox, or a clutch? Mechanical pumps driven by belts? Carry around gallons of fluids - including 15 gallons of highly flammable stuff? With 20 or 30 kilos of piping and silencing boxes on it?
All the things I love about ICE are really hacks and workarounds to make the things usable. Objectively, an electric car is a better solution, just as an ICE car is better than a steam car.
Frankly, modern petrol cars are so insulated and sanitised anyway, that moving to electric will barely be noticeable.
I use a similar point every time someone argues about the infrastructure being impossible etc.BUT
You have to ask yourself that if you were to design a vehicle from a clean sheet of paper in a perfect world, would it really have a gearbox, or a clutch? Mechanical pumps driven by belts? Carry around gallons of fluids - including 15 gallons of highly flammable stuff? With 20 or 30 kilos of piping and silencing boxes on it?
All the things I love about ICE are really hacks and workarounds to make the things usable. Objectively, an electric car is a better solution, just as an ICE car is better than a steam car.
Frankly, modern petrol cars are so insulated and sanitised anyway, that moving to electric will barely be noticeable.
When the petrol car was invented there was no infrastructure, in fact I think people had to buy petrol from the chemist. Demand appears, infrastructure appears.
Knowing what we know now we wouldn't even consider inventing ICE cars if they didn't exist. Can you begin to imagine the H&S office saying yes to someone who says "I've got this great idea, ordinary people in the street will get a few hours training then we'll set them off in a huge metal box capable of travelling at 100mph whilst carrying several gallons of explosive liquid."
It's the same argument I use for self driving cars.
All this charging argument is irrelevant, we won't be charging the cars, they will do it themselves, we'll simply book a ride home using a phone app or similar. We'll pay by the mile and that's it. Why would anyone need to own a self driving car? It's Uber but with better drivers.
We are the worst people in the world to be talking about this because we form emotional bonds with our cars. The vast majority of the population don't even like cars, let alone love them or appreciate them.
poo at Paul's said:
bristolracer said:
If you can get 1 car in a 2 car house over to electric it will make some difference.
Yes, the unit price of electricity will increase massively! WM
Wuzzle said:
PositronicRay said:
Max_Torque said:
Stu08 said:
I have driven PHEV in electric mode only and a Nissan Leaf - didn't enjoy it.
I think this is an important point^^^ You didn't "enjoy" driving a PHEV and a Leaf. Fair enough. But, would you actually enjoy driving say the ICE version of the PHEV, or say a Nissan Micra ?
A Nissan Leaf isn't a very fun car to drive, but, and this is important, neither is a Nissan Micra. I wouldn't expect someone driving an Elise to find a Leaf very exciting or fun to drive, but that is, largely irrelevant.
The UK's best selling PHEV is the Mitsubishi Outlander. A decent enough car, but not really a fun or inspiring drive, in either pure diesel or PHEV form.
Right now, there is no real electric replacement for our fun cars, our Elises, our 911's, etc, but, there will be and while we wait for those, the 28 million odd boring commuter cars, like all those Micras and Outlanders, can move to being 'lecy powered without any issue!
windymissile said:
poo at Paul's said:
bristolracer said:
If you can get 1 car in a 2 car house over to electric it will make some difference.
Yes, the unit price of electricity will increase massively! Fuel duty is exactly the same for diesel and petrol - 57.95p/litre plus VAT. Last time it went up was 2010.
TooMany2cvs said:
windymissile said:
poo at Paul's said:
bristolracer said:
If you can get 1 car in a 2 car house over to electric it will make some difference.
Yes, the unit price of electricity will increase massively! Fuel duty is exactly the same for diesel and petrol - 57.95p/litre plus VAT. Last time it went up was 2010.
WM
windymissile said:
TooMany2cvs said:
windymissile said:
poo at Paul's said:
bristolracer said:
If you can get 1 car in a 2 car house over to electric it will make some difference.
Yes, the unit price of electricity will increase massively! Fuel duty is exactly the same for diesel and petrol - 57.95p/litre plus VAT. Last time it went up was 2010.
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables
BTW, I assume you know that VED and fuel duty are very different things, and that you simply lobbed a total non-sequitur in for fun.
Wuzzle said:
Max_Torque said:
Wuzzle said:
Max_Torque said:
320kW is easy.
I have a 600kW supply i use every day, no problems what so ever
And how much would it cost everybody to have one of these installed at home?I have a 600kW supply i use every day, no problems what so ever
at home?
No? Then why would you need an EV fast charger at home??
7kw Schneider home EV charger on Ebay currently.
£3,500!
And that is just for the box of stuff.
Mr2Mike said:
Wuzzle said:
You appear to have gone rather quiet Max, one of PH's many EV blowhards...
IIRC with the government grant a home charging point costs about £400, though obviously this won't be a fast charging solution.
TooMany2cvs said:
...and THAT is the showstopper that the EV zealots miss. The grid simply would not cope.
I've done a round trip of about 370 miles today. There's nowhere to plug an EV in at the destination, and the car wasn't stationary for more than about an hour all day, anyway. It was done in a 20yo car that cost me £250 18mo/20k ago, and used just over 30 litres of fuel for the trip, with most of the motorway miles at mildly illegal cruise altitude, and the trips out-and-about from the destination were mostly done with the rear seats flat and the boot full to the window line.
EV zealots? Wtf are you in about.I've done a round trip of about 370 miles today. There's nowhere to plug an EV in at the destination, and the car wasn't stationary for more than about an hour all day, anyway. It was done in a 20yo car that cost me £250 18mo/20k ago, and used just over 30 litres of fuel for the trip, with most of the motorway miles at mildly illegal cruise altitude, and the trips out-and-about from the destination were mostly done with the rear seats flat and the boot full to the window line.
Nobody has said that everybody should have one on here ( government advisors may differ)
Nobody has said you must only have one car
Nobody has said they will suit everybody
Nobody has said that everybody only comutes 5 minutes and goes shopping on Saturday.
Get a grip
Oh my car history is in profile if you want to check the type of cars I prefer.
But guess what situations change would I own an ev only? No
If I had a short commute would I own one for that purpose and have other cars for other roles yes very possibly.
Wuzzle said:
Mr2Mike said:
Wuzzle said:
You appear to have gone rather quiet Max, one of PH's many EV blowhards...
IIRC with the government grant a home charging point costs about £400, though obviously this won't be a fast charging solution.Anyway, the point is on a 3kW charger you're able to get ~150 miles from a 12 hour charge. So for most people doing normal commutes they can bung it on charge overnight and be completely full in the morning.
Being a consumer is all about choice. The fact is MANY if not MOST people could change to a solid EV right now (say a Renault Zoe 40kWh or a Leaf 30kWh) and more than cover their needs. And they may only need to charge it once or twice a week. That's enough to make a significant change in the landscape of driving.
The rest of you lot that punish yourselves by driving 300+ miles a day, well you stick to your ICEs...in the future these will just also be electrified to a degree also.
And we still have the opportunity for range extenders in vehicles. That hasn't been properly thrashed out in the marketplace yet.
Wuzzle said:
Wuzzle said:
Max_Torque said:
Wuzzle said:
Max_Torque said:
320kW is easy.
I have a 600kW supply i use every day, no problems what so ever
And how much would it cost everybody to have one of these installed at home?I have a 600kW supply i use every day, no problems what so ever
at home?
No? Then why would you need an EV fast charger at home??
7kw Schneider home EV charger on Ebay currently.
£3,500!
And that is just for the box of stuff.
I can get a 7kw home charger fitted for £360
https://pod-point.com/products/homecharge
I've no problem with a well resolved EV, it's certainly an interesting subject.
I believe though for the concept to work properly we need to get closer to the singularity of autonomous electric communal cars which will suit the majority of people who just need a car to get from A to B. The 'singularity' solves the problem of the majority of people not having home access to recharging over night (on-street, live in flats etc), financing the vast infrastructure changes, organising the infrastructure and extending range theoretically to anywhere in the country (just change cars). Downside is probably a certain amount of car sharing at peak times & you can't leave your stuff in the car.
The rich can enjoy their own well resolved EVs and get the butler to sort out all that charging business. The old can carry on driving their ICE MGBs between the 3 remaining petrol stations in the country. Job jobbed.
I believe though for the concept to work properly we need to get closer to the singularity of autonomous electric communal cars which will suit the majority of people who just need a car to get from A to B. The 'singularity' solves the problem of the majority of people not having home access to recharging over night (on-street, live in flats etc), financing the vast infrastructure changes, organising the infrastructure and extending range theoretically to anywhere in the country (just change cars). Downside is probably a certain amount of car sharing at peak times & you can't leave your stuff in the car.
The rich can enjoy their own well resolved EVs and get the butler to sort out all that charging business. The old can carry on driving their ICE MGBs between the 3 remaining petrol stations in the country. Job jobbed.
GroundEffect said:
And we still have the opportunity for range extenders in vehicles. That hasn't been properly thrashed out in the marketplace yet.
Hasn't it?Volt/Ampera - launched 2010
i3 - launched 2013
Looks from HML like about 3/4 of UK i3 buyers go down the REx route, 1/4 don't. (<8k i3s registered here to date.)
The fact that none of the other EV manufacturers have chosen that option probably says a fair bit.
HannsG said:
I saw a Tesla on a charge point today.
I walked past thinking... What's the f
king point?
Gimmick at best. Charging my work phone is a pain in the arse. God knows where you electric driving muppets find the time to wait for a mode of transport to charge up.
200 mile range? Oh yeah baby... Lol. Do you even Venture out of your back yard? Or do you all own a second car fueled by satans fuel for long haul trips?
Anyone heard of Petrol or diesel?????
Do you live under a bridge?I walked past thinking... What's the f
king point? Gimmick at best. Charging my work phone is a pain in the arse. God knows where you electric driving muppets find the time to wait for a mode of transport to charge up.
200 mile range? Oh yeah baby... Lol. Do you even Venture out of your back yard? Or do you all own a second car fueled by satans fuel for long haul trips?
Anyone heard of Petrol or diesel?????
Edited by HannsG on Monday 23 October 22:38
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff