RE: Jaguar XJR575 SWB: Driven

[craigjm]

Ares said:

Exactly.

Sir William. Spin Spin Spin....!

I don’t think so. The man was a visionary and pushed the boundaries within the constraints of the time and budget they had which was never lots. He put the company into the position when he outsourced the production of the bodies and then the company doing that was taken over. He produced the xk120 when people didn’t expect it, people initially hated the XJS and the XJ40 should have been in prediction in the 70s so the series 3 was a stop gap due to no money. With modern techniques and taste and a much healthier budget there is no telling what he would have done. The important thing is that the company lives on.

[Ares]

craigjm said:

Ares said:

Exactly.

Sir William. Spin Spin Spin....!

I don’t think so. The man was a visionary and pushed the boundaries within the constraints of the time and budget they had which was never lots. He put the company into the position when he outsourced the production of the bodies and then the company doing that was taken over. He produced the xk120 when people didn’t expect it, people initially hated the XJS and the XJ40 should have been in prediction in the 70s so the series 3 was a stop gap due to no money. With modern techniques and taste and a much healthier budget there is no telling what he would have done. The important thing is that the company lives on.

It's the question over it living on that bothers me. It seems to be the runt of JLR with nothing inspiring coming through, when it could easily have accessible halo models (like it always has had)

There is nothing in the Jaguar range that tempted me when I came to buy my car earlier this year. As a British, 40-something company director looking at a sporty saloon, that is sad.

[bloomen]

I'm not sure I've ever seen one of these on the road. If I did I would assume it was a forgotten top of the line Kia or Hyundai. It's 'orrible.

[craigjm]

Ares said:

when it could easily have accessible halo models (like it always has had)

There is nothing in the Jaguar range that tempted me when I came to buy my car earlier this year. As a British, 40-something company director looking at a sporty saloon, that is sad.

The EType and XK140 etc might well have been reasonably priced against Ferrari’s and Aston’s etc of the time but were hardly easily accessible for most.

Did you consider an XJ between 1986-2008? I wouldn’t have done. The company from late 70s onwards was far too focussed on old men in their late 50s and beyond. At least TaTa has bought a modernisation and create a younger clientele. Next generation starts with the new XJ let’s see what’s in store now the stabilisation period is over.

[Ares]

craigjm said:

Ares said:

when it could easily have accessible halo models (like it always has had)

There is nothing in the Jaguar range that tempted me when I came to buy my car earlier this year. As a British, 40-something company director looking at a sporty saloon, that is sad.

The EType and XK140 etc might well have been reasonably priced against Ferrari’s and Aston’s etc of the time but were hardly easily accessible for most.

Did you consider an XJ between 1986-2008? I wouldn’t have done. The company from late 70s onwards was far too focussed on old men in their late 50s and beyond. At least TaTa has bought a modernisation and create a younger clientele. Next generation starts with the new XJ let’s see what’s in store now the stabilisation period is over.

No, but I did consider an S-Type in '98, an XK in 2003 and an XF in both 2008 and 2014. All came close to appealing and held their own. The current range has gone backwards and sunk into 'average'. To me they are a British Honda and seem to be heading for the space where Rover were.

As I get closer to what Jaguar's core market was, they are becoming less appealing.

Conversely, the Land Rover products are leading the field and growing ever stronger. It's horrid to see Jaguar being the runt of the litter.

[craigjm]

Ares said:

No, but I did consider an S-Type in '98, an XK in 2003 and an XF in both 2008 and 2014. All came close to appealing and held their own. The current range has gone backwards and sunk into 'average'. To me they are a British Honda and seem to be heading for the space where Rover were..

I bought one of the first XF in 2008 and it was a quantum leap over the S as was the 2009 XJ over the 2003 model. Still wasn’t much of a fan of the XK but Jaguar were on a roll. Sadly after that I have not seen anything I like and the Mk2 XF is too similar to an XE for me and I think feels less special. I can understand the launch of the XK, Ftype, F,E and I pace but none are my cup of tea. It has however kept the company going and for me the new XJ is where it hangs in the balance. Let’s see what arrives.

[Ares]

craigjm said:

Ares said:

No, but I did consider an S-Type in '98, an XK in 2003 and an XF in both 2008 and 2014. All came close to appealing and held their own. The current range has gone backwards and sunk into 'average'. To me they are a British Honda and seem to be heading for the space where Rover were..

I bought one of the first XF in 2008 and it was a quantum leap over the S as was the 2009 XJ over the 2003 model. Still wasn’t much of a fan of the XK but Jaguar were on a roll. Sadly after that I have not seen anything I like and the Mk2 XF is too similar to an XE for me and I think feels less special. I can understand the launch of the XK, Ftype, F,E and I pace but none are my cup of tea. It has however kept the company going and for me the new XJ is where it hangs in the balance. Let’s see what arrives.

The XF was great, especially in S guise where it was a benchmark car. But the nothing in the XF range now is a benchmark. In fact it struggles to compete at the higher levels. Retrograde step IMO.

[craigjm]

Speaking of Rover the name is owned by Tata and they could launch a range of Rover cars if they wish. I think the focus from JLR in the next two years though will be new XJ, potential Q7 sized SUV (Jpace?) and then the creation of the Road Rover range of cars that will be non-suvs but with a rugged kind of Land Rover edge so think jacked up estate cars and the like. I guess we have to accept that the driving tastes are now Chinese and Indian etc

[Ares]

craigjm said:

Speaking of Rover the name is owned by Tata and they could launch a range of Rover cars if they wish. I think the focus from JLR in the next two years though will be new XJ, potential Q7 sized SUV (Jpace?) and then the creation of the Road Rover range of cars that will be non-suvs but with a rugged kind of Land Rover edge so think jacked up estate cars and the like. I guess we have to accept that the driving tastes are now Chinese and Indian etc

I hope not. The Jaguar brand will head further down the swanny.

They have the basis of great potential with the XE and XF, finish that job. Then sort a decent XJ and replace the XK.

Leave the SUV to Land/Range Rover.

[Craikeybaby]

The thing is at the moment Land Rover/Range Rover are hampered by the brand requirement that their cars work well off road. Whereas Jaguar SUVs can be more road biased, like their competitors.

[Lambo FirstBlood]

Danwise said:

Vocht said:

Ares said:

With the continued use of this engine, despite it's perpetiual-imminent retirement, I can't understand why there wasn't a halo (non-£XXX,XXX) M3/C63/QV competitor made out of the XE 3 years ago.

Jag repeatedly missing a trick.

Should be XE SVR version coming soon. Not too sure why they're so late to the market though?

From what I gather the XE SVR has not been seen as a top priority, with all the new models still being developed. From what I understand XE is due a mid-life refresh next year, and this is when we will be seeing the SVR version.

I’ve had it first hand from SVO that the V8 won’t be making its way in to any XE product outside of Project 8.

[craigjm]

Lambo FirstBlood said:

I’ve had it first hand from SVO that the V8 won’t be making its way in to any XE product outside of Project 8.

That’s probably not a surprise because the v8 engine is a Ford based engine and they are trying to finally break the last ties with Ford now the Ingenium engines are ready.

[liner33]

craigjm said:

That’s probably not a surprise because the v8 engine is a Ford based engine and they are trying to finally break the last ties with Ford now the Ingenium engines are ready.

Is it a Ford engine? I didnt think it was I thought it was all Jaguar

[craigjm]

liner33 said:

craigjm said:

That’s probably not a surprise because the v8 engine is a Ford based engine and they are trying to finally break the last ties with Ford now the Ingenium engines are ready.

Is it a Ford engine? I didnt think it was I thought it was all Jaguar

It’s the third generation of the original engine launched in 1996. It was designed solely for Jaguar by Jaguar but under Ford ownership who retained the rights to the engine post sale and as such Ford build them on behalf of jaguar and sell them to JLR as a customer. The same is true of the 3.0 Diesel engine. The only engines that Jaguar owns the rights to and builds itself are the new Ingenium engines

[liner33]

craigjm said:

It’s the third generation of the original engine launched in 1996. It was designed solely for Jaguar by Jaguar but under Ford ownership who retained the rights to the engine post sale and as such Ford build them on behalf of jaguar and sell them to JLR as a customer. The same is true of the 3.0 Diesel engine. The only engines that Jaguar owns the rights to and builds itself are the new Ingenium engines

Jaguar build them in a factory housed within a Ford Factory in South Wales


" The AJ8 engine is manufactured in an all-new, dedicated Jaguar facility located within the Ford Bridgend Engine Plant in Bridgend, South Wales. The Jaguar "plant-within-a-plant" saved considerable investment costs by Jaguar. It is staffed by workers dedicated to Jaguar engine production and includes a linked flow-line of computer numerically controlled machines with automated loading and assembly"

[craigjm]

liner33 said:

craigjm said:

It’s the third generation of the original engine launched in 1996. It was designed solely for Jaguar by Jaguar but under Ford ownership who retained the rights to the engine post sale and as such Ford build them on behalf of jaguar and sell them to JLR as a customer. The same is true of the 3.0 Diesel engine. The only engines that Jaguar owns the rights to and builds itself are the new Ingenium engines

Jaguar build them in a factory housed within a Ford Factory in South Wales


" The AJ8 engine is manufactured in an all-new, dedicated Jaguar facility located within the Ford Bridgend Engine Plant in Bridgend, South Wales. The Jaguar "plant-within-a-plant" saved considerable investment costs by Jaguar. It is staffed by workers dedicated to Jaguar engine production and includes a linked flow-line of computer numerically controlled machines with automated loading and assembly"

Jaguar do not build them. They are built by Ford on a specific line within their engine plant which is dedicated to the Jaguar engines and staffed by separate staff to the rest of the plant. The engines are still sold to Jaguar. It is not JLR squatting in a Ford plant. This was agreed as part of the sale to Tata so that Jaguar wouldn’t have to massively invest in new engines up front. Now that they have done that you will see, in the next few years, a move away from these engines designed under Ford ownership.

You may find the Financial Times a bit more of a legitimate source over Wikipedia

https://www.ft.com/content/8f4d948a-c509-38fb-8c3c...

Edited by craigjm on Thursday 2nd November 21:54

[Lambo FirstBlood]

craigjm said:

liner33 said:

craigjm said:

It’s the third generation of the original engine launched in 1996. It was designed solely for Jaguar by Jaguar but under Ford ownership who retained the rights to the engine post sale and as such Ford build them on behalf of jaguar and sell them to JLR as a customer. The same is true of the 3.0 Diesel engine. The only engines that Jaguar owns the rights to and builds itself are the new Ingenium engines

Jaguar build them in a factory housed within a Ford Factory in South Wales


" The AJ8 engine is manufactured in an all-new, dedicated Jaguar facility located within the Ford Bridgend Engine Plant in Bridgend, South Wales. The Jaguar "plant-within-a-plant" saved considerable investment costs by Jaguar. It is staffed by workers dedicated to Jaguar engine production and includes a linked flow-line of computer numerically controlled machines with automated loading and assembly"

Jaguar do not build them. They are built by Ford on a specific line within their engine plant which is dedicated to the Jaguar engines and staffed by separate staff to the rest of the plant. The engines are still sold to Jaguar. It is not JLR squatting in a Ford plant. This was agreed as part of the sale to Tata so that Jaguar wouldn’t have to massively invest in new engines up front. Now that they have done that you will see, in the next few years, a move away from these engines designed under Ford ownership.

You may find the Financial Times a bit more of a legitimate source over Wikipedia

https://www.ft.com/content/8f4d948a-c509-38fb-8c3c...

Edited by craigjm on Thursday 2nd November 21:54

I didn’t know this. I had assumed that the old 4.2 petrol was built on Ford’s watch and the new 5 litre versions were built in house. Always learning!

I’ve had an XJ Supersport for 6 years from new and it’s a great block. Not the most efficient but I love the way it feels.

Interestingly enough, when I ordered my project 8, I asked the SVO guys a lot of questions. They were quite content to confirm that there would be no V8 in an XE but they weren’t prepared to go on record to say that 600bhp was the most that could be made out of that engine!

[Ares]

Lambo FirstBlood said:

I didn’t know this. I had assumed that the old 4.2 petrol was built on Ford’s watch and the new 5 litre versions were built in house. Always learning!

I’ve had an XJ Supersport for 6 years from new and it’s a great block. Not the most efficient but I love the way it feels.

Interestingly enough, when I ordered my project 8, I asked the SVO guys a lot of questions. They were quite content to confirm that there would be no V8 in an XE but they weren’t prepared to go on record to say that 600bhp was the most that could be made out of that engine!

Thats what I'd been told too - shame, the XE needs a pokier lump.

Not surprised by the power potential. Supercharged 5.0 V8s have some of the highest old school outputs around

[liner33]

Lambo FirstBlood said:

Interestingly enough, when I ordered my project 8, I asked the SVO guys a lot of questions. They were quite content to confirm that there would be no V8 in an XE but they weren’t prepared to go on record to say that 600bhp was the most that could be made out of that engine!

You can get over 600hp out of the AJ-V8 series 3 , there are a few running 650hp

https://viezu.com/blog/viezu--vip-design-650bhp-ja...

[craigjm]

liner33 said:

You can get over 600hp out of the AJ-V8 series 3 , there are a few running 650hp

https://viezu.com/blog/viezu--vip-design-650bhp-ja...

That’s all well and good but they don’t have to back it with a three year manufacturers warranty (plus extensions). OEM manufacture always errs on the side of caution