RE: BMW M3 CS spied
Discussion
aaron_2000 said:
Agent XXX said:
Makes no sense when the Guilia is more powerful, faster, better looking, cheaper (substantially) and not a feckin BM
Other than your uneducated hate of BMW, I do actually agree with you which is weird. I don't like the pretentiousness of that speaker exhaust system, if they want it loud they should make it loud. If I wanted to hear car noise coming through speakers, I'd get a CD of the Lexus LFA. 2) Just because YOU want to hear YOUR exhaust, why should everyone else have to listen to it?
3) Not quite sure why piping exhaust sound in through speaker in pretentious?
Ares said:
aaron_2000 said:
Agent XXX said:
Makes no sense when the Guilia is more powerful, faster, better looking, cheaper (substantially) and not a feckin BM
Other than your uneducated hate of BMW, I do actually agree with you which is weird. I don't like the pretentiousness of that speaker exhaust system, if they want it loud they should make it loud. If I wanted to hear car noise coming through speakers, I'd get a CD of the Lexus LFA. 2) Just because YOU want to hear YOUR exhaust, why should everyone else have to listen to it?
3) Not quite sure why piping exhaust sound in through speaker in pretentious?
1) why are these drive by rules not affecting all the other marques?
2) no one is saying they want everyone else to hear it...what is required is real sounds
3) piped actual engine noise - ok, not pretentious.... piped fake stuff through speakers - bloody awful (I wouldn't use the word pretentious, but I see why others might)
I like BMW and I like the (LCI) F80 M3 to drive but 85k is a hell of a hike over the standard model.. however the E46 M3 CSL was a hell of a hike over the standard model and look at the values of that car compared to a standard car of the same mileage/condition; so providing history repeats itself, your initial outlay should be safely returned when the time to sell comes along.
GroundEffect said:
Agent XXX said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
the day BMW decided to start pumping fake engine noises through the speakers it was clear the accountants were in charge and the bottom line was everything, enthusiasts become an irrelevance
Quite. What IS that all about????Quickmoose said:
again
1) why are these drive by rules not affecting all the other marques?
2) no one is saying they want everyone else to hear it...what is required is real sounds
3) piped actual engine noise - ok, not pretentious.... piped fake stuff through speakers - bloody awful (I wouldn't use the word pretentious, but I see why others might)
1) They are. 1) why are these drive by rules not affecting all the other marques?
2) no one is saying they want everyone else to hear it...what is required is real sounds
3) piped actual engine noise - ok, not pretentious.... piped fake stuff through speakers - bloody awful (I wouldn't use the word pretentious, but I see why others might)
2) If you want it louder, but not piped, everyone has to hear it louder.
3) Not sure the mainstream manufacturers use fake noise? Most (claim to) just pipe in real sound?
RS Grant said:
I like BMW and I like the (LCI) F80 M3 to drive but 85k is a hell of a hike over the standard model.. however the E46 M3 CSL was a hell of a hike over the standard model and look at the values of that car compared to a standard car of the same mileage/condition; so providing history repeats itself, your initial outlay should be safely returned when the time to sell comes along.
The CSL was a far bigger shift than this though!Dave Hedgehog said:
GroundEffect said:
Agent XXX said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
the day BMW decided to start pumping fake engine noises through the speakers it was clear the accountants were in charge and the bottom line was everything, enthusiasts become an irrelevance
Quite. What IS that all about????Ares said:
Quickmoose said:
again
1) why are these drive by rules not affecting all the other marques?
2) no one is saying they want everyone else to hear it...what is required is real sounds
3) piped actual engine noise - ok, not pretentious.... piped fake stuff through speakers - bloody awful (I wouldn't use the word pretentious, but I see why others might)
1) They are. 1) why are these drive by rules not affecting all the other marques?
2) no one is saying they want everyone else to hear it...what is required is real sounds
3) piped actual engine noise - ok, not pretentious.... piped fake stuff through speakers - bloody awful (I wouldn't use the word pretentious, but I see why others might)
2) If you want it louder, but not piped, everyone has to hear it louder.
3) Not sure the mainstream manufacturers use fake noise? Most (claim to) just pipe in real sound?
...and again, (personally) I've no issue with piped REAL engine sound so as to protect the sensitive public. Its the FAKE engine noises played over the audio system - of which Audi and BMW have both done and are doing...
I don't understand any reason for that.
My F80 is a cracking car, flashing to the latest software and adding the M performance HAS kit rid it of any of the wayward tendencies it used to have, which were exaggerated in my opinion by some journalists and were annoying rather than dangerous.
As for the noise, on start up it's not good but once warm it's fine and you can't tell whether it's real or otherwise but they could have done a better job.
On a sweeping A road it's a delight to ping it into a corner and fire it out the other side, it still puts a smile on my face after 57,000 miles, you don't have to like them but it's a good car regardless and the rear arch flare is wonderful.
I'd love a CS version but the pricing is way off and a bit of joke and therefore out of my league.
As for the noise, on start up it's not good but once warm it's fine and you can't tell whether it's real or otherwise but they could have done a better job.
On a sweeping A road it's a delight to ping it into a corner and fire it out the other side, it still puts a smile on my face after 57,000 miles, you don't have to like them but it's a good car regardless and the rear arch flare is wonderful.
I'd love a CS version but the pricing is way off and a bit of joke and therefore out of my league.
Since when did a straight 6 twin turbo sound like a V10???? Ares the sound is generated by the speakers and its pathetic.
All of this farting and poping for show..... reminds me of the barry boys threads... but oh no if its a BMW its fine right? Its chavtastic!
Just to be clear I think they are fantastic cars but I have 0 tollerance for barry boy add ons.... remember the flamer kits on the saxo's?? Well I place this in the same bucket
All of this farting and poping for show..... reminds me of the barry boys threads... but oh no if its a BMW its fine right? Its chavtastic!
Just to be clear I think they are fantastic cars but I have 0 tollerance for barry boy add ons.... remember the flamer kits on the saxo's?? Well I place this in the same bucket
Edited by vz-r_dave on Wednesday 25th October 15:21
Quickmoose said:
As mentioned, Audi, Mercedes and Jaguar to name a few have no issue making cars whose natural unadorned sound enters the cabin in the normal way. Regardless of whether 'everyone' ahs to listen to it.
...and again, (personally) I've no issue with piped REAL engine sound so as to protect the sensitive public. Its the FAKE engine noises played over the audio system - of which Audi and BMW have both done and are doing...
I don't understand any reason for that.
I actually can't think of any new model Jag or Audi that sounds good (R8 excepted). The new RS5 sounds poor. The last decent sounding Audi was the 2012 RS6/RS7, ditto the 2013 F-Type. Merc are alone in making their current engines sounds epic, but unless the Merc salesman was wrong, the C63s uses piped in exhaust notes and both it, and the new E63 are noticeably quieter than their forebears....and again, (personally) I've no issue with piped REAL engine sound so as to protect the sensitive public. Its the FAKE engine noises played over the audio system - of which Audi and BMW have both done and are doing...
I don't understand any reason for that.
It is a s
t part of ever tightening regulations...turbo charging affecting things equally.vz-r_dave said:
Since when did a straight 6 twin turbo sound like a V10???? Ares the sound is generated by the speakers and its pathetic.
All of this farting and poping for show..... reminds me of the barry boys threads... but oh no if its a BMW its fine right? Its chavtastic!
What straight 6 sounds like a V10??All of this farting and poping for show..... reminds me of the barry boys threads... but oh no if its a BMW its fine right? Its chavtastic!
The noise inside the M3 is minimal, far far noisier outside. As for popping and banging, I agree. BMW are as big a culprit as anyone except maybe Audi that seem to give all their DSG equipped cars the Barry effect.
Ares said:
vz-r_dave said:
Since when did a straight 6 twin turbo sound like a V10???? Ares the sound is generated by the speakers and its pathetic.
All of this farting and poping for show..... reminds me of the barry boys threads... but oh no if its a BMW its fine right? Its chavtastic!
What straight 6 sounds like a V10??All of this farting and poping for show..... reminds me of the barry boys threads... but oh no if its a BMW its fine right? Its chavtastic!
The noise inside the M3 is minimal, far far noisier outside. As for popping and banging, I agree. BMW are as big a culprit as anyone except maybe Audi that seem to give all their DSG equipped cars the Barry effect.
I realise I am being a bit harsh but its just my take on speaker sounds, pet hate
Edited by vz-r_dave on Wednesday 25th October 15:34
vz-r_dave said:
Ares said:
vz-r_dave said:
Since when did a straight 6 twin turbo sound like a V10???? Ares the sound is generated by the speakers and its pathetic.
All of this farting and poping for show..... reminds me of the barry boys threads... but oh no if its a BMW its fine right? Its chavtastic!
What straight 6 sounds like a V10??All of this farting and poping for show..... reminds me of the barry boys threads... but oh no if its a BMW its fine right? Its chavtastic!
The noise inside the M3 is minimal, far far noisier outside. As for popping and banging, I agree. BMW are as big a culprit as anyone except maybe Audi that seem to give all their DSG equipped cars the Barry effect.
The noise inside is very much just a muted version of what you can hear outside. From the outside, the engine note isn't particular reminiscent of the BMW 6s of old, but there isn't a discernible difference between in and out aside form volume. IME.
As I say, I have no issue with piped in engine note, the anti-diesel brigade tell us noise is a huge part of the driver's driving experience.
Conversely, my car doesn't have piped in noise, it's no better/worse for it.
Ares said:
vz-r_dave said:
Ares said:
vz-r_dave said:
Since when did a straight 6 twin turbo sound like a V10???? Ares the sound is generated by the speakers and its pathetic.
All of this farting and poping for show..... reminds me of the barry boys threads... but oh no if its a BMW its fine right? Its chavtastic!
What straight 6 sounds like a V10??All of this farting and poping for show..... reminds me of the barry boys threads... but oh no if its a BMW its fine right? Its chavtastic!
The noise inside the M3 is minimal, far far noisier outside. As for popping and banging, I agree. BMW are as big a culprit as anyone except maybe Audi that seem to give all their DSG equipped cars the Barry effect.
The noise inside is very much just a muted version of what you can hear outside. From the outside, the engine note isn't particular reminiscent of the BMW 6s of old, but there isn't a discernible difference between in and out aside form volume. IME.
As I say, I have no issue with piped in engine note, the anti-diesel brigade tell us noise is a huge part of the driver's driving experience.
Conversely, my car doesn't have piped in noise, it's no better/worse for it.
vz-r_dave said:
Ares said:
vz-r_dave said:
Ares said:
vz-r_dave said:
Since when did a straight 6 twin turbo sound like a V10???? Ares the sound is generated by the speakers and its pathetic.
All of this farting and poping for show..... reminds me of the barry boys threads... but oh no if its a BMW its fine right? Its chavtastic!
What straight 6 sounds like a V10??All of this farting and poping for show..... reminds me of the barry boys threads... but oh no if its a BMW its fine right? Its chavtastic!
The noise inside the M3 is minimal, far far noisier outside. As for popping and banging, I agree. BMW are as big a culprit as anyone except maybe Audi that seem to give all their DSG equipped cars the Barry effect.
The noise inside is very much just a muted version of what you can hear outside. From the outside, the engine note isn't particular reminiscent of the BMW 6s of old, but there isn't a discernible difference between in and out aside form volume. IME.
As I say, I have no issue with piped in engine note, the anti-diesel brigade tell us noise is a huge part of the driver's driving experience.
Conversely, my car doesn't have piped in noise, it's no better/worse for it.
So on the whole, piped in fake noises via the speakers - bad.
Piped in noises from the actual engine - acceptable
Engine noises (loud or otherwise) heard in the tie honoured fashion - acceptable
Legislation on the volume of passenger road cars - probable
Quality of the noise cars male - decreasing due to engine/emission legislation
Some marques working within the rules producing non-fake nice sounding cars
Some marques working within the rules producing fake horrible sounding crap.
Piped in noises from the actual engine - acceptable
Engine noises (loud or otherwise) heard in the tie honoured fashion - acceptable
Legislation on the volume of passenger road cars - probable
Quality of the noise cars male - decreasing due to engine/emission legislation
Some marques working within the rules producing non-fake nice sounding cars
Some marques working within the rules producing fake horrible sounding crap.
RS Grant said:
I like BMW and I like the (LCI) F80 M3 to drive but 85k is a hell of a hike over the standard model.. however the E46 M3 CSL was a hell of a hike over the standard model and look at the values of that car compared to a standard car of the same mileage/condition; so providing history repeats itself, your initial outlay should be safely returned when the time to sell comes along.
In no way comparable though... the E46 M3 CSL was like a GT3 compared to a regular Carrera. The CS is not that different from a standard M3.Ares said:
vz-r_dave said:
Ares said:
vz-r_dave said:
Ares said:
vz-r_dave said:
Since when did a straight 6 twin turbo sound like a V10???? Ares the sound is generated by the speakers and its pathetic.
All of this farting and poping for show..... reminds me of the barry boys threads... but oh no if its a BMW its fine right? Its chavtastic!
What straight 6 sounds like a V10??All of this farting and poping for show..... reminds me of the barry boys threads... but oh no if its a BMW its fine right? Its chavtastic!
The noise inside the M3 is minimal, far far noisier outside. As for popping and banging, I agree. BMW are as big a culprit as anyone except maybe Audi that seem to give all their DSG equipped cars the Barry effect.
The noise inside is very much just a muted version of what you can hear outside. From the outside, the engine note isn't particular reminiscent of the BMW 6s of old, but there isn't a discernible difference between in and out aside form volume. IME.
As I say, I have no issue with piped in engine note, the anti-diesel brigade tell us noise is a huge part of the driver's driving experience.
Conversely, my car doesn't have piped in noise, it's no better/worse for it.
Quickmoose said:
GroundEffect said:
Agent XXX said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
the day BMW decided to start pumping fake engine noises through the speakers it was clear the accountants were in charge and the bottom line was everything, enthusiasts become an irrelevance
Quite. What IS that all about????I think it's a by-product of characterless engines.
When 21st century NSX needs to funnel (non fake) engine noises into the cabin to make it self heard you know there is an issue that is not down to noise legislation
1) Some homologation requirements are only valid beyond a certain volume per annum - Ferrari & Lambo probably get around that
2) Switchable exhausts are a way to pass the drive-by regulations but still give the driver what they want when needed - the regulations are getting tighter around these (i.e. they need to be more "difficult" to engage to pass homologation) and they are expensive
A reason why they go for speaker systems rather than symposers is purely cost; a symposer needs to be packaged, designed and tooled. An audio file just needs to be a calibrated feature in the infotainment system.
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