RE: BMW M3 CS spied
Discussion
robm3 said:
For some reason these new m3/4’s just leave me cold, perhaps because they stuffed the first versions up and charged more for the proper experience.
Ah well, maybe I’m getting old
Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy BMW engineering, in fact I have a 428i convertible (vert?) as my 'mileage mule' right now, it's done about 30K miles and still tight as drum, great economy, feels planted and lively etc...Ah well, maybe I’m getting old
It's just these new M3/4's don't grab me like the desire I had to get my first M3 (an E46). I actually think a 330i or 430i makes a more compelling case.
Strangely I'm off to test drive a giulia quadrifoglio (is that a 'foggy' in Brent speak then?) which I find myself more drawn too even though I know it'll let me down in so many ways a BMW product doesn't.
Oilchange said:
‘Foggy’ ? Yeah, that’s definitely ‘Brent’ speak for the Alfa, lol !
Have to wonder how it will behave as a long termer though. I have a 130,000 mile v6 Alfa which is anything but modern but I love it, however I dream about having a Quadrifoglio as a daily...
I had a '98 156 V6 (faults for 50,000/2yrs) and now run a Quadrifoglio as a daily driver. 3,500 miles in 3mths and zero problems so far.Have to wonder how it will behave as a long termer though. I have a 130,000 mile v6 Alfa which is anything but modern but I love it, however I dream about having a Quadrifoglio as a daily...
Aside from pre-production woes and the minor electrical gremlin that was corrected in March '17, they seem to be pretty good.
...and with Alfa now being given 5th place (and highest non-Japanese manufacturer) in What Car's reliability test, the tide could be turning.
But 'Foggy'...please no
Ares said:
I had a '98 156 V6 (faults for 50,000/2yrs) and now run a Quadrifoglio as a daily driver. 3,500 miles in 3mths and zero problems so far.
Aside from pre-production woes and the minor electrical gremlin that was corrected in March '17, they seem to be pretty good.
...and with Alfa now being given 5th place (and highest non-Japanese manufacturer) in What Car's reliability test, the tide could be turning.
But 'Foggy'...please no
For anybody interested I can give a perspective on a couple of the cars mentioned in this thread.Aside from pre-production woes and the minor electrical gremlin that was corrected in March '17, they seem to be pretty good.
...and with Alfa now being given 5th place (and highest non-Japanese manufacturer) in What Car's reliability test, the tide could be turning.
But 'Foggy'...please no
Firstly from April to July I owned an Alfa Quadrifoglio. In summary it is a brilliant car but mine was a terrible example. Multiple breakdowns culminating in leaving me stranded in Zurich for three days whilst in a trip to enjoy it in Italy. The car suffered all the faults that were documented by PH in their test vs the M3 and C63. Customer Service was poor in attempting to deal with the issues, and despite problems being cured by resetting fault codes they wouldn’t take the car in and actually diagnose the root causes. There is a fallacy perpetuated about pre-production cars. This is not the case, early production cars have suffered numerous faults, software alone does not fix the issues and there are two specific issues relating to the ECU positioning and Turbo wastegates. I know of a few rejected cars plus mine which I sold.
I replaced it with an M4 “Vert” comp pack. There is much to like about this car. It’s quick, comfortable, has great infotainment etc. But .... it is dull in comparison to the Alfa. The single biggest problem is the steering, I really really don’t like it, numb, inert, disconnected.
In summary I admire the BMW but I loved the Alfa.
The fact that I am seriously considering buying a 2018 model year Quadrifoglio tells its own story.
RSK21 said:
For anybody interested I can give a perspective on a couple of the cars mentioned in this thread.
Firstly from April to July I owned an Alfa Quadrifoglio. In summary it is a brilliant car but mine was a terrible example. Multiple breakdowns culminating in leaving me stranded in Zurich for three days whilst in a trip to enjoy it in Italy. The car suffered all the faults that were documented by PH in their test vs the M3 and C63. Customer Service was poor in attempting to deal with the issues, and despite problems being cured by resetting fault codes they wouldn’t take the car in and actually diagnose the root causes. There is a fallacy perpetuated about pre-production cars. This is not the case, early production cars have suffered numerous faults, software alone does not fix the issues and there are two specific issues relating to the ECU positioning and Turbo wastegates. I know of a few rejected cars plus mine which I sold.
I replaced it with an M4 “Vert” comp pack. There is much to like about this car. It’s quick, comfortable, has great infotainment etc. But .... it is dull in comparison to the Alfa. The single biggest problem is the steering, I really really don’t like it, numb, inert, disconnected.
In summary I admire the BMW but I loved the Alfa.
The fact that I am seriously considering buying a 2018 model year Quadrifoglio tells its own story.
Gutted for you to go through such hassle. I had the same with a 330d in 2000, its a real gutting experience when you do like the car. Hopefully all problems have been sorted, I've not heard of any post-May cars having issues.Firstly from April to July I owned an Alfa Quadrifoglio. In summary it is a brilliant car but mine was a terrible example. Multiple breakdowns culminating in leaving me stranded in Zurich for three days whilst in a trip to enjoy it in Italy. The car suffered all the faults that were documented by PH in their test vs the M3 and C63. Customer Service was poor in attempting to deal with the issues, and despite problems being cured by resetting fault codes they wouldn’t take the car in and actually diagnose the root causes. There is a fallacy perpetuated about pre-production cars. This is not the case, early production cars have suffered numerous faults, software alone does not fix the issues and there are two specific issues relating to the ECU positioning and Turbo wastegates. I know of a few rejected cars plus mine which I sold.
I replaced it with an M4 “Vert” comp pack. There is much to like about this car. It’s quick, comfortable, has great infotainment etc. But .... it is dull in comparison to the Alfa. The single biggest problem is the steering, I really really don’t like it, numb, inert, disconnected.
In summary I admire the BMW but I loved the Alfa.
The fact that I am seriously considering buying a 2018 model year Quadrifoglio tells its own story.
And I agree with the comparison/summation with the M4. I had an M3 in my sights until I drove the QV. Fabulous car, almost too capable, needs to be given 10/10ths to really feel alive....but that's well beyond the common sense and legal limits on the road.
For balance, after only 3000 miles my 2017 M3 DCT took two different dealers to diagnose and fix a fault with the gearbox (required replacement locking mechanism). The fault manifested as putting the car into neutral when stationary and subsequent failure of the stop-start system.
The iDrive around the apps has also been hit and miss, with apps disappearing all by themselves and needing a quick reset to sort out.
The iDrive around the apps has also been hit and miss, with apps disappearing all by themselves and needing a quick reset to sort out.
janesmith1950 said:
For balance, after only 3000 miles my 2017 M3 DCT took two different dealers to diagnose and fix a fault with the gearbox (required replacement locking mechanism). The fault manifested as putting the car into neutral when stationary and subsequent failure of the stop-start system.
The iDrive around the apps has also been hit and miss, with apps disappearing all by themselves and needing a quick reset to sort out.
Moral is, all cars can fail. Luckily, most failures are temporary, minor and easily rectified.The iDrive around the apps has also been hit and miss, with apps disappearing all by themselves and needing a quick reset to sort out.
Glad you have yours fixed. Nothing worse than having a great car in the service bay and a crap courtesy car on the drive.
All mainstream turbo charged cars are less soulful than the old equivalent model but the BMW is a good car all round. I took out a basic c63 coupe a few weeks ago and drove it fast and it was good but the m4 (mine) I thought was faster and it was sharper all round. I grant the s is faster though.
The cs is over priced though. But then a boxster atv75k is madness as well
The cs is over priced though. But then a boxster atv75k is madness as well
f1ten said:
All mainstream turbo charged cars are less soulful than the old equivalent model but the BMW is a good car all round. I took out a basic c63 coupe a few weeks ago and drove it fast and it was good but the m4 (mine) I thought was faster and it was sharper all round. I grant the s is faster though.
The cs is over priced though. But then a boxster atv75k is madness as well
I agree, driven fast, the M4/M3 is better than the C63/s, but as an every day proposition, I preferred the Merc.The cs is over priced though. But then a boxster atv75k is madness as well
Not quite sure what Boxster is £75k? Even the GTS is only just over £60k?
aaron_2000 said:
At this price, I'd be more looking towards a CSL, or if 4 doors was a must have then surely you could get a standard M3 and put some money into it. It'd be cheaper than this, and in some ways better.
But one is a 15yr old car. The other is sticking non-OEM/aftermarket modifications a new (or nearly new) car. Neither are really comparable.£85k may be poor value, but it needs to be compared like for like to be realistic or every new car could be deemed poor value.
Ares said:
But one is a 15yr old car. The other is sticking non-OEM/aftermarket modifications a new (or nearly new) car. Neither are really comparable.
£85k may be poor value, but it needs to be compared like for like to be realistic or every new car could be deemed poor value.
If a CSL being 15 years old means it all of a sudden can't be compared to the new model, then I'll change my answer to one of these (Note they are OEM parts btw):£85k may be poor value, but it needs to be compared like for like to be realistic or every new car could be deemed poor value.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
f1ten said:
Boxster gts with some spec is 72/75k
I must have a drive of one of of these alfas by the sounds of things. I salute people for buying them and they look lovely. Previous Alfa depreciation would scare me not that an m4 is good either !
£15k of option above a GTS is a heavy spec....but the base car is just over £60k...thats the comparison with an £85k M3. You can add options to both!I must have a drive of one of of these alfas by the sounds of things. I salute people for buying them and they look lovely. Previous Alfa depreciation would scare me not that an m4 is good either !
...and you must! They are staggering. And you avoid depreciation risks (and save money) by leasing
aaron_2000 said:
Ares said:
But one is a 15yr old car. The other is sticking non-OEM/aftermarket modifications a new (or nearly new) car. Neither are really comparable.
£85k may be poor value, but it needs to be compared like for like to be realistic or every new car could be deemed poor value.
If a CSL being 15 years old means it all of a sudden can't be compared to the new model, then I'll change my answer to one of these (Note they are OEM parts btw):£85k may be poor value, but it needs to be compared like for like to be realistic or every new car could be deemed poor value.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
You can't decry a new car at list price for being poor value by comparing it with an old car, otherwise every new car can be made to look like poor value.
aaron_2000 said:
Ares said:
Same old old Vs new argument.
You can't decry a new car at list price for being poor value by comparing it with an old car, otherwise every new car can be made to look like poor value.
Wasn't aware that a brand new GTR was an old car. My badYou can't decry a new car at list price for being poor value by comparing it with an old car, otherwise every new car can be made to look like poor value.
Not sure how many people would see a GTR as an M3 competitor.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff