One single thing that makes you think "knob" Vol 4
Discussion
Average speed cameras seem to bring out the worst in people.
Apart from those who dawdle in lane 2 and don't move back into lane 1 when possible (these morons are now almost in a majority on the major London arteries where roadspace is at a premium) there are the self-appointed vigilantes who dawdle in lane 3 travelling well below the limit, presumably 'to be on the safe side', causing congestion and dangerous jockeying behind, or mass undertaking and darting in.
I had a chance recently at some lights to ask one of these individuals politely why she was doing it and she was most insistent that she was in the right. She actually seemed to think it was her duty as a citizen.
Apart from those who dawdle in lane 2 and don't move back into lane 1 when possible (these morons are now almost in a majority on the major London arteries where roadspace is at a premium) there are the self-appointed vigilantes who dawdle in lane 3 travelling well below the limit, presumably 'to be on the safe side', causing congestion and dangerous jockeying behind, or mass undertaking and darting in.
I had a chance recently at some lights to ask one of these individuals politely why she was doing it and she was most insistent that she was in the right. She actually seemed to think it was her duty as a citizen.
runnerbean 14 said:
Average speed cameras seem to bring out the worst in people.
Apart from those who dawdle in lane 2 and don't move back into lane 1 when possible (these morons are now almost in a majority on the major London arteries where roadspace is at a premium) there are the self-appointed vigilantes who dawdle in lane 3 travelling well below the limit, presumably 'to be on the safe side', causing congestion and dangerous jockeying behind, or mass undertaking and darting in.
I had a chance recently at some lights to ask one of these individuals politely why she was doing it and she was most insistent that she was in the right. She actually seemed to think it was her duty as a citizen.
A lot of drivers don't understand ASC. They treat them as 'normal' SC, hence the need to speed between the ASC, followed by braking to be on limit as they pass the next camera. Totally erroneous, but hence the tailgating and gesticulation as they are frustrated by drivers who do understand and are obeying the limits for the duration of the ASC sections. Apart from those who dawdle in lane 2 and don't move back into lane 1 when possible (these morons are now almost in a majority on the major London arteries where roadspace is at a premium) there are the self-appointed vigilantes who dawdle in lane 3 travelling well below the limit, presumably 'to be on the safe side', causing congestion and dangerous jockeying behind, or mass undertaking and darting in.
I had a chance recently at some lights to ask one of these individuals politely why she was doing it and she was most insistent that she was in the right. She actually seemed to think it was her duty as a citizen.
runnerbean 14 said:
Average speed cameras seem to bring out the worst in people.
Apart from those who dawdle in lane 2 and don't move back into lane 1 when possible (these morons are now almost in a majority on the major London arteries where roadspace is at a premium) there are the self-appointed vigilantes who dawdle in lane 3 travelling well below the limit, presumably 'to be on the safe side', causing congestion and dangerous jockeying behind, or mass undertaking and darting in.
I had a chance recently at some lights to ask one of these individuals politely why she was doing it and she was most insistent that she was in the right. She actually seemed to think it was her duty as a citizen.
I find that I can make better progress sitting in L1 at an indicated 50 on the average speed section of M62 through the road works. A lot of people just seem to sit in L2 doing 45, along with people sat in L3 doing 46. Even backing off slightly as people join the motorway, they'll just move to L2 and sit with the slower traffic. Apart from those who dawdle in lane 2 and don't move back into lane 1 when possible (these morons are now almost in a majority on the major London arteries where roadspace is at a premium) there are the self-appointed vigilantes who dawdle in lane 3 travelling well below the limit, presumably 'to be on the safe side', causing congestion and dangerous jockeying behind, or mass undertaking and darting in.
I had a chance recently at some lights to ask one of these individuals politely why she was doing it and she was most insistent that she was in the right. She actually seemed to think it was her duty as a citizen.
Infuriating.
nonsequitur said:
A lot of drivers don't understand ASC. They treat them as 'normal' SC, hence the need to speed between the ASC, followed by braking to be on limit as they pass the next camera. Totally erroneous, but hence the tailgating and gesticulation as they are frustrated by drivers who do understand and are obeying the limits for the duration of the ASC sections.
The whole point of average speed cameras is that they measure your average speed, a lot of drivers don't understand this and think they measure your speed at every moment between the cameras. There's thus no excuse for sitting in an outside lane alongside other vehicles and not completing an overtake within a reasonable period.Kuji said:
LetsTryAgain said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
People who only think about themselves, are not taking account of the cumulative effect of numbers of drivers each leaving larger gaps than they need to, on the flow of traffic.
Each driver may only be causing a delay of 10 or so seconds, but add all those 10 second delays up before each car moves off, and they soon mount up to minutes or in some cases much longer. Plus they often prevent other drivers gaining access to a slip road ahead that they need, because the some of the cars in front, have not moved off, when they could do so, holding even more cars up in a traffic jam, that don't need to be there. A stopped car NEVER improves traffic flow.
The shunt / concertina effect is going to be less likely, and less serious, if a driver keeps a small gap between themselves and the car in front, than where a driver leaves a big gap, and only after an unnecessary delay decides to close it up.
A car behind can reach higher speeds in a 100 yard gap, than an 18 foot gap so leaving big gaps is more dangerous.
If a driver in traffic, cannot crawl behind the car in front with an 18 foot gap between them, they must consider whether they are safe to be driving on public roads.
At shuffling speeds a driver has to be seriously poor to allow his car to get brake fade. and if operating a clutch, brake and throttle pedal in a car in a slow moving line of traffic is too much for a car driver, they are either driving a vintage blower Bentley, or they cannot drive properly. Modern cars are piece of p*ss to drive slowly.
This is utter drivel.Each driver may only be causing a delay of 10 or so seconds, but add all those 10 second delays up before each car moves off, and they soon mount up to minutes or in some cases much longer. Plus they often prevent other drivers gaining access to a slip road ahead that they need, because the some of the cars in front, have not moved off, when they could do so, holding even more cars up in a traffic jam, that don't need to be there. A stopped car NEVER improves traffic flow.
The shunt / concertina effect is going to be less likely, and less serious, if a driver keeps a small gap between themselves and the car in front, than where a driver leaves a big gap, and only after an unnecessary delay decides to close it up.
A car behind can reach higher speeds in a 100 yard gap, than an 18 foot gap so leaving big gaps is more dangerous.
If a driver in traffic, cannot crawl behind the car in front with an 18 foot gap between them, they must consider whether they are safe to be driving on public roads.
At shuffling speeds a driver has to be seriously poor to allow his car to get brake fade. and if operating a clutch, brake and throttle pedal in a car in a slow moving line of traffic is too much for a car driver, they are either driving a vintage blower Bentley, or they cannot drive properly. Modern cars are piece of p*ss to drive slowly.
It is unquestionably better practice to maintain a manageable gap in order to keep rolling rather than stop start, stop start forevermore.
The ignorant t*rds are those who only think about themselves, and are not able to comprehend the cumulative effect on the flow of traffic, of all those, who think that not moving forward (and causing an unnecessary delay) in traffic, once the car in front has started moving off, is acceptable behaviour. Especially as there are likely to be many othere drivers behind who are trying to access a slip road, or turning, but cannot because drivers in front have chosen to sit there not moving, even when the rest of the traffic jam has moved off down the road.
With a one car gap in front, there is no reason whatsoever why the following vehicle should not start moving off at the same time, maintaining a one car gap, at exactly the same speed as the vehicle in front. \
The added time,and length of traffic jams comes from the cumulative time taken by each of those, who are too lazy, slow witted, or ignorant to move off, once the vehicle in front has done so.
Possibly they need time to wake up, or put down their mobile phones/games, and remember they are supposed to be driving a vehicle, or perhaps are too weak to operate the controls of their vehicle on a repeated basis, and need extra time, to regain their strength between each use of the clutch, brake and throttle. but they are quite definitely not helping to improve traffic flow in a jam. If anyone cannot maintain a one car gap either stopped, or moving at traffic jam speeds up to 10 mph, they definitely should not be driving on public roads at all.
Those saying anything more than a 1 car gap creates more problems than it solves clearly don't understand how it (it is supposed to) works.
I will quite happily allow a decent-sized gap to open up in front of me in a queue (assuming it's a significant queue) and then I will start moving, allowing my car to crawl forwards on idle.
Done correctly this sees me not having to touch the brakes or throttle at all until we reach the end of the jam as everytime the cars in front have to slow or stop, my speed and spacing allow me to soak up the stoppage with my "buffer zone" and remain moving. Far more relaxing and mechanically sympathetic to the car than continually having to dip the clutch and dab the brakes.
I will quite happily allow a decent-sized gap to open up in front of me in a queue (assuming it's a significant queue) and then I will start moving, allowing my car to crawl forwards on idle.
Done correctly this sees me not having to touch the brakes or throttle at all until we reach the end of the jam as everytime the cars in front have to slow or stop, my speed and spacing allow me to soak up the stoppage with my "buffer zone" and remain moving. Far more relaxing and mechanically sympathetic to the car than continually having to dip the clutch and dab the brakes.
People who in heavy traffic let large gaps open up in front of them are the worst of all.
They should consider that if they allow a gap of 2 or more car lengths in front of them then that's 2 or more fewer cars behind them that are able to get through before the traffic light they just passed turns red again.
Or rather they don't consider.
There's a word that describes people who fail to consider others.
They should consider that if they allow a gap of 2 or more car lengths in front of them then that's 2 or more fewer cars behind them that are able to get through before the traffic light they just passed turns red again.
Or rather they don't consider.
There's a word that describes people who fail to consider others.
In average speed camera zones in motorways people behave like they are playing that Musical Statues game that kids play at parties.
You enter the 50 zone and the music stops and you have to freeze. Don't keep left or obey any other rules, dont attempt to pass or pull in behind other traffic. Just freeze at 50 ( or 42 to be on the safe side ) until the music comes back on or you pass the Fast As You Dare sign ( or 800 yards after when you realise everyone else is back up to speed so it must be ok now )
You enter the 50 zone and the music stops and you have to freeze. Don't keep left or obey any other rules, dont attempt to pass or pull in behind other traffic. Just freeze at 50 ( or 42 to be on the safe side ) until the music comes back on or you pass the Fast As You Dare sign ( or 800 yards after when you realise everyone else is back up to speed so it must be ok now )
nonsequitur said:
A lot of drivers don't understand ASC. They treat them as 'normal' SC, hence the need to speed between the ASC, followed by braking to be on limit as they pass the next camera. Totally erroneous, but hence the tailgating and gesticulation as they are frustrated by drivers who do understand and are obeying the limits for the duration of the ASC sections.
I mostly disagree, but it's all empirical isn't it.I am continuously held up by morons needlessly plodding along at 45 in L3 on the M4. I'm not trying to speed - although I agree that an alarming number of drivers don't understand the concept of an average measurement.
I would however like to do 50, or at least not be held back by some nitwit with poor lane discipline when L2 is free.
jamei303 said:
nonsequitur said:
A lot of drivers don't understand ASC. They treat them as 'normal' SC, hence the need to speed between the ASC, followed by braking to be on limit as they pass the next camera. Totally erroneous, but hence the tailgating and gesticulation as they are frustrated by drivers who do understand and are obeying the limits for the duration of the ASC sections.
The whole point of average speed cameras is that they measure your average speed, a lot of drivers don't understand this and think they measure your speed at every moment between the cameras. There's thus no excuse for sitting in an outside lane alongside other vehicles and not completing an overtake within a reasonable period.nonsequitur said:
A lot of drivers don't understand ASC. They treat them as 'normal' SC, hence the need to speed between the ASC, followed by braking to be on limit as they pass the next camera. Totally erroneous, but hence the tailgating and gesticulation as they are frustrated by drivers who do understand and are obeying the limits for the duration of the ASC sections.
Yes as I steam through on the secret lane at 60, they're all looking over at me saying to their passengers "Look at him, he's totally erroneous" while they road-captain at 45 in the overtaking lane.The fixed camera by John Lewis on the A34 Avenue of the Self-Entitled at Cheeedle Hyoom does go off at 57 though.
Wooda80 said:
In average speed camera zones in motorways people behave like they are playing that Musical Statues game that kids play at parties.
You enter the 50 zone and the music stops and you have to freeze. Don't keep left or obey any other rules, dont attempt to pass or pull in behind other traffic. Just freeze at 50 ( or 42 to be on the safe side ) until the music comes back on or you pass the Fast As You Dare sign ( or 800 yards after when you realise everyone else is back up to speed so it must be ok now )
I can't blame any driver for being cautious in ASC zones. Those camersa take no prisoners. There is no human contact until the speeding ticket drops on your mat. They are totally automatic.You enter the 50 zone and the music stops and you have to freeze. Don't keep left or obey any other rules, dont attempt to pass or pull in behind other traffic. Just freeze at 50 ( or 42 to be on the safe side ) until the music comes back on or you pass the Fast As You Dare sign ( or 800 yards after when you realise everyone else is back up to speed so it must be ok now )
Anyway, 42 in a 50 is not slow.
Please take a deep breath and think of the moment the zone ends and you can make up the time you 'lost'.
.Wooda80 said:
Yes as I steam through on the secret lane at 60, they're all looking over at me saying to their passengers "Look at him, he's totally erroneous" while they road-captain at 45 in the overtaking lane.
The fixed camera by John Lewis on the A34 Avenue of the Self-Entitled at Cheeedle Hyoom does go off at 57 though.
Sarcasm becomes you, Woody.The fixed camera by John Lewis on the A34 Avenue of the Self-Entitled at Cheeedle Hyoom does go off at 57 though.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Kuji said:
LetsTryAgain said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
People who only think about themselves, are not taking account of the cumulative effect of numbers of drivers each leaving larger gaps than they need to, on the flow of traffic.
Each driver may only be causing a delay of 10 or so seconds, but add all those 10 second delays up before each car moves off, and they soon mount up to minutes or in some cases much longer. Plus they often prevent other drivers gaining access to a slip road ahead that they need, because the some of the cars in front, have not moved off, when they could do so, holding even more cars up in a traffic jam, that don't need to be there. A stopped car NEVER improves traffic flow.
The shunt / concertina effect is going to be less likely, and less serious, if a driver keeps a small gap between themselves and the car in front, than where a driver leaves a big gap, and only after an unnecessary delay decides to close it up.
A car behind can reach higher speeds in a 100 yard gap, than an 18 foot gap so leaving big gaps is more dangerous.
If a driver in traffic, cannot crawl behind the car in front with an 18 foot gap between them, they must consider whether they are safe to be driving on public roads.
At shuffling speeds a driver has to be seriously poor to allow his car to get brake fade. and if operating a clutch, brake and throttle pedal in a car in a slow moving line of traffic is too much for a car driver, they are either driving a vintage blower Bentley, or they cannot drive properly. Modern cars are piece of p*ss to drive slowly.
This is utter drivel.Each driver may only be causing a delay of 10 or so seconds, but add all those 10 second delays up before each car moves off, and they soon mount up to minutes or in some cases much longer. Plus they often prevent other drivers gaining access to a slip road ahead that they need, because the some of the cars in front, have not moved off, when they could do so, holding even more cars up in a traffic jam, that don't need to be there. A stopped car NEVER improves traffic flow.
The shunt / concertina effect is going to be less likely, and less serious, if a driver keeps a small gap between themselves and the car in front, than where a driver leaves a big gap, and only after an unnecessary delay decides to close it up.
A car behind can reach higher speeds in a 100 yard gap, than an 18 foot gap so leaving big gaps is more dangerous.
If a driver in traffic, cannot crawl behind the car in front with an 18 foot gap between them, they must consider whether they are safe to be driving on public roads.
At shuffling speeds a driver has to be seriously poor to allow his car to get brake fade. and if operating a clutch, brake and throttle pedal in a car in a slow moving line of traffic is too much for a car driver, they are either driving a vintage blower Bentley, or they cannot drive properly. Modern cars are piece of p*ss to drive slowly.
It is unquestionably better practice to maintain a manageable gap in order to keep rolling rather than stop start, stop start forevermore.
The ignorant t*rds are those who only think about themselves, and are not able to comprehend the cumulative effect on the flow of traffic, of all those, who think that not moving forward (and causing an unnecessary delay) in traffic, once the car in front has started moving off, is acceptable behaviour. Especially as there are likely to be many othere drivers behind who are trying to access a slip road, or turning, but cannot because drivers in front have chosen to sit there not moving, even when the rest of the traffic jam has moved off down the road.
With a one car gap in front, there is no reason whatsoever why the following vehicle should not start moving off at the same time, maintaining a one car gap, at exactly the same speed as the vehicle in front. \
The added time,and length of traffic jams comes from the cumulative time taken by each of those, who are too lazy, slow witted, or ignorant to move off, once the vehicle in front has done so.
Possibly they need time to wake up, or put down their mobile phones/games, and remember they are supposed to be driving a vehicle, or perhaps are too weak to operate the controls of their vehicle on a repeated basis, and need extra time, to regain their strength between each use of the clutch, brake and throttle. but they are quite definitely not helping to improve traffic flow in a jam. If anyone cannot maintain a one car gap either stopped, or moving at traffic jam speeds up to 10 mph, they definitely should not be driving on public roads at all.
RSTurboPaul said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Kuji said:
LetsTryAgain said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
leaving space bad
space good Those who are saying it is a bad thing keep saying that a stopped car is NEVER good for traffic. This is true, which is why it's best to keep the flow rolling, albeit slowly, by leaving a bit of breathing space. If everyone did this there would be vastly less stop/start traffic.
Surely?
ETA: edited to try and fix multi-quote madness
Edited by deadtom on Monday 2nd December 11:02
https://youtu.be/7wm-pZp_mi0
https://youtu.be/Q78Kb4uLAdA
https://youtu.be/iHzzSao6ypE
Don’t ever stop, even if a big gap opens up within 20 seconds you will have closed it again as they will have stopped.
https://youtu.be/Q78Kb4uLAdA
https://youtu.be/iHzzSao6ypE
Don’t ever stop, even if a big gap opens up within 20 seconds you will have closed it again as they will have stopped.
Edited by Slow on Monday 2nd December 12:26
deadtom said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Kuji said:
LetsTryAgain said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
leaving space bad
space good Those who are saying it is a bad thing keep saying that a stopped car is NEVER good for traffic. This is true, which is why it's best to keep the flow rolling, albeit slowly, by leaving a bit of breathing space. If everyone did this there would be vastly less stop/start traffic.
Surely?
ETA: edited to try and fix multi-quote madness
Edited by deadtom on Monday 2nd December 11:02
Those who think it is OK to leave large gaps, don't seem to understand the cumulative effect of what they are doing to traffic flow, in both time, and distance, Each big gap leaver needlessly adds many yards to the overall length of a traffic jam. each big gap leaver needlessly adds to the time taken for the cars behind to get through the traffic jam.
Instead of moving off, as soon as the car in front starts to move, maintaining a one car gap. they leave big gaps, which then leads to a concertina effect on traffic flow, and as posted before can prevent many other cars behind, who are trying to access the next slip road from doing so.
This happened to me on a motorway near Sheffield. I was trying to get to the next off slip, but could not reach it, because an ignorant selfish gap leaver several cars in front was stopped there, with an enormous gap between his car, and the next car, hundreds of yards up the road.
When the selfish ignorant s*d finally deigned to move up, I and heaven knows how many cars behind, which all needed the same slip road, were only then able to get to the slip road and be on our way, All because of a single ignorant selfish big gap leaver.
Even this does not take into account the fact, that where big gap leavers are on motorways, it is likely that cars from the other lanes will see the big gap as a way of getting forward, and move into, and fill the gap, before the big gap leaver even starts to move off.
Meaning the lane, with the big gap leaver in it, hardly moves forward at all, whilst the lanes on either side, are able to make progress through the traffic jam.
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