Pirelli P-Zero Corsas & Cold Weather
Discussion
AmosMoses said:
Quite, i also drove the MX5 in the snow and Ice with non winter tyres and i didn't die.
Come on people, what did we do before winter tyres and rain specific ones? We drove better!
It's not about 'normal' tyres being used in winter, its about paying the extra-over a 'normal' P Zero tyre for one that's got an even greater 'track focussed' design and expecting there not to be any compromise at the other end of it's performance. You wouldn't expect a winter specific tyre to perform as well as the Corsa on a nice dry sunny track day, so it's only right that you should be a little cautious about using a sticky summer track tyre through the winter.Come on people, what did we do before winter tyres and rain specific ones? We drove better!
We coped OK before winter tyres because nobody (sensible) was running sticky track-day rubber in the winter slush.
Ares said:
Herbs said:
He wrote "skittish" which is exactly how various cars i've had on similar felt. severely reduced grip when cold - got a bit better once they had warmed up but still not great. I'm not a huge fan of winter tyres so i'm not saying change them but be very aware as it only takes once to get caught out.
Lovely car by the way!
OK. I wouldn't have put 'skittish' as 'severely reduced grip', but thanks for the info. Lovely car by the way!
Edited by Herbs on Friday 27th October 12:50
I'm a big fan of winter tyres, when there is a proper winter. We no longer get proper winters here, and on the basis of how minimal the difference was this morning in 2 degrees, the usual UK winters of fluctuation between 0 and 12 degrees would suggest that I'm not over likely to die a horrible fiery death by running Corsas over winter
It's more the greatly reduced spectrum between grip and "oh f
k" , there can be very little margin in it sometimes. The Z4M I had in winter would regularly get the rear end out by 20 degrees or so when pulling out of junctions in the country even with the traction control on when the tyres were cold which highlighted how little grip there was at that point. When warm or outside of winter, the over nannying TC wouldnt give you more than a couple of degrees before it killed the power.The Surveyor said:
AmosMoses said:
Quite, i also drove the MX5 in the snow and Ice with non winter tyres and i didn't die.
Come on people, what did we do before winter tyres and rain specific ones? We drove better!
It's not about 'normal' tyres being used in winter, its about paying the extra-over a 'normal' P Zero tyre for one that's got an even greater 'track focussed' design and expecting there not to be any compromise at the other end of it's performance. You wouldn't expect a winter specific tyre to perform as well as the Corsa on a nice dry sunny track day, so it's only right that you should be a little cautious about using a sticky summer track tyre through the winter.Come on people, what did we do before winter tyres and rain specific ones? We drove better!
We coped OK before winter tyres because nobody (sensible) was running sticky track-day rubber in the winter slush.
MrBarry123 said:
Talk about scaremongering...
Don't forget the old "drive to the conditions" whilst your at it...
..I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that there are too many drivers who have very limited experience of changeable conditions and a unshakable belief in their driving skills...not a good combination..
Even colder this morning, -3 degrees. Definitely see the comment about the tyres feeling like they were made of concrete, not with grip which remained good, albeit with a common sense filter of not driving like I was setting sector records, but despite all four tyres being 0.3 bar lower pressure, the ride was rock solid and left as if the tyres were overinflated.
Soon settled as they warmed though.
Corsa cold weather performance woes are either wildly exaggerated, or only relevant on the absolute limit of performance.
As you were....
Soon settled as they warmed though.
Corsa cold weather performance woes are either wildly exaggerated, or only relevant on the absolute limit of performance.
As you were....
Ares said:
Even colder this morning, -3 degrees. Definitely see the comment about the tyres feeling like they were made of concrete, not with grip which remained good, albeit with a common sense filter of not driving like I was setting sector records, but despite all four tyres being 0.3 bar lower pressure, the ride was rock solid and left as if the tyres were overinflated.
Soon settled as they warmed though.
Corsa cold weather performance woes are either wildly exaggerated, or only relevant on the absolute limit of performance.
As you were....
-3?? Jeez! Soon settled as they warmed though.
Corsa cold weather performance woes are either wildly exaggerated, or only relevant on the absolute limit of performance.
As you were....
Don't forget it's not about being wildly exaggerated, it's about the time when you are doing 60 on a damp road with cold temperatures and it throws a corner with a bit of adverse camber at you and the car slides enough to spot you off.
95 percent of the time you will be fine
Herbs said:
Ares said:
Even colder this morning, -3 degrees. Definitely see the comment about the tyres feeling like they were made of concrete, not with grip which remained good, albeit with a common sense filter of not driving like I was setting sector records, but despite all four tyres being 0.3 bar lower pressure, the ride was rock solid and left as if the tyres were overinflated.
Soon settled as they warmed though.
Corsa cold weather performance woes are either wildly exaggerated, or only relevant on the absolute limit of performance.
As you were....
-3?? Jeez! Soon settled as they warmed though.
Corsa cold weather performance woes are either wildly exaggerated, or only relevant on the absolute limit of performance.
As you were....
Don't forget it's not about being wildly exaggerated, it's about the time when you are doing 60 on a damp road with cold temperatures and it throws a corner with a bit of adverse camber at you and the car slides enough to spot you off.
95 percent of the time you will be fine
Started a thread similar a while back, my CLS was definitely a bit skittish as temps dropped, but it was probably down to almost 400 bhp, almost two tonnes and me before the tyres.
The engines in modern cars just provide so much power and torque, which gives us that lovely acceleration, the weak link (apart from us) is the tyres, four small patches of rubber that do all the work attaching over enthusiastic driver and car to variable, usually wet or damp road surfaces.
If any modern, quality tyre isnt performing, time to slow down and back off the gas until summer, getting winters or all seasons will help but, only to a point, main thing is to just err on the side of caution and restraint.
Ask yourself, if you had 120 bhp and drove to speed limits with no hard acceleration, would it still be a problem ?
The engines in modern cars just provide so much power and torque, which gives us that lovely acceleration, the weak link (apart from us) is the tyres, four small patches of rubber that do all the work attaching over enthusiastic driver and car to variable, usually wet or damp road surfaces.
If any modern, quality tyre isnt performing, time to slow down and back off the gas until summer, getting winters or all seasons will help but, only to a point, main thing is to just err on the side of caution and restraint.
Ask yourself, if you had 120 bhp and drove to speed limits with no hard acceleration, would it still be a problem ?
Ares said:
Herbs said:
Ares said:
Even colder this morning, -3 degrees. Definitely see the comment about the tyres feeling like they were made of concrete, not with grip which remained good, albeit with a common sense filter of not driving like I was setting sector records, but despite all four tyres being 0.3 bar lower pressure, the ride was rock solid and left as if the tyres were overinflated.
Soon settled as they warmed though.
Corsa cold weather performance woes are either wildly exaggerated, or only relevant on the absolute limit of performance.
As you were....
-3?? Jeez! Soon settled as they warmed though.
Corsa cold weather performance woes are either wildly exaggerated, or only relevant on the absolute limit of performance.
As you were....
Don't forget it's not about being wildly exaggerated, it's about the time when you are doing 60 on a damp road with cold temperatures and it throws a corner with a bit of adverse camber at you and the car slides enough to spot you off.
95 percent of the time you will be fine
xjay1337 said:
High performance road tyres will not work AS WELL in colder temperatures as they would in hot temperatures.
That is a fact.
The actual amount of performance difference would be negligible on the road in normal driving conditions.
The bolded bit is the part that the PH tyre bores seem to completely ignore. It's 101% or nothing in their view - and tyres are either a deathtrap, or perfectly safe.That is a fact.
The actual amount of performance difference would be negligible on the road in normal driving conditions.
I grew up in an area which was frequently snowy/icy etc., and none of my family ever considered using "winter" tyres. We only died the once, so it can't be a big issue.
alorotom said:
Herbs said:
You've never driven a lightweight RWD sports car in heavy rain without traction control on fast A roads or motorways then.
So not a specific set of circumstances at all then! not really. Any idea how often it rains and how many motorways and A roads in the UK.
Impressive contribution to the debate though
I have regular P Zeros on my car (400bhp+ RWD) and they were atorcious this morning, temp was 3 degrees but road bone dry. Moderately accelerating in third up a hill the back end was squirming around all over the place. Going to replace them with Michelin Pilot Sports once they are down to 3mm.
CaptainSensib1e said:
I have regular P Zeros on my car (400bhp+ RWD) and they were atorcious this morning, temp was 3 degrees but road bone dry. Moderately accelerating in third up a hill the back end was squirming around all over the place. Going to replace them with Michelin Pilot Sports once they are down to 3mm.
Really?I was 6 degree colder, 100bhp more, and mine were planted even on fairly decent throttle?
Ares said:
CaptainSensib1e said:
I have regular P Zeros on my car (400bhp+ RWD) and they were atorcious this morning, temp was 3 degrees but road bone dry. Moderately accelerating in third up a hill the back end was squirming around all over the place. Going to replace them with Michelin Pilot Sports once they are down to 3mm.
Really?I was 6 degree colder, 100bhp more, and mine were planted even on fairly decent throttle?
Still intrigued by the Corsas in cold weather.
-2 this morning, and didn't increase over 10 miles/15 minutes. Icy roads where left untreated, but other wise dry.
Tyres felt hard for first few miles, as suggested before, as if they were made from concrete, and grip not as good. But soon warmed up.
Pressures increased 0.3bar over 10mins as they got warmer and performance seemed pretty much normal then.
-2 this morning, and didn't increase over 10 miles/15 minutes. Icy roads where left untreated, but other wise dry.
Tyres felt hard for first few miles, as suggested before, as if they were made from concrete, and grip not as good. But soon warmed up.
Pressures increased 0.3bar over 10mins as they got warmer and performance seemed pretty much normal then.
I have found the P Zero Corsas to be great tyres in the dry or wet, but decided that I would plump for Conti Winter Tyres for the next 5 months. Having done a few miles on them are they as good as the Corsas when its warm and dry - NO, when cold and wet and I can’t get any heat in the tyres, this is when the Conti’s come into their own. I’ve never had Winter Tyres before, usually just put up with it (previous car - 510bhp rear wheel drive), but I fancied trying this year.
The upside is I have Corsas to look forward to in April, and should conditions get very poor, then I can get up snowy hills! I would say the Corsas were about 90% of their best in the warm and the Conti’s are about 85% of the Pirellis, so given the potential benefits over Winter I’m happy to them a try.
The upside is I have Corsas to look forward to in April, and should conditions get very poor, then I can get up snowy hills! I would say the Corsas were about 90% of their best in the warm and the Conti’s are about 85% of the Pirellis, so given the potential benefits over Winter I’m happy to them a try.
Ares said:
Still intrigued by the Corsas in cold weather.
-2 this morning, and didn't increase over 10 miles/15 minutes. Icy roads where left untreated, but other wise dry.
Tyres felt hard for first few miles, as suggested before, as if they were made from concrete, and grip not as good. But soon warmed up.
Pressures increased 0.3bar over 10mins as they got warmer and performance seemed pretty much normal then.
"But otherwise dry" - that's the key comment.-2 this morning, and didn't increase over 10 miles/15 minutes. Icy roads where left untreated, but other wise dry.
Tyres felt hard for first few miles, as suggested before, as if they were made from concrete, and grip not as good. But soon warmed up.
Pressures increased 0.3bar over 10mins as they got warmer and performance seemed pretty much normal then.
In the warm, wet or dry, they're great.
In the cold traction is a bit of a problem until you get heat into them but that's quite easy to do.
In the cold AND wet they are truly horrendous. I suggest you post back on here your experiences in those conditions. Then you'll know what the fuss is about. It's not lack of traction (which you can deal with, or the traction control can deal with), it's a total lack of grip and you can't really do much about it because you can't get any heat into the tyres. Having been on a skid pan with the Quadrifoglio in the summer on the Corsas I think the traction control is absolutely fantastic. 1st gear on a wet circle and floor it and you can't lose it unless in Race mode. But if theres no grip from the tyres then that means nothing - no traction control can overcome the laws of physics.
Take care in the cold and wet. The rest of the time enjoy.
It's not even winter yet either!
Edited by smarty156 on Friday 24th November 19:06
Edited by smarty156 on Friday 24th November 19:12
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