RE: Goodbye STI - Subaru calls time on the WRX
Discussion
daemon said:
V88Dicky said:
warch said:
The STI is nowhere near as usable as a Focus RS or a Golf R, people want fuel economy and a reasonable tax bracket when they choose a car these days, even in this type of car. Plus both of these are slightly cheaper, and I'd have thought cheaper to service and repair.
Bear in mind that any car probably spends at least half it's time pootling along in traffic then 35-40mpg has it's appeal, regardless of how much better a car is on the limit. Economy is much less of an issue in Aus or Merica for obvious reasons.
Ironically, since 01/04/2017 a brand new STI will be £140 pa whereas the Golf will be £535 due to its list price being over £40kBear in mind that any car probably spends at least half it's time pootling along in traffic then 35-40mpg has it's appeal, regardless of how much better a car is on the limit. Economy is much less of an issue in Aus or Merica for obvious reasons.
https://broadspeed.com/new_cars/Volkswagen/Golf/Ch...
Could not resist it ordered one of the 150 today in of course WR blue.
I tested new type R ,Golf R but in the end the STi won ! It's just that kind of more analogue feel that makes it different.I know the Type R and R are more comfortable better equipment I guess it's all down to the individual or maybe the fact that I was up at the WRC in Wales last weekend :-)!!
I tested new type R ,Golf R but in the end the STi won ! It's just that kind of more analogue feel that makes it different.I know the Type R and R are more comfortable better equipment I guess it's all down to the individual or maybe the fact that I was up at the WRC in Wales last weekend :-)!!
andymac said:
Could not resist it ordered one of the 150 today in of course WR blue.
I tested new type R ,Golf R but in the end the STi won ! It's just that kind of more analogue feel that makes it different.I know the Type R and R are more comfortable better equipment I guess it's all down to the individual or maybe the fact that I was up at the WRC in Wales last weekend :-)!!
Well done, excellent choice and very envious.I tested new type R ,Golf R but in the end the STi won ! It's just that kind of more analogue feel that makes it different.I know the Type R and R are more comfortable better equipment I guess it's all down to the individual or maybe the fact that I was up at the WRC in Wales last weekend :-)!!
It's definitely a hardcore drivers car that only a small number of drivers will appreciate and has a personality that mainstream cars simply don't have these days.
andymac said:
Could not resist it ordered one of the 150 today in of course WR blue.
I tested new type R ,Golf R but in the end the STi won ! It's just that kind of more analogue feel that makes it different.I know the Type R and R are more comfortable better equipment I guess it's all down to the individual or maybe the fact that I was up at the WRC in Wales last weekend :-)!!
Excellent!I tested new type R ,Golf R but in the end the STi won ! It's just that kind of more analogue feel that makes it different.I know the Type R and R are more comfortable better equipment I guess it's all down to the individual or maybe the fact that I was up at the WRC in Wales last weekend :-)!!
One one have been on our radar however my wife needs an auto as she has arthritis. We loved our WRX-S when we had it though a number of years ago.
warch said:
This is part of the problem though. Mitisubishi and Subaru have no rallying presence anymore...
They (Subaru in particular) are still fairly dominant in production class rallying around the world, national championships etc. There is much more to rallying than just WRC.Maybe Subaru should have spent more money on cheating at emissions/fuel economy tests to get better headline figures like VW, real world owners seem to report much closer fuel economy figures between the STI and Golf R than the official figures suggest. Combine that with plenty of marketing and you might have a recipe for succeeding in the UK.
Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 2nd November 19:33
TroubledSoul said:
Weird. They're not giving up on it in Japan and the US are they? So the spiel about heritage and new models etc. doesn't really add up.
Just the snobbish UK market would rather go for other models. They have to totally reinvent themselves and come up with something different otherwise see sales fade into the sunset.culpz said:
It's a real shame, as it is with Mitsubishi killing off the EVO. Well, for now, anyway. Manufacturers are really killing off the good stuff right now, in favour of hybrids, SUV's and just generic, ordinary vehicles. That's the kind of thing that sells now, though. I'm gutted that VW has recently axed the Scirocco, too.
Didn't even realise the Scirocco was axed, I hardly even see them anymore, thought they killed it off around 2-3 years ago.Charlie Boy said:
International Motors (IM Group) imports and markets Subaru in the UK. Imo they haven't done justice to the brand for a decade or so which is a massive shame. Maybe Subaru proper should takeover selling their own vehicles as it seems strange that a brand that out sells VW in the US can't sell more than a hand full of cars a year in the uk! I guess is doesn't help that the website is dreadful and some the dealers seem to be attached to MG/Saanyong ones..
Think its a matter of the market. People have gravitated back to cars like Vauxhall, Ford, VW, Renault where their models in the late 90's were being stopped. Swings & roundabouts.mrnoisy78 said:
Disagree.
When I had an Impreza I didn’t yearn for it to be dull, unexciting and very middle of the road like a Golf R. It was exciting to drive, something that so many “hot” hatches lack in spades today.
The real issue in my eyes is that subaru haven’t updated their powerplant - it’s had the same 2.5 engine for the last 12 years and it’s tired - they needed a twin scroll modernised unit, and they haven’t delivered on that, instead the car has gotten heavier and they’ve tried to make it more refined without addressing the terrible mpg and emissions which is the more likely candidate putting people off!
The Impreza has “proper” AWD, not part time mostly FWD etc. It sounded better than any Focus RS or Golf.
The new Honda Type R was the only thing I found truly exciting to drive in the *affordable* new hot Hatch sector but it looked like a dogs dinner - the FK2 was better looking but rode too hard.
The manufacturers need to stop dumbing down and adding weight - I prefer the back to basics myself!
The noise was one of the worst things I hated about the Scooby, sounded atrocious, worst with the 90's models with the stupid stick your arm in exhaust pipe.When I had an Impreza I didn’t yearn for it to be dull, unexciting and very middle of the road like a Golf R. It was exciting to drive, something that so many “hot” hatches lack in spades today.
The real issue in my eyes is that subaru haven’t updated their powerplant - it’s had the same 2.5 engine for the last 12 years and it’s tired - they needed a twin scroll modernised unit, and they haven’t delivered on that, instead the car has gotten heavier and they’ve tried to make it more refined without addressing the terrible mpg and emissions which is the more likely candidate putting people off!
The Impreza has “proper” AWD, not part time mostly FWD etc. It sounded better than any Focus RS or Golf.
The new Honda Type R was the only thing I found truly exciting to drive in the *affordable* new hot Hatch sector but it looked like a dogs dinner - the FK2 was better looking but rode too hard.
The manufacturers need to stop dumbing down and adding weight - I prefer the back to basics myself!
GravelBen said:
They (Subaru in particular) are still fairly dominant in production class rallying around the world, national championships etc. There is much more to rallying than just WRC.
Maybe Subaru should have spent more money on cheating at emissions/fuel economy tests to get better headline figures like VW, real world owners seem to report much closer fuel economy figures between the STI and Golf R than the official figures suggest. Combine that with plenty of marketing and you might have a recipe for succeeding in the UK.
You are absolutely right, there are plenty competing in the Btrda etc, I should have said at top level, which in my mind is inferior anyway. My point was that the average buyer no longer has that automatic association between the car and motorsport, which the current Golf and Focus never had anyway. Maybe Subaru should have spent more money on cheating at emissions/fuel economy tests to get better headline figures like VW, real world owners seem to report much closer fuel economy figures between the STI and Golf R than the official figures suggest. Combine that with plenty of marketing and you might have a recipe for succeeding in the UK.
Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 2nd November 19:33
BTW back in the day people had to import the hottest models of Subaru, like the 22b, isn't that an option these days?
Swole said:
Not really a fan of the later stuff but the boy in me still wants a Classic P1 or a Blob-eye WR1.
I'm saving the money to build my perfect Impreza. A GF8 (1998-2000 wagon) with the 22B arch kit, Speedline ST2's, AP 6 pots, Bilstein suspension kit. Best looking wagon ever produced IMO. warch said:
You are absolutely right, there are plenty competing in the Btrda etc, I should have said at top level, which in my mind is inferior anyway. My point was that the average buyer no longer has that automatic association between the car and motorsport, which the current Golf and Focus never had anyway.
BTW back in the day people had to import the hottest models of Subaru, like the 22b, isn't that an option these days?
Back in the day, you had to import everything spicier than the most basic 215bhp Impreza Turbo!BTW back in the day people had to import the hottest models of Subaru, like the 22b, isn't that an option these days?
Escort Si-130 said:
The noise was one of the worst things I hated about the Scooby, sounded atrocious, worst with the 90's models with the stupid stick your arm in exhaust pipe.
You need a word with yourself. The Subaru warble was one of the most iconic engine notes of 90s rallying. The cheery-bomb, 6" exhausts sounded s
t, but Pete Croney's(?) Scoobysport back box sounded epic.rovermorris999 said:
I have one on order too but in silver, I put a deposit down early in September when I got wind of these thanks to PH. Hopefully I'll have it by the end of the month, apparently they land in the UK around the 17th of this month.
Nice one enjoy cricky I only found out yesterday and I am regular on PH as well andymac said:
Nice one enjoy cricky I only found out yesterday and I am regular on PH as well
All thanks to Paul555sti who posted on my thread in the Subaru forumhttps://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Thanks Paul!
I've a long drag up to Falkirk to get mine.
rovermorris999 said:
andymac said:
Nice one enjoy cricky I only found out yesterday and I am regular on PH as well
All thanks to Paul555sti who posted on my thread in the Subaru forumhttps://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Thanks Paul!
I've a long drag up to Falkirk to get mine.
Ordered mine from dealer in Oxfordshire says Will be available 24th Dec ..Hope it's Christmas wrapped :-)
Valgar said:
Always loved the Impreza, I've owned 3 and would do again, sadly like most of the Subaru range, it's too damn expensive for what it is.
I agree with many here, it's the engine that's let it down, back when the STi was new in 1994 (23 bloody years ago!) it came with 275PS in Type-R guise and soon after standard STi's, and largely that figure has not changed in all that time, there were a few special edition models that went beyond 300 but not much more apart from the Cosworth and many rivals from that time period have almost doubled power output for their top of the line models where as the Impreza barely went up 10%. Add in the 90s fuel economy and it was always going to be a hard sell
Back in the mid 90's the Impreza basically gave contemporary supercar performance that was affordable, practical and controllable which is why it appealed, they basically out gunned the competition by quite some margin and it became the yardstick to beat. The fact the interior was a bit basic was totally forgivable because it offered great value.
But they never really developed their advantage, they're still getting away with using an engine whose original specification stretches back to 1989 which is both shocking and worthy of merit considering it's stayed legal this long. While they were engineering the old EJ to stay legal, everyone else developed superior engines and by the mid 2000s the advantage they had was gone.
The value the Impreza or WRX simply isn't there anymore, if they stuck 450hp on it as standard and the same price tomorrow it'd be brilliant again but as it is, it looks crude compared to the rivals and to the vast majority of buyers, looks are everything.
The power levels of the UK 2.5 STi might not have seemed so bad if they had been robust and not gained such a reputation for problems. A reliable 300 - 350 horsepower with the option to increase via something like a Prodrive Performance Pack would have been pretty cool. As it was no one really wanted to get involved with providing power hikes on a new 2.5 STi running stock internals., I agree with many here, it's the engine that's let it down, back when the STi was new in 1994 (23 bloody years ago!) it came with 275PS in Type-R guise and soon after standard STi's, and largely that figure has not changed in all that time, there were a few special edition models that went beyond 300 but not much more apart from the Cosworth and many rivals from that time period have almost doubled power output for their top of the line models where as the Impreza barely went up 10%. Add in the 90s fuel economy and it was always going to be a hard sell
Back in the mid 90's the Impreza basically gave contemporary supercar performance that was affordable, practical and controllable which is why it appealed, they basically out gunned the competition by quite some margin and it became the yardstick to beat. The fact the interior was a bit basic was totally forgivable because it offered great value.
But they never really developed their advantage, they're still getting away with using an engine whose original specification stretches back to 1989 which is both shocking and worthy of merit considering it's stayed legal this long. While they were engineering the old EJ to stay legal, everyone else developed superior engines and by the mid 2000s the advantage they had was gone.
The value the Impreza or WRX simply isn't there anymore, if they stuck 450hp on it as standard and the same price tomorrow it'd be brilliant again but as it is, it looks crude compared to the rivals and to the vast majority of buyers, looks are everything.
Last year I was torn between a new STi or something else. Heart said yes but head said no. Ended up with, yep, a Golf R. A capable but dull little car that does nothing much for me. But at least there's no nasty surprises either.
Someone I know well recently bought a late STI - true minter with 8k on the clock - and I was actually jealous when I fist saw it ! They hadn't had it for a week when the bottom end started knocking ! Car under Subaru warranty but still not plain sailing to get put right. That kind of curbed my continuing desires to have a new one for good.
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