RE: Ferrari 456: Spotted
Discussion
V8RX7 said:
MDL111 said:
In fairness, 4-seater ferraris are designed as big GT cars for crossing continents incl loads of sound deadening, leather etc - so being heavy is kinda a given then.
The mpg is indeed rather hilarious or painful ... at high speeds or city driving it is amazing how quickly a 90 liter tank can be gone, feels like it has a hole in the tank
Yes but there lies my problem with these cars - unlike in the 70's you can't use their speed - even if you could a '90's diesel will sit at 100+ all day and use a fraction of the fuel and probably be faster as it will get to the destination without a fuel stop (or two) The mpg is indeed rather hilarious or painful ... at high speeds or city driving it is amazing how quickly a 90 liter tank can be gone, feels like it has a hole in the tank
I recall Alan Clark saying his diesel Land Rover was faster than his Bentley over long distances for this reason.
Also Ferrari prices drop like a stone with mileage so we have a continent cruiser that will only sell if you don't use them to cross continents, that are slower in real terms than a diesel and whilst I'm far from an interior snob a modern Audi is nicer then a 456 interior - 5 years on I still remember the cheap and horrid switches.
So yes, it costs a lot of money but to me anyway it is worth it - even if I arrive no earlier
MCBrowncoat said:
There was someone who picked one of these up for £17k off of a YKYWT a few years back, be nice to hear on update on how that went?
That would be me then 
and here is how it went..https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I have a '99 456M/GTA. Blu NART over Cuoio Sella hide (that's the orangey-brown that's quite delectable). It rolled 41K miles this past summer and consumed approx $2,500 in "things" this year; tires, one wheel bearing, suspension accumulators and a few other misc bits and bobs. I've ordered timing belts and tensioner bearings from Superformance which will be done this winter, along with having a new radiator fabricated (we have a great custom rad shop over here, down in Texas, who has done several for other 456 owners for about $2K versus $6K from Ferrari). Have to sort out a few other things but overall the car is fantastic. I've owned a handful of 308s and loved those but stupidly sold them all before prices went silly and so after a 10 or so year hiatus from F-car owneship, decided it was high time to nab a 456 before those take off too.
Prices over in Europe (on the Continent) seem to be quite high already for these cars. I see them from time to time there in the UK for asking prices more closely aligned to prices here in the US, if not slightly higher. There was just a '95 456GT (manual) in Verde Silverstone over Tan for sale at a dealer in California with 33K miles on it for $60K. I was the first caller on it and was trying to sort out a way to buy it as I'd like to have a manual (more for nostalgia's sake than anything--the auto truthfully suits the large, relaxed nature of the car better in the real world). Anyhow, the green car lasted a whole two days on the market before someone walked in and paid full ask for it, cash deal. I knew it wouldn't last long. Over here, you need at least $85K USD to touch a 456 manual with the exception of one that has been listed on eBay for a year now that needs a major and has cosmetic issues, and has had the price reduced from $94K to $62.5K over said year. I tried to buy it when I bought my '99 but the seller was not pleasant to deal with, hence why I reckon it still hasn't moved off their lot. Shame really, as I'd still like to have it, maybe for mid-$50s at this point.
Anyhow, I'm in the thought camp that the beauty of the 456 lies in its inconspicuousness. When I had my 308s and a subsequent '06 Elise, I quickly tired of d
heads always wanting to race me anytime I would be out for a drive. With the 456, the only people who know what it is, know what it is, if you know what I mean, and rather than douchebags in Skylines and G37 Infinitis wanting to race to show off to their girlfriends that they beat a Ferrari, the car elicits respectful comments from people, including teenagers who you'd think wouldn't even give the car a second glance. They know it's a pukka (as you guys are fond of saying) V12 GT that cost a nice house when new and can still run with the best of them. Hell, 191mph isn't a bad top end for a near 20 year old leviathan!
As for upkeep costs, I do my own work so all I factor in is parts prices. I work for Maserati so I see plenty of Ferraris in the course of my day to day job. Parts for these '90s cars are damn high, although thanks to places like Superformance and having good buddies at F dealers here, I can generally buy all my bits at wholesale prices so that helps.
As for value, well, yeah mileage does kill a Ferrari's value but one thing I have learned over many years in dealing with exotics is that there's truly an ass for every seat. There will always be a guy out there who will buy a "high mileage" (i.e. over 40K mile) Ferrari. He will be the one who understands that, like any car, it's just a machine, and machines are meant to be used. Maybe his budget won't stretch for a garage queen or maybe he just wants one that he doesn't have to obsess over every mile that gets put on. That's kind of my line of thinking; I bought the car to use and enjoy. I got it in April of this year and have done about 3K miles since then and just laid it up for winter on Nov 1. Next season I figure it'll see 5-7,500 miles God willing.
By the way, my year-round daily hack is a 2007 Quattroporte that's fast closing in on 120K miles if that's any indicator of my enjoyment of using my cars
Prices over in Europe (on the Continent) seem to be quite high already for these cars. I see them from time to time there in the UK for asking prices more closely aligned to prices here in the US, if not slightly higher. There was just a '95 456GT (manual) in Verde Silverstone over Tan for sale at a dealer in California with 33K miles on it for $60K. I was the first caller on it and was trying to sort out a way to buy it as I'd like to have a manual (more for nostalgia's sake than anything--the auto truthfully suits the large, relaxed nature of the car better in the real world). Anyhow, the green car lasted a whole two days on the market before someone walked in and paid full ask for it, cash deal. I knew it wouldn't last long. Over here, you need at least $85K USD to touch a 456 manual with the exception of one that has been listed on eBay for a year now that needs a major and has cosmetic issues, and has had the price reduced from $94K to $62.5K over said year. I tried to buy it when I bought my '99 but the seller was not pleasant to deal with, hence why I reckon it still hasn't moved off their lot. Shame really, as I'd still like to have it, maybe for mid-$50s at this point.
Anyhow, I'm in the thought camp that the beauty of the 456 lies in its inconspicuousness. When I had my 308s and a subsequent '06 Elise, I quickly tired of d
heads always wanting to race me anytime I would be out for a drive. With the 456, the only people who know what it is, know what it is, if you know what I mean, and rather than douchebags in Skylines and G37 Infinitis wanting to race to show off to their girlfriends that they beat a Ferrari, the car elicits respectful comments from people, including teenagers who you'd think wouldn't even give the car a second glance. They know it's a pukka (as you guys are fond of saying) V12 GT that cost a nice house when new and can still run with the best of them. Hell, 191mph isn't a bad top end for a near 20 year old leviathan! As for upkeep costs, I do my own work so all I factor in is parts prices. I work for Maserati so I see plenty of Ferraris in the course of my day to day job. Parts for these '90s cars are damn high, although thanks to places like Superformance and having good buddies at F dealers here, I can generally buy all my bits at wholesale prices so that helps.
As for value, well, yeah mileage does kill a Ferrari's value but one thing I have learned over many years in dealing with exotics is that there's truly an ass for every seat. There will always be a guy out there who will buy a "high mileage" (i.e. over 40K mile) Ferrari. He will be the one who understands that, like any car, it's just a machine, and machines are meant to be used. Maybe his budget won't stretch for a garage queen or maybe he just wants one that he doesn't have to obsess over every mile that gets put on. That's kind of my line of thinking; I bought the car to use and enjoy. I got it in April of this year and have done about 3K miles since then and just laid it up for winter on Nov 1. Next season I figure it'll see 5-7,500 miles God willing.
By the way, my year-round daily hack is a 2007 Quattroporte that's fast closing in on 120K miles if that's any indicator of my enjoyment of using my cars
kambites said:
It just goes to show how personal the concept of "beauty" is, I suppose. For me, the 456 is the last genuinely good looking Ferrari....
+1 
How anyone can claim that the 456 is ugly is frankly baffling!
The 456 is a beautiful, elegant design, with some hints of the 365/GTB Daytona about it, that looks good from just about every angle.
As with most large modern GT Ferrari's, they don't seem to suit red paintwork (Tour De France blue with cream/tan leather interior look best to Me), and as I understand it, the auto-boxes can become problematic as they get older, and can be mega-expensive to repair.
V8RX7 said:
big_rob_sydney said:
I think looking at this on an equivalent platform to a diesel is missing the point.
Because if it were really down to that, we'd all be driving POS snotboxes.
For me, this is about having a choice, and knowing that you COULD have an iconic brand, which will do continent crushing miles, but more to the point, give you memories that will last a lifetime. Drive a 2.0 tdi across anywhere, and its a trip probably best forgotten. Smash the autostradas of europe in a powerful Ferrari, and the family will remember that trip for life.
To borrow a phrase from Johnnie Walker, do you want the car you pay for, or the car you want to drive?
I think you're missing the point - this car was designed for a niche that ended possibly 20 years before it was built - hence before the prices went silly it took years to sell them for half what they cost now.Because if it were really down to that, we'd all be driving POS snotboxes.
For me, this is about having a choice, and knowing that you COULD have an iconic brand, which will do continent crushing miles, but more to the point, give you memories that will last a lifetime. Drive a 2.0 tdi across anywhere, and its a trip probably best forgotten. Smash the autostradas of europe in a powerful Ferrari, and the family will remember that trip for life.
To borrow a phrase from Johnnie Walker, do you want the car you pay for, or the car you want to drive?
It doesn't have a fantastic interior, it doesn't have a great noise (as standard) you can't sit at 150mph these days....
By all means, go buy the 2.0 tdi, and enjoy the crippling depreciation, all while religiously sticking to the NSL.
The autobox is a modified GM 4T80E and the secret is out that it can, in fact, be mostly freshened with readily available parts. One 456 owner here in the US has done just that. He ordered good old AC Delco replacement parts (solenoids, clutches, etc..) and was successful in his quest to sort out a slip in the trans. Some stuff inside is bespoke to that 'box (valve body, etc..) but that's a rare failure. The big kick is to just keep the fluid, main filter and two scavenger filters renewed at regular intervals and don't abuse the 'box and it should be as durable as one could ask.
The main thing to watch out for is oil consumption/smoking, necessitating a valve job and guide replacement. Fortunately, timing belts and tensioner bearings can be done with the engine in situ, although it's important to also check and adjust tappet clearances at each belt service and degreeing the cams is also a good idea.
A couple of years ago, there was a 456GT manual with 183K miles on it on eBay for sale. I think it did $26K. Seller said it ran and drove fine and I do think he had at least some service history on it. In hindsight, I should have grabbed it, as that was stupid cheap, but even more regrettable was not buying a 550 Maranello (stick) with 76K on it that sold for a paltry $49.5K in 2015. I was close to pulling the trigger on that one but there was a big discussion on Ferrarichat about it and it came up that the car had seen many hard track miles although no word on what kind of maintenance it had seen so it seemed like it could have been a pricey dice throw.
I had debated selling my QP to a friend who really wanted to buy it earlier this year and just using the 456 daily but the lack of available snow tires and the fact that things like poor side window seals (fortunately they are good on my car although I don't know if I'd trust them in a heavy downpour) and the awful fuel consumption, not to mention the effects of daily use wear and tear on the cosmetics (shrinking dash leather comes to mind) just didn't bode well for me to subject a car I spent a decent amount of coin on to daily duty. I should also mention, although I'm a pretty svelte build (6'-1", 200lbs) the seats in the 456 do tend to hurt my lower back and my thighs after being in the car longer than 4-5 hours, whereas the QP's seats are sublime.
In short, I'll likely hang onto the 456 for a good while. If I can swap it for a manual pre-M car, I would be tempted as I do prefer the aesthetics of the earlier cars better (scoops in the bonnet, big bank of dials on the center stack) although the M has much better technological improvements so it's generally down to whether or not an owner wants to deal with fiddling more constantly (pre-M) or more plain jane aesthetics but better mechanicals and a bit more power (M).
big_rob_sydney said:
Yep. You're right. The car is an appreciating asset, according to your own post. No reason to buy it. Nope. None at all.
By all means, go buy the 2.0 tdi, and enjoy the crippling depreciation, all while religiously sticking to the NSL.
WAS an appreciating asset, along with the majority of desirable cars for the last few years.By all means, go buy the 2.0 tdi, and enjoy the crippling depreciation, all while religiously sticking to the NSL.
I've never owned a 2.0 TDi nor intend to - but I won't be buying a lazy cruiser that's stupidly expensive to run either, I'll stick with my RX7
456mgt said:
Had mine over 10 years and loved it. It was a fabulous car, loved every mile I did in it. Effortlessly quick, handled well and classy to boot. Only sold it because my life had moved on and I stopped using it; it was the sole and constant reminder of the past so it had to go.
Hate to say it, but isn't your user name a reminder? 
Anyway I've always loved the look of these in that colour, but I would want a light interior - ideally cream and a manual gearbox! IMO the last great looking Ferrari, but we all like different things. I really can't see them dropping in value any more though.
I keep looking at the updates from "paulg390" on his ownership experience, and they are never going to drop to what he paid!
Stunning cars.
MJK 24 said:
67Dino said:
Cons:
- Huge servicing costs
- The servicing costs are huge
- Did I mention the cost of servicing? It’s a lot. Really.
I applaud your choice in cars! Brilliant!- Huge servicing costs
- The servicing costs are huge
- Did I mention the cost of servicing? It’s a lot. Really.
Edited by 67Dino on Saturday 4th November 08:59
Could you elaborate on the running costs please? Are the parts staggeringly expensive or are they just hugely time consuming to work on? Or is it a combination of both?
To answer MJK 24’s question the issue with costs seems to be ‘all of the above’. The 456 was made with expensive parts, wasn’t designed to be cheap to service, had rather average build quality (so 20 years on corrosion and wear are starting to show), and parts are not always available and some have to be fabricated by hand. All in all, it’s a bit like maintaining a fighter jet made by Fiat....
If you’re looking to get one, I’d budget around £5-10k pa instead of the £2-3k pa for a V8 Ferrari of the same era.
I test drive a couple before I bought my old GranSport. Loved the looks, but I though they drove like fast vans. Clunky gearshifts, awful seats (for me) - IIRC the seat back and base adjust like a Cadillac CTS, which gives the choice between leg ache and back ache - nasty plastic switches, windows drop, poor wind noise... the Porsche 928 is a much better car of that era IMHO, and the GranSport is a better long distance machine too.
I love the 456. Never had the funds to buy one, but I practically begged a friend of mine who was in the market for a GT like this to take the plunge. The buffoon bought a 911 Turbo instead.
That was a few years ago and they were already on the up. Remember the PHer who bought one for £17k a while back?
That was a few years ago and they were already on the up. Remember the PHer who bought one for £17k a while back?
paulg390 said:
That would be me then and here is how it went..
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Aah good stuff! I take it you still have it then, unclear from the thread? Sounds you've been pretty lucky with it? and here is how it went..https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
4rephill said:
+1
How anyone can claim that the 456 is ugly is frankly baffling!
The 456 is a beautiful, elegant design, with some hints of the 365/GTB Daytona about it, that looks good from just about every angle.
As with most large modern GT Ferrari's, they don't seem to suit red paintwork (Tour De France blue with cream/tan leather interior look best to Me), and as I understand it, the auto-boxes can become problematic as they get older, and can be mega-expensive to repair.
+1How anyone can claim that the 456 is ugly is frankly baffling!
The 456 is a beautiful, elegant design, with some hints of the 365/GTB Daytona about it, that looks good from just about every angle.
As with most large modern GT Ferrari's, they don't seem to suit red paintwork (Tour De France blue with cream/tan leather interior look best to Me), and as I understand it, the auto-boxes can become problematic as they get older, and can be mega-expensive to repair.
I think it's stunning and timeless in a way. Blue and dark grey are colours for me.
The modern versions leave me cold.
V8RX7 said:
WAS an appreciating asset, along with the majority of desirable cars for the last few years.
I've never owned a 2.0 TDi nor intend to - but I won't be buying a lazy cruiser that's stupidly expensive to run either, I'll stick with my RX7
Hmm, Ferrari 456 vs Mazda RX7.I've never owned a 2.0 TDi nor intend to - but I won't be buying a lazy cruiser that's stupidly expensive to run either, I'll stick with my RX7
Yeah, I can see how you'd be in the majority there...
Would dearly love one but have always been put off, as others have said, by the stories of running costs.
I sold a 996t a couple of years ago and at the time a dealer in Dorset had a TdF manual car at a couple of grand more. I chickened out but that remains the deal I wish I'd have done.
I may have been bankrupt by now mind.
I sold a 996t a couple of years ago and at the time a dealer in Dorset had a TdF manual car at a couple of grand more. I chickened out but that remains the deal I wish I'd have done.
I may have been bankrupt by now mind.
big_rob_sydney said:
V8RX7 said:
WAS an appreciating asset, along with the majority of desirable cars for the last few years.
I've never owned a 2.0 TDi nor intend to - but I won't be buying a lazy cruiser that's stupidly expensive to run either, I'll stick with my RX7
Hmm, Ferrari 456 vs Mazda RX7.I've never owned a 2.0 TDi nor intend to - but I won't be buying a lazy cruiser that's stupidly expensive to run either, I'll stick with my RX7
Yeah, I can see how you'd be in the majority there...
Or the complete lack of it
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