RE: Porsche 911 GT2 RS: Driven
Discussion
av185 said:
Durzel said:
Porsche (and others) are choosing to make these cars get treated like investment products.
Not really.The market decides, not Porsche.
It is partly the longstanding low interest rate environment which has driven the limited run halo car demand starting with the gen 1 GT3 as being another asset class to park money. Whilst rates increase slightly this is having an affect hence why top end prices have eased latterly.
What I find laughable are those who say they can't afford to pay or won't pay in principle market value or premium money for say a lightly used newish GT4 at 10k overs and yet would happily buy say a rapidly depreciating Mclaren instead.
McLaren is a superb product and they are learning at a pace which I trust is giving Porsche something to think about for once. Cars depreciate, at least in the short term, deal with it. Let's get out of this mentality that you mainly buy cars for investment. The only issue with McLaren in my view is that they should produce a NA car which will rev to 11,000 rpm, and make that available to us so that we can blow any GT3 into the weeds and let everyone hear us doing it. because the GT3, great though it is, is actually quite an antiquated design. If Porsche had to compete on a level, playing field and actually design something new, they might not find it terribly easy.
Rawwr said:
But that's patently not true? I know of someone who's getting a GT2RS. He's a long-standing Porsche customer and it's right that he should get first dibs on one. I know of people who have bought GT3s and RSs from dealers without too much of a problem. None of those people are in the categories you have in your imagination. In fact, they're all just ugly nerds who struggle to use the Internet.
It absolutely is true. I don't happen to know any of these loyal ugly nerd customers who are finally rewarded by being sold a GT product for less than its market value unless we are talking about Jay Leno. All I am saying is that credible magazines should not test them as if they actually are for sale at the supposed list price, and Porsche should sell them for what they are worth. I do not personally feel comfortable buying secondhand high performance cars (way over list price or otherwise) because performance cars tend to get ragged, particularly if the registered keeper knows that he is about to pass it on for a profit. There is no comparison with the Nike carry on.
cardigankid said:
It absolutely is true. I don't happen to know any of these loyal ugly nerd customers who are finally rewarded by being sold a GT product for less than its market value
There's a few on this thread.cardigankid said:
There is no comparison with the Nike carry on.
It's exactly the same thing: limited product, heavily speculated, much disappointment.Rawwr said:
I know of someone who's getting a GT2RS. He's a long-standing Porsche customer and it's right that he should get first dibs on one.
Sure, let him be at the front of the queue... But make it a queue that everybody can join, if they're happy to pay the price.Rawwr said:
I collect trainers. Last month, the limited Jordan 1 Breds were released and I didn't get a pair. I really wanted them but they were limited supply and I missed out. If I wanted them badly enough, I could've gone on eBay and paid a £200 premium for a pair.
I'm not sure that's a particularly good analogy. These shoes are, I presume, the same actual physical product as is widely available off the shelf... just a different colour.It'd be like saying you can order a GT2RS in any other colour, no problem, but there's only a dozen in <whatever> colour. <cue widespread whining about how it's soooo unfair>
The analogy falls down because there is an actual functional difference between a GT2RS and other, non-limited-availability, 911s.
Restricted availability and potential investment apart, whether you or I think that actual functional difference justifies the additional price would be a separate question. And my cynical side says that caveat is not just the key, but quite a clever marketing move. I have a sneaky suspicion that if availability was unlimited, they may actually sell fewer if people were making the purchase decision solely on the product's merits.
TooMany2cvs said:
The analogy falls down because there is an actual functional difference between a GT2RS and other, non-limited-availability, 911s.
Nike Air Mag and Reebok Alien Stomper High. Totally unique. Not produced in other colours for the riff-raff, limited availability and much sought after. The analogy stands up.Rawwr said:
TooMany2cvs said:
The analogy falls down because there is an actual functional difference between a GT2RS and other, non-limited-availability, 911s.
Nike Air Mag and Reebok Alien Stomper High. Totally unique. Not produced in other colours for the riff-raff, limited availability and much sought after. The analogy stands up.(To help you pitch your answer to my frame of reference, my footwear options consist of one pair each of wellies, walking boots, steel toe workboots, chainsaw boots, black suit shoes... and a single pair of brown shoes for absolutely every other occasion. There may be temporary overlap between brown shoes as one pair nears end of life and I find a suitable replacement pair. I do not possess a single pair of trainers at all, even for their actual sporting intent, let alone for investment purposes. Even a Honda Jazz driver would understand a GT2RS is even faster and less comfy than a normal 911, even if they didn't get why that was desirable.)
Rawwr said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Sure, let him be at the front of the queue... But make it a queue that everybody can join, if they're happy to pay the price.
Anyone can join the queue.Nah.
TooMany2cvs said:
I have no idea what they are. Help me out by explaining how they're "totally unique" in an actually functionally different way, rather than mere cosmetics.
The Air Mags lace themselves. It's a unique silhouette. They're the ones Marty McFly wore in Back To The Future 2 
Here's a pair for sale, if you're interested: https://www.flightclub.com/nike-air-mag-jetstream-...
TooMany2cvs said:
Really? So anybody sufficient wedge can look up the location of their nearest Porsche dealer, walk in the door, say "Hello, you've never met me before, but what will you give me PX value for my Jazz against a GT2RS?", and be sat down to discuss spec and delivery date?
Nah.
That's the best, most realistic hypothetical you could come up with? Nah.
Rawwr said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Rawwr said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Sure, let him be at the front of the queue... But make it a queue that everybody can join, if they're happy to pay the price.
Anyone can join the queue.Nah.
Rawwr said:
The Air Mags lace themselves. It's a unique silhouette. They're the ones Marty McFly wore in Back To The Future 2
Here's a pair for sale, if you're interested: https://www.flightclub.com/nike-air-mag-jetstream-...
Woo. <waves hands in air in excitement>Here's a pair for sale, if you're interested: https://www.flightclub.com/nike-air-mag-jetstream-...
OK, so there's one very specific exception to the "same thing, different colour".
Rawwr said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Well, if "Anyone can join the queue"...?
Go for it. Though I suspect they won't take you seriously. TooMany2cvs said:
So each and every dealer COULD sell GT2RSs to all these people complaining about lack of allocations, but they CHOOSE not to, because they don't like the cut of their jib?
They have a limited amount available. They give first dibs to people who are established customers who have expressed an interest. If there are any left of their allocation after those people have made their decision, why wouldn't you be able to purchase one? Your problem is that too many people are saying 'yes' but there's nothing to stop you putting in a LoI. There are no rules to say that you can't do that. However, in your example of turning up and wanting to part exchange a Jazz for a GT2RS, I can absolutely see why the dealer would think you're wasting their time. If you can't see that, we have little left to discuss.Rawwr said:
TooMany2cvs said:
So each and every dealer COULD sell GT2RSs to all these people complaining about lack of allocations, but they CHOOSE not to, because they don't like the cut of their jib?
They have a limited amount available.Rawwr said:
They give first dibs to people who are established customers who have expressed an interest. If there are any left of their allocation after those people have made their decision, why wouldn't you be able to purchase one?
Because there are many more "established customers who have expressed an interest" than there are allocations. So you or I, mere mortals without a big long list of contributing generously to their bottom line, cannot get anywhere near the list. No matter how sweetly we smile at the supercilious shinysuit.TooMany2cvs said:
Because there are many more "established customers who have expressed an interest" than there are allocations. So you or I, mere mortals without a big long list of contributing generously to their bottom line, cannot get anywhere near the list. No matter how sweetly we smile at the supercilious shinysuit.
I don't think I ever said supply wasn't limited, so not sure why you're celebrating that. Again, you can get on the list, you'll just be at the bottom of it behind people who deserve first refusal. People did it with the GT4. The allocations were sold out very quickly but they had many cancelled orders and so some people who had never bought a Porsche before were able to buy one. I'm not sure why you think the system is unfair.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff