RE: BMW M3 CS specs announced
Discussion
cerb4.5lee said:
N/A died years ago in this sector...torque rules and the S65 never made a great noise as standard anyway...long live Turbo's for me.
Yes, as standard the S65 makes great *induction* noise, not just exhaust noise which is all we get nowadays with Turbo cars...You sir must be the most consistent S65 troll known to man!
R33FAL said:
cerb4.5lee said:
N/A died years ago in this sector...torque rules and the S65 never made a great noise as standard anyway...long live Turbo's for me.
Yes, as standard the S65 makes great *induction* noise, not just exhaust noise which is all we get nowadays with Turbo cars...You sir must be the most consistent S65 troll known to man!
As said already - the Alfa is now the mark to hit, amazing that BMW have tried hard and not there. Of course, this car will sell, because whilst its nearly as good (maybe) as the Alfa, people will feel safer spending more on a BMW because of brand perception etc....and I feel ashamed to admit this as an Alfa person, I cant totally disagree. However things are changing, not the best place to post information like this and I do take some of these surveys with a pinch of salt - but I've never seen Alfa do so well in the attached reliability survey - i.e. they are now the most reliable European car !
https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey/
I just think the big thing Alfa need to sort are their patchy dealers service, and I think their biggest problem are the sales staff attitudes. There are some amazing dealers but too many who are better geared in selling higher volume low price, rather than low volume, higher price.
What would BMW do if Alfa started on a Giulia performance special !
https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey/
I just think the big thing Alfa need to sort are their patchy dealers service, and I think their biggest problem are the sales staff attitudes. There are some amazing dealers but too many who are better geared in selling higher volume low price, rather than low volume, higher price.
What would BMW do if Alfa started on a Giulia performance special !
bilo999 said:
As said already - the Alfa is now the mark to hit, amazing that BMW have tried hard and not there. Of course, this car will sell, because whilst its nearly as good (maybe) as the Alfa, people will feel safer spending more on a BMW because of brand perception etc....and I feel ashamed to admit this as an Alfa person, I cant totally disagree. However things are changing, not the best place to post information like this and I do take some of these surveys with a pinch of salt - but I've never seen Alfa do so well in the attached reliability survey - i.e. they are now the most reliable European car !
https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey/
I just think the big thing Alfa need to sort are their patchy dealers service, and I think their biggest problem are the sales staff attitudes. There are some amazing dealers but too many who are better geared in selling higher volume low price, rather than low volume, higher price.
What would BMW do if Alfa started on a Giulia performance special !
Agree with everything you said, especially the dealer network.https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey/
I just think the big thing Alfa need to sort are their patchy dealers service, and I think their biggest problem are the sales staff attitudes. There are some amazing dealers but too many who are better geared in selling higher volume low price, rather than low volume, higher price.
What would BMW do if Alfa started on a Giulia performance special !
But BMW don't need to better the competitors, unfortunately. People will buy them because they are BMWs (Ditto Audi/Merc). Bring a market leading product to the fray and their sales will go up marginally, but for many it isn't worth it. Look at the new RS5/RS4 - arguably a lacklustre effort.
Alfa DID need to smash the marketplace open, and have. If they hadn't, the QV wouldn't have made the waves it has.
bilo999 said:
As said already - the Alfa is now the mark to hit, amazing that BMW have tried hard and not there. Of course, this car will sell, because whilst its nearly as good (maybe) as the Alfa, people will feel safer spending more on a BMW because of brand perception etc....and I feel ashamed to admit this as an Alfa person, I cant totally disagree. However things are changing, not the best place to post information like this and I do take some of these surveys with a pinch of salt - but I've never seen Alfa do so well in the attached reliability survey - i.e. they are now the most reliable European car !
https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey/
I just think the big thing Alfa need to sort are their patchy dealers service, and I think their biggest problem are the sales staff attitudes. There are some amazing dealers but too many who are better geared in selling higher volume low price, rather than low volume, higher price.
What would BMW do if Alfa started on a Giulia performance special !
They already do! The Qv is ‘very special’, but I know what you mean ; )https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey/
I just think the big thing Alfa need to sort are their patchy dealers service, and I think their biggest problem are the sales staff attitudes. There are some amazing dealers but too many who are better geared in selling higher volume low price, rather than low volume, higher price.
What would BMW do if Alfa started on a Giulia performance special !
Ares said:
R33FAL said:
cerb4.5lee said:
N/A died years ago in this sector...torque rules and the S65 never made a great noise as standard anyway...long live Turbo's for me.
Yes, as standard the S65 makes great *induction* noise, not just exhaust noise which is all we get nowadays with Turbo cars...You sir must be the most consistent S65 troll known to man!
Ares said:
culpz said:
Ares said:
culpz said:
Ares said:
culpz said:
It looks epic and clearly goes epic too. 3.9 seconds to 60 just sounds bonkers to me. I'm just not convinced it's as epic for the premium it commands over the CP version. In fact, just a standard M3/M4 would do me, at an even lower cost.
3.9 is the benchmark for all cars in this sector. The M3 is the last to break the 4 second mark. Bonkers indeed, especially when you consider this, the Alfa and the Merc don't have the RS5's AWD for off the line traction!I never really got the hate for the F80 M3/M4 in the first place. It's probably my first pick when my lottery numbers come up.
What swayed it for you?
So, maybe i like the idea of an F80 M3/M4 more than i'd actually like driving/owning one. They're still great as a do-it-all kind of car but maybe the Alfa is the car to have if you want that little bit more.
Raramuri said:
And if you map the 335d it will be faster than this M3 CS too. Bargain.
Diesel though?I know Steve Sutcliffe seemed to prefer the Alpina D4 to the BMW M4, in an Autocar review. Diesels really don't do much for me at all though. There's just no comparison to a petrol IMO, turbo or not.
Edited by culpz on Thursday 9th November 11:39
I just watched the Carwow review of the M3 CS and yes it is a lovely car, but I am really struggling to see how this is anything other than a copy of the Alfa Giulia Qv for £25k more! It does not make any sense at all - 911, F Type R, AMG GT, V8 Vantage S - all 2017 virtually brand new and way more exclusive and are a class above the M3 etc. The price is just wrong.
culpz said:
I must admit that i'm getting very bored of German cars now. I'm just not sure that see the fuss about them. Fair enough, i've not driven many proper performance variants, bar a 997 Carrera S, but most that i've experienced feel too clinical and numb. Not boring, as such, but maybe a bit too competent/composed for their own good.
So, maybe i like the idea of an F80 M3/M4 more than i'd actually like driving/owning one. They're still great as a do-it-all kind of car but maybe the Alfa is the car to have if you want that little bit more.
I wouldn't go that far. On the whole, German cars still lead the way, they just have a very specific (and brand specific) drive, but it is still very good. The M3 is certainly not numb, neither is the C63s. Both are cracking cars. So, maybe i like the idea of an F80 M3/M4 more than i'd actually like driving/owning one. They're still great as a do-it-all kind of car but maybe the Alfa is the car to have if you want that little bit more.
I just think the Alfa has moved the game on, and this £85k BMW that still doesn't really catch it up, perhaps shows quite how far they have moved the game on. Take an M3 CP out though, and you certain won't be disappointed.
culpz said:
Raramuri said:
And if you map the 335d it will be faster than this M3 CS too. Bargain.
Diesel though?I know Steve Sutcliffe seemed to prefer the Alpina D4 to the BMW M4, in an Autocar review. Diesels really don't do much for me at all though. There's just no comparison to a petrol IMO, turbo or not.
Edited by culpz on Thursday 9th November 11:39
MegaCat said:
I just watched the Carwow review of the M3 CS and yes it is a lovely car, but I am really struggling to see how this is anything other than a copy of the Alfa Giulia Qv for £25k more! It does not make any sense at all - 911, F Type R, AMG GT, V8 Vantage S - all 2017 virtually brand new and way more exclusive and are a class above the M3 etc. The price is just wrong.
True, but they are also all only 2 seater (911 aside, but £80k won't get you much of a 911!)The M3 (and now all it's competitors) were always about making a car that could stand toe-to-toe with a 911, but in the body of a 4-seat practical car - especially from the 6-pot era. The original E30 was pure homologated race car.
ChawenHalo said:
I'm a BMW fan but frankly what is the point of this? I'd rather they made a practice and fun to drive simple RWD M3 Touring with a 6 speed manual. Who needs these extremes on a large heavy road car?
What extremes? And there isn't really anything is on a modern M3 that isn't demanded by customers. I don't even now of anyone that has a standard M3, everyone has some options added to it.What could a RWD M3 Touring lose that would improve it? And weight it's really an option, most of the weight is there for legislative reasons.
Ares said:
I wouldn't go that far. On the whole, German cars still lead the way, they just have a very specific (and brand specific) drive, but it is still very good. The M3 is certainly not numb, neither is the C63s. Both are cracking cars.
I just think the Alfa has moved the game on, and this £85k BMW that still doesn't really catch it up, perhaps shows quite how far they have moved the game on. Take an M3 CP out though, and you certain won't be disappointed.
Well, i don't want to say too much, having not driven an M BMW or a AMG Merc. I'm just talking from experiences of generic German cars i've had and/or driven. I just think the Alfa has moved the game on, and this £85k BMW that still doesn't really catch it up, perhaps shows quite how far they have moved the game on. Take an M3 CP out though, and you certain won't be disappointed.
Maybe with some real power and drama behind them, it could offset against what i'm saying. The 997 Carrera S, that i did a track day round Anglesey in, probably did just that. However, that's a low-riding sports car and not a saloon/coupe with more power.
Ares said:
culpz said:
Raramuri said:
And if you map the 335d it will be faster than this M3 CS too. Bargain.
Diesel though?I know Steve Sutcliffe seemed to prefer the Alpina D4 to the BMW M4, in an Autocar review. Diesels really don't do much for me at all though. There's just no comparison to a petrol IMO, turbo or not.
Edited by culpz on Thursday 9th November 11:39
I'm not sure i agree with that. Turbo petrol engines still feel much more eager and don't have a silly narrow power band. Most sound infinitely better too, even when pootling around at low speeds/on idle.
culpz said:
Ares said:
I wouldn't go that far. On the whole, German cars still lead the way, they just have a very specific (and brand specific) drive, but it is still very good. The M3 is certainly not numb, neither is the C63s. Both are cracking cars.
I just think the Alfa has moved the game on, and this £85k BMW that still doesn't really catch it up, perhaps shows quite how far they have moved the game on. Take an M3 CP out though, and you certain won't be disappointed.
Well, i don't want to say too much, having not driven an M BMW or a AMG Merc. I'm just talking from experiences of generic German cars i've had and/or driven. I just think the Alfa has moved the game on, and this £85k BMW that still doesn't really catch it up, perhaps shows quite how far they have moved the game on. Take an M3 CP out though, and you certain won't be disappointed.
Maybe with some real power and drama behind them, it could offset against what i'm saying. The 997 Carrera S, that i did a track day round Anglesey in, probably did just that. However, that's a low-riding sports car and not a saloon/coupe with more power.
But even standard models, BMW/Merc/Audi are still a level above their contemporaries. But then they cost more, so should. My old man is on his 3rd 320d. He was very anti-BMW for a long time. Vauxhalls/VWs/Ford/etc were all 'equally as good'. Then he drove a BMW and has never looked back.
Ares said:
culpz said:
Ares said:
I wouldn't go that far. On the whole, German cars still lead the way, they just have a very specific (and brand specific) drive, but it is still very good. The M3 is certainly not numb, neither is the C63s. Both are cracking cars.
I just think the Alfa has moved the game on, and this £85k BMW that still doesn't really catch it up, perhaps shows quite how far they have moved the game on. Take an M3 CP out though, and you certain won't be disappointed.
Well, i don't want to say too much, having not driven an M BMW or a AMG Merc. I'm just talking from experiences of generic German cars i've had and/or driven. I just think the Alfa has moved the game on, and this £85k BMW that still doesn't really catch it up, perhaps shows quite how far they have moved the game on. Take an M3 CP out though, and you certain won't be disappointed.
Maybe with some real power and drama behind them, it could offset against what i'm saying. The 997 Carrera S, that i did a track day round Anglesey in, probably did just that. However, that's a low-riding sports car and not a saloon/coupe with more power.
But even standard models, BMW/Merc/Audi are still a level above their contemporaries. But then they cost more, so should. My old man is on his 3rd 320d. He was very anti-BMW for a long time. Vauxhalls/VWs/Ford/etc were all 'equally as good'. Then he drove a BMW and has never looked back.
I'm not anti-BMW but i'm not exactly their biggest fan either. I'm more of an Audi guy but there are probably more products made by BMW that i'd actually like to own, to be completely honest.
culpz said:
I possibly will when i'm in the market for one. It'd be just a complete waste of time right now, unfortunately!
I'm not anti-BMW but i'm not exactly their biggest fan either. I'm more of an Audi guy but there are probably more products made by BMW that i'd actually like to own, to be completely honest.
...driving great cars is never a waste of time I'm not anti-BMW but i'm not exactly their biggest fan either. I'm more of an Audi guy but there are probably more products made by BMW that i'd actually like to own, to be completely honest.
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