Bmw 4 series spun out of control m25
Discussion
Cars with very wide section tyres are terrible in the rain, they basically act as great big hydrofoils on wet roads, regardless of what brand of car they're bolted to. In comparison, a little Corsa or something with skinny tyres is a bit like a knife through butter, the narrow tyres cut down through the water to the road surface below.
Aquaplaning is bad news and EVERY car will have a specific speed and tyre combination at which point it WILL aquaplane when driving through a set amount of water. The fact you were in a 2 year old BMW doesn't exempt you from the laws of physics unfortunately, regardless of what the "ultimate driving machine" advertising will try to tell you. Fat tyres are great in the dry as there's more rubber in contact with the road surface, the flip side is in the wet there is more rubber to aquaplane.
My car has 235 section tyres all round and I've felt it getting twitchy in heavy rain in the motorway at speeds of around 65mph, in those cases I will often slow right down and slot in with the lorries. Going 90 is basically putting yourself forward for a Darwin Award. Also as mentioned, 1.6mm of tread is dangerously low, despite being legal. I change all of my tyres at 3mm minimum, for premium rubber and monitor and adjust the pressures weekly. I recommend you do the same, and slow down!
Aquaplaning is bad news and EVERY car will have a specific speed and tyre combination at which point it WILL aquaplane when driving through a set amount of water. The fact you were in a 2 year old BMW doesn't exempt you from the laws of physics unfortunately, regardless of what the "ultimate driving machine" advertising will try to tell you. Fat tyres are great in the dry as there's more rubber in contact with the road surface, the flip side is in the wet there is more rubber to aquaplane.
My car has 235 section tyres all round and I've felt it getting twitchy in heavy rain in the motorway at speeds of around 65mph, in those cases I will often slow right down and slot in with the lorries. Going 90 is basically putting yourself forward for a Darwin Award. Also as mentioned, 1.6mm of tread is dangerously low, despite being legal. I change all of my tyres at 3mm minimum, for premium rubber and monitor and adjust the pressures weekly. I recommend you do the same, and slow down!
Yipper said:
BMWs are not safe in the wet.
Atrocious handling and prone to aquaplaning and skidding.
Just watch the Clarkson video, where he spins in a straight line on a rainy day in a 1 Series.
Amazed people still buy them, given it rains every other day in Britain.
Is that to do with the 50:50 weight distribution and or the massive tyres they get fitted with? Atrocious handling and prone to aquaplaning and skidding.
Just watch the Clarkson video, where he spins in a straight line on a rainy day in a 1 Series.
Amazed people still buy them, given it rains every other day in Britain.
Mike335i said:
No not utter b
ks, the hardest hitting lessons in life are the ones that directly affect us. Can't you remember being young, invincible and feeling "that won't ever happen to me?"
Yep, many times. Including shortly before going backwards off a roundabout.ks, the hardest hitting lessons in life are the ones that directly affect us. Can't you remember being young, invincible and feeling "that won't ever happen to me?"We all think we're ten feet tall and bulletproof. As you get older, you realise you're only 7'6" and mildly flame retardant.
Yipper said:
BMWs are not safe in the wet.
Atrocious handling and prone to aquaplaning and skidding.
Just watch the Clarkson video, where he spins in a straight line on a rainy day in a 1 Series.
Amazed people still buy them, given it rains every other day in Britain.
With 10% more annual precipitation than Germany, you think a car is not safe for use in England?Atrocious handling and prone to aquaplaning and skidding.
Just watch the Clarkson video, where he spins in a straight line on a rainy day in a 1 Series.
Amazed people still buy them, given it rains every other day in Britain.
ChocolateFrog said:
Any tyre will have a certain amount of water that it can remove before it starts to aquaplane.
Larger contact patch equals reduced force combined with tyres that are either worn, not designed to remove mich water or both and you're going to aquaplane sooner rather than later.
Larger contact patch equals reduced PRESSURE, I.e. force per unit area. The downforce is the same (car's mass and acceleration due to gravity have not changed)Larger contact patch equals reduced force combined with tyres that are either worn, not designed to remove mich water or both and you're going to aquaplane sooner rather than later.
Yipper said:
BMWs are not safe in the wet.
Atrocious handling and prone to aquaplaning and skidding.
Just watch the Clarkson video, where he spins in a straight line on a rainy day in a 1 Series.
Amazed people still buy them, given it rains every other day in Britain.
Not sure if serious?Atrocious handling and prone to aquaplaning and skidding.
Just watch the Clarkson video, where he spins in a straight line on a rainy day in a 1 Series.
Amazed people still buy them, given it rains every other day in Britain.
I've covered 10's of thousands of miles in wet conditions in multiple RWD BMW's with power outputs from 140bhp to in excess of 400bhp, without incident.
They are perfectly safe.
TooMany2cvs said:
Alucidnation said:
PK0001 said:
Just look at the latest Audi advert which shoes a Q5 in the rain and tells you that the car is making decisions for you for gods sake. Appalling advert.
I have had several BMW's and in the rain you have to adapt your driving as they are terrible in the wet. Run Flats, rear wheel drive with no weight over the rear axle, and dim witted electric steering are not a great combination.
So if i understand correctly, you say the Audi is crap because it uses AI to keep the car stable in the rain, but the BMW is also crap because it handles badly in the rain.I have had several BMW's and in the rain you have to adapt your driving as they are terrible in the wet. Run Flats, rear wheel drive with no weight over the rear axle, and dim witted electric steering are not a great combination.
He's saying that the combo of a car that insulates you from the sensations of travelling at speed, RWD, very wide tyres and poor steering make for a poor combo in the wet. And he's right. As the OP found out.
I still think its b
ks.I guess the Audi would be a lot safer in that situation.
You can say all you like, but most of the driving population don't really drive around thinking they are now invincible because their car has safety features.
Edited by Alucidnation on Saturday 11th November 12:27
To clarify, the OP was doing ~90mph on a road so wet he felt the need to slow down when overtaking people to reduce the amount of spray. He then hit standing water and aquaplaned. Spun ~10 times down the M25 and hit nothing?
OP = Go and buy a lottery ticket... NOW and slow down in the rain.
FWIW, I have been driving 22 years and only aquaplaned twice. Both on the same journey, in truly foul conditions after a night of intense rain, neither stream (the water was running off the fields) looked much at all until I hit them. After the first one I slowed down. But, the second one which really didn't look different to the first one, I am not would have been safe at 30mph. I honestly thought I was going to crash into the poor bloke buried in the hedge that had obviously hit the same stream.
OP = Go and buy a lottery ticket... NOW and slow down in the rain.
FWIW, I have been driving 22 years and only aquaplaned twice. Both on the same journey, in truly foul conditions after a night of intense rain, neither stream (the water was running off the fields) looked much at all until I hit them. After the first one I slowed down. But, the second one which really didn't look different to the first one, I am not would have been safe at 30mph. I honestly thought I was going to crash into the poor bloke buried in the hedge that had obviously hit the same stream.
Chestrockwell said:
I checked the tyres, there rears are on at least 3 mil, maybe more, the front left one is on also 3 And the other is on at least 6 as I replaced it a few months ago.
Tyres are manufacturer bridge stone potenza runflats, 225 front 255 rear.
And therefore their capability to clear water is vastly reduced.Tyres are manufacturer bridge stone potenza runflats, 225 front 255 rear.
With one of the tyres being almost new and very obviously behaving differently in wet conditions to the other three, coupled with your inappropriate speed, is this starting to make sense?
When I say I’ve been driving 7 years, I’m not trying to say, 7 years is a long time and I’m experienced, no I’m just saying that’s how long I have been driving. In those 7 years I’ve had 2 e46 330is, a Lexus is200, clk430 and an ep3 civic type r, bar the Lexus, you could say they’re all ‘fast’ cars and I’m not going to lie by saying I haven’t gone over the speed limit in all of those cars, yet not once did I ever find myself in that position where I think I’m going to lose my life.
Somebody mentioned the steering in the 4 series is electric therefore hides how the car feels through the wheel? In my type r, at any speed I could feel everything through the steering wheel, I know it’s fwd but is this a contributing factor? The 4 series being too smooth for its own good by hiding the fact that it’s struggling to keep stable at 90 mph?
Thanks again for all your input, this is what I love about pistonheads, I literally learn something new everyday
Somebody mentioned the steering in the 4 series is electric therefore hides how the car feels through the wheel? In my type r, at any speed I could feel everything through the steering wheel, I know it’s fwd but is this a contributing factor? The 4 series being too smooth for its own good by hiding the fact that it’s struggling to keep stable at 90 mph?
Thanks again for all your input, this is what I love about pistonheads, I literally learn something new everyday
Chestrockwell said:
I checked the tyres, there rears are on at least 3 mil, maybe more, the front left one is on also 3 And the other is on at least 6 as I replaced it a few months ago.
Tyres are manufacturer bridge stone potenza runflats, 225 front 255 rear.
One front on 3mm, the other front on 6mm, in extreme rain. That is like wearing a sock on one foot and a tennis shoe on the other, and running on a polished tiled floor.Tyres are manufacturer bridge stone potenza runflats, 225 front 255 rear.
Chestrockwell said:
Somebody mentioned the steering in the 4 series is electric therefore hides how the car feels through the wheel? In my type r, at any speed I could feel everything through the steering wheel, I know it’s fwd but is this a contributing factor?
Only if the rain on the windscreen, the sight of spray from other cars, and your speedo very clearly indicating excessive speed for the conditions wasn't obvious enough.I’ve been driving since 1982, two of the best things that worked for me to improve experience and skill levels is to do your Motorcycle test, it will improve your awareness and observational skills beyond belief, and secondly try something like Robb Gravett’s Ultimate Car Contol
http://www.ultimate-dek.co.uk
I did it about 15 years ago to help my track day skills, but on the road it transformed my driving and slowed me down considerably.
http://www.ultimate-dek.co.uk
I did it about 15 years ago to help my track day skills, but on the road it transformed my driving and slowed me down considerably.
Evanivitch said:
Chestrockwell said:
Somebody mentioned the steering in the 4 series is electric therefore hides how the car feels through the wheel? In my type r, at any speed I could feel everything through the steering wheel, I know it’s fwd but is this a contributing factor?
Only if the rain on the windscreen, the sight of spray from other cars, and your speedo very clearly indicating excessive speed for the conditions wasn't obvious enough.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff