Bmw 4 series spun out of control m25

[Chestrockwell]

Mr Tidy said:

Well I've just spent some time reading this thread from the start.

First off, credit to you OP for coming on here and admitting you may have got it wrong.

I'm sure most of us have had at least one moment like that (I know I have) - the crucial thing is to learn from it!

Nice to have a 430d after 7 years driving. I had a MKII Escort RS2000 when I had been driving 7 years, and back in the early 80s that was considered a reasonably quick car! You certainly knew you were pushing that at 90 mph, and I wouldn't have dreamt of trying to do that speed in the wet! But modern cars really do insulate you from speed.

I've had BMWs continuously since 2005, and found that they seem to be very sensitive when grip is limited such as in wet or icy conditions. And as someone mentioned earlier that gets much worse when the tyres are getting worn, even if they are still legal.

Just be eternally grateful you got away with it this time, and next time the traction light comes on when you are doing 80 or so please slow down!

I hope you continue to enjoy your car, but while recognising it's limitations!

Thank you and i am extremely grateful, losing control at 90 and going into a full spin without dying is a miracle! At the time when it happened, I was fully bracing myself looking out the windows to see what I’m going to hit, ready for impact, it’s mind blowing.....If I had crashed and broken my arm or leg or whatever, I would have felt extremely lucky to be alive.....let alone not even have so much as a scratch on the car!

Yes it’s nice to have the car at 23, worth noting that all of my cars before this didn’t cost over 2 grand bar my third car which was an automatic 2003 Toyota Corolla, I’ve worked really hard for this one so I will never put myself in that position again! An RS2000 would have been more than reasonably quick back in the 80’s for the performance on offer! These days you can call them zetec s 1.0 turbo fiestas reasonably quick and they’re mostly driven by old ladies ha!

[Chestrockwell]

superlightr said:

and Rospa.....;) IAM was ok RoSPA was much better.

Of course I have.

But I understood/understand the basics of car control, the risk of having multiple tyres of different tread depth as well as a good understanding of hazards and perception which includes driving in the rain and that it will affect grip !

The OP does not even have a clue as to basic driving or car control, basic understanding or risks for tyres/rain/ speed & warning lights let alone hazard awareness of the environment. Not having a clue as to what to even look out for takes so much more fundamental training to improve and make aware.

As you will know even the most skilled driver can have accidents but it certainly cuts down the risk of having an accident that could have been avoided with some basic driving skills and hazard awareness. The OP is a driving disaster at present.


What would you say to someone who doenst understand that its even a risk or issue of speeding at 90 in heavy rain with standing water with various tyre tread on all wheels and a bald tyre, flashing traction lights and never heard of aquaplaning? Its the lack of risk awareness that's my beef and calling him a bad driver.

He can improve and correct this lack of education and awareness and hope he does.

Edited by superlightr on Monday 13th November 13:54

Edited by superlightr on Monday 13th November 13:55

Edited by superlightr on Monday 13th November 13:57

I said the traction lights up when I hit a puddle in the rain or hit a pothole, at any speed, the car has 413lbft At 2k rpm and it’s at that part in the Rev range at most speeds so even a slight feather of the throttle can light the back tyres up, I never said it was constantly flashing, it didn’t even flash when I aqua ed! I said haven’t heard of aquaplaning which I said 20 times and explained myself and my willingness to learn while calling myself an idiot and extremely lucky....as for the tyres, like others have stated, are fine with day to day normal driving other than speeding in the rain in which I admitted I was wrong again about 10 times

Stop acting like a woman in an argument, I’ve written many paragraphs in this thread talking about loads of things and you keep going back to a sentence in which I mentioned a traction control light flashing when I hit a puddle or an imperfection on the road and the tyres! Jesus Christ

[Chestrockwell]

Lowtimer said:

This is bks.
Learn throttle control. Throttles are not light switches, and your BMW can deliver any amount of torque to the rear wheels less than 413 lb ft depending on what you tell it to do.
If you are hitting potholes or puddles while demanding significant accelerative or braking forces, you shouldn't be - that's basic driving.

If you’re ever in Surrey, give me a message and come take my car for a spin, from 2k rpm, I gaurentee you the lightest dab of the throttle will push you back into your seat, I never said I floor the car over potholes, I only mentioned the instances where the light comes on, an unfamiliar road at night, I’d be cruising at 40 and I’d hit one, that’s what I’m saying

[Chestrockwell]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Ok so tell me something, you’re driving your 650i, you’re cruising at 40, maintaing 40 with your foot on the throttle, it’s wet and you hit a pothole you didn’t see...are you saying your TC light won’t flash for a few seconds??? Come on it’s a known fact, all bmw’s are twitchy, especially in the wet, it’s just a fact of life, many people in this thread have also said it.

This thread has just gone off topic now, every man and their dog are telling me how back in their day they drove a stone without traction control!

That’s it for me chaps, thanks for the advice !

[Chestrockwell]

yonex said:

OP, you're wrong. Accept that the reasons you lost grip was down to your errors. Nobody is perfect.

In the message you’ve quoted, I’m on about the TC light, not aquaplaning, I’ve already admitted I was wrong

[Chestrockwell]

TooMany2cvs said:

Chestrockwell said:

Come on it’s a known fact, all bmw’s are twitchy, especially in the wet, it’s just a fact of life

If that's really true, then why on earth are you driving something so badly engineered and so appallingly underdeveloped? Flog it and buy something competent.

First of all I’m not blaming the car for aquaplaning for the millionth time, the topic swayed slightly to the subject of tc light flashing etc, I’m not saying it’s twitchy everywhere but over a road with imperfections and/or in the wet, it becomes twitchy at the rear, this is my experience of 3 bmw’s I’ve personally owned, my parents used 2 2012+ 120d’s and my brothers had a fair few BMW’s, we’ve all come to that conclusion but it doesn’t necessarily mean we think they’re badly engineered! It’s like VW’s, it’s a known fact that the engine light will always come on, or Michael Jackson being a paedophile....does that mean people have to stop listening to his music? Do you see any less VW’s in the road?? Come on

Sorry the Michael Jackson thing sprung to mind but it’s a similar comparison

[Chestrockwell]

zarjaz1991 said:

I'm afraid the OP has done himself no favours in continually blaming the car.

"Twitchy" indeed. <cough>

I was initially sympathetic but the subsequent attitude is not filling me with confidence and I wouldn't want to be driven by him anywhere.

I have mates aged 18 who have more driving awareness than this, and even not having the awareness is forgiveable but despite all the posts on the subject the OP is sticking to the idea that his car, that's less than two years old, is to blame because all BMWs are "twitchy".

I'll bet any money I could drive the OP's BMW in any conditions and not have it "twitch" so much as once. And I'm no great driver, let's be clear here.

Sorry OP but you really need to get your house in order here - seriously, before you disappear and then we read of some fatal crash involving a remarkably similar looking car. I'm not joking either. Get it sorted.

Read above ^ for fk sake I’m not blaming the Car for aquaplaning!!!!

[Chestrockwell]

bigdom said:

We're taking the OP's word that the cause of the incident was aquaplaning. Unfortunately the brain fills in gaps or creates the story in some situations to fit what we want it to do.

The only facts we have is that it was wet, it's 3am in the morning, and that he mum knows he drives in a way he shouldn't, he's also short-sighted so that also has a huge impact in those conditions.

Knowing the area it happened (it's about 20 mins from my house), I cannot ever remember in all the times I've used this section of standing water that would cause the issue as he's described.

Take my word or don’t, everything I said is the truth, there is absolutely no reason for me to twist what happened!

I don’t see what you mean by my brain creating stories or filling in gaps with I want to believe, it was wet, 3am, I was doing 90, hit standing water, Car started sliding, the back end slipped out slowly, regained grip and I spun out!

If you think my brain added the 90 because I was actually doing 140 or my brain added me not turning the wheel full lock to try and drift the car, why would I even start the thread?

[Chestrockwell]

justleanitupabit said:

And the 10 360s?

So you think I know the exact number of spins and multiplied it for a laugh? Come on man the car spun out at 90! how the eff am I supposed to know the exact number it spun around?? It felt like 10, I didn’t count, nor did I say I counted, it felt like 10, I don’t remember

[Chestrockwell]

_Neal_ said:

And I thank you for it



So, OP, were you going too fast for the conditions?

Yes I was but I was unaware at the time so I wasn’t purposely driving like a dick, now I know and it won’t happen again

[Chestrockwell]

Yeah so?

The second message you have quoted is what I think exactly happened after reading 25 pages worth of people telling me how this that and that occurred. No fundamental fact has been changed, the only thing that has changed is me saying I didnt see a puddle of any kind, which I still stand by, I hit standing water but I didn’t ses it, i now know I hit standing water. Nothing has changed ?

[Chestrockwell]

zarjaz1991 said:

Out of interest, what's the difference between 'standing water' and 'a puddle'? When does the first state of affairs become the second state of affairs? And how does the car know?

Sorry, nothing to do with the thread really, just wondering aloud.

Excuse me I am mistaken, I was under the impression standing water was something else, when it’s raining heavily on a flat road and the water doesn’t drain anywhere, others have mentioned it

[Chestrockwell]

superlightr said:

no comment.

Don’t you have anything better to do than study all of my replies on the forums? A man of your kind who owns an estate agent, married with kids presumably, running 2 very expensive cars, probably live in a nice house shouldn’t have that itch to really bother someone unless you’re some sort of bully with a rotten personality, how old are you? Move on...grow up

[Chestrockwell]

superlightr said:

That's the rub/ the itch - its tits like you who don't have a Scooby, who starts a thread about a twitchy BMW but forgets on another thread that they have admitted that "they drive like an idiot", weaves between traffic on the M way, blames the car, the weather whilst on a bald tyre and other mismatches tread on all tyres tyres, didn't go above 95mph but does spin (aquaplane) at 90mph in the dark, doesn't have any car skills that ends up killing families like mine. You paint a clear picture of what a hazard and type of car driver you are.

I bet you have not even changed the bald tyre over let alone the other mis-matched ones. ? If you have, and say you have I will believe you and bow out - but you don't even have the decency when all the posters have said its your fault, your driving skill, your tyres, your speed, and the one thing you can do to immediately help the situation is to get your tyres sorted you haven't done.

So please at least get the tyres sorted this week. Do get some driver training.

I sincerely don't want to read that you have wrapped yourself around a tree and certainly do not want to see you tank slap into me or my family.

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 15th November 19:21

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 15th November 19:23

I never blamed anything, at first I wanted to know what it was, I was looking to blame something but after a 26 page scolding, I became aware, I never blamed the tyres or weather, I simply stated my tyre tread and that was it?

As for the car being twitchy, somebody mentioned the TC light telling me I’m driving like an idiot when a lot of posters have confirmed that BMW’s systems are very intrusive and the light will flash even when you hit a bump on the road! I had then pointed out that in my experience BMW’s are twitchy in the wet!

Not sure how that warrants you to start quoting me on like a week old thread about my comment on an E63 or managing to find me on another thread about some chap who lost his licence, its what I call playground activity, I didn’t expect it here!

As for the tyres, you’ll be pleased to know my car is booked in tomorrow to address a brake squeal, BMW offer a complimentary health check so I will be finding out exactly the tread depths on the tyres and will be getting a quote on getting all 4 changed if worst comes to worst. I hope that gives you peace, as I hope you’ll give me peace and refrain yourself from trying to ridicule my every move on pistonheads

[Chestrockwell]

Pica-Pica said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Monkeylegend said:

spinning 10 times and stopping in the middle of a motorway is just a temporary loss of bearings.

When the SatNav starts throwing up...

"Please perform a U-turn where possible"

Funny you say that, the satnav had lost its mind after it happened, it literally kept on spinning around trying to find out where it is

[Chestrockwell]

Nanook said:

IIRC, he was bragging about how everyone looks at his car with his thumping bass, so he wheelspins off every junction to impress them.

You guys are like journalists on here :haha:

If that’s what helps you function on this Monday, you can run with that theory

[Chestrockwell]

superlightr said:

OP -

Hope you are building on your driving experience and not had any scares recently?

Did you sort the tyres out/have any extra training?

Edited by superlightr on Monday 1st October 10:43

I immediately changed all my tyres and haven’t let them go down below 3mm, my car passed its MOT last week, 7mm all round, no driver training but I take it easy now and advise everyone I see with bald tyres to change them immediately and drive carefully in the wet!

[Chestrockwell]

superlightr said:

Have a read of the thread - its scarily enlightening.

A quick summary -
- drives aggressively, inexperienced driver, spins at 90mph in heavy rain, in the dark, never heard of aquaplaning, doesnt understand the changing nature of grip with rain, doesn't understand car control, TC light flashes a lot at him, thinks its a twitchy BMW, admits to having mis-matched tyres and also at least one bald and wonders why the car spun on the Mway.

Edited by superlightr on Monday 1st October 11:32

Most of your summary is true, not going to hide from the fact that I didn’t know what aqua planing was, nor will I say the speed I was doing was appropriate, however, I will stand by my judgment of BMW’s, they are twitchy, owned 4 myself, brothers had 3 and my mum had 2 new 120d’s on RFT’s, can confirm all are twitchy, over potholes or crappy roads, they bounce and skip when pressing on, it’s a fact of life, many people agreed with me on this thread

[Chestrockwell]

HustleRussell said:

You could buy something which is easier to drive, a FWD small hatch with less power and skinnier tyres would be less likely to bite when handled incorrectly.

Not complaining, I love my car and I’ll never replace it with anything other than a BMW but I was just explaining to the other guy that, BMW’s are twitchy, it all started after I had said on the day I spun out, the TC light flashed twice when I was on the M25 and I had dismissed it due to the fact that every once in a while, the smallest imperfection on the road, even if I’m driving at 30mph could cause the light to flash, basically proving BMW’s are twitchy and the ESP corrects itself. The whole thing was a massive fk up, massive wake up call, my life was in danger and I’m grateful to be here, I was stupid and unaware

[Chestrockwell]

Nanook said:

Chestrockwell said:

Not complaining, I love my car and I’ll never replace it with anything other than a BMW but I was just explaining to the other guy that, BMW’s are twitchy, it all started after I had said on the day I spun out, the TC light flashed twice when I was on the M25 and I had dismissed it due to the fact that every once in a while, the smallest imperfection on the road, even if I’m driving at 30mph could cause the light to flash, basically proving BMW’s are twitchy and the ESP corrects itself. The whole thing was a massive fk up, massive wake up call, my life was in danger and I’m grateful to be here, I was stupid and unaware

How many times has your mother lost control of hers in that manner?

Never, The point is, Jeremy Clarkson spun an M135i on a wet runway in a straight line, the Golf GTI didn’t, I was at fault, but the point stands, BMW’s can bite you and they will if handled incorrectly