Bmw 4 series spun out of control m25
Discussion
67Dino said:
J4CKO said:
You dodged a bullet and gained experience without pain, death or expense, sometimes luck is on your side, glad you are ok.
This. Plus thanks for being honest and sharing - could just be that recalling this post saves a fellow PHer’s life one day.On a slightly separate note, I agree with those who've said wide tyres are making the situation worse. Almost all quick/quickish and even some not so quickish cars these days are wearing tyres fit for a 1000BHP behemoth. Plus, as sidewalls are getting ever smaller, for purely cosmetic reasons, feel, feedback and communication are evaporating leading to some scary moments. It's car designers sketching pictures of sports cars with 335/05 R26 tyres! Image over substance.
Usually when I'm driving along in the rain or cold damp weather conditions I'm overtaken by an army of people who think that they are invincible because they have a modern vehicle with lots of safety gizmos that will save them.
They often lose track of the fact that the laws of physics still apply and the only thing keeping them in contact with the road is 4 pieces of rubber.
As everyone has said, just learn to drive to the conditions.
They often lose track of the fact that the laws of physics still apply and the only thing keeping them in contact with the road is 4 pieces of rubber.
As everyone has said, just learn to drive to the conditions.
Shortly after I got my VXR8 upgraded to around 800BHP I was travelling up the A3 late at night in the pouring rain. Like you I was doing 80ish and all was well until I came round a long sweeping right hand bend to find what I can only call a small river running directly across the road. In no time I was looking out the passenger window to see down the road. Luckily I got away with only a large tankslapper, and like you I was lucky that the road was empty. Lesson learned and now am even more careful. This is after 15 years of driving.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrVaKgNaUEI
so this really.
The thing is as much as PHers get a spazz on over 50/50 Weight distribution, in the wet on wide tyres the potential to aquaplane is higher than other cars. Basically slow down and drive to the conditions, modern cars make you feel invincible, cocooned from the outside, but are still susceptible to aquaplaning, especially with stupid wide tyres on everything.
Also i know on the other thread your 'friend' drove at 130mph on the m25, maybe you and your 'friend' have learnt a hard lesson.
so this really.
The thing is as much as PHers get a spazz on over 50/50 Weight distribution, in the wet on wide tyres the potential to aquaplane is higher than other cars. Basically slow down and drive to the conditions, modern cars make you feel invincible, cocooned from the outside, but are still susceptible to aquaplaning, especially with stupid wide tyres on everything.
Also i know on the other thread your 'friend' drove at 130mph on the m25, maybe you and your 'friend' have learnt a hard lesson.
Edited by The Spruce goose on Saturday 11th November 11:07
Mave said:
This was the bit that caught my attention - routinely having the stability light kicking in - which means routinely driving to the limit and then, on this occasion, exceeding it.
That part of the story also alarmed me. I have driven an M135i and M140i for thousands of miles around our motorway network, and know that part of the M25 very well, and I honestly can't remember the traction/stability control light ever lighting up on a motorway.If the stability control light is routinely flashing in the rain, then you are routinely driving far too fast and aggressively for the conditions, which means that an incident was just a matter of time.
It's the standard reaction to the massive brown trouser moment. " why did the car do this to me" " why did it lose grip" " there must have been diesel on the road"..
In a couple of days time, you will accept you simply cocked up. I used to drive the m25 from jct8 to jct 23 ( and back) 2 or 3 times a month, and in heavy rain I would say one time in three there was a Bmw with a bent bumper on the hard shoulder. Usually a 3 series coupe. It's a product of the modern cars abilities, some of the element that make them so confidence inspiring in better condition ( stability, mechanical grip, refinement, good stability systems etc) detract from what is physically possible. People learn to rely on the car, and as others have already said, that works until it doesn't..
You won't be the last to do it, probably this week. And whilst I am resolutely not the one of the " this is why we have speed limits" brigade, you were driving too fast. The speed limit is just a sign on a post, not the appropriate speed for the condition. I will happily admit to having driven my own 330 at speeds which would make some members on here go apoplectic with rage when I think the risk is acceptable. But I have also driven on clear, empty motorways at 40-50mph when it's coming down because Aquaplanning is a real possibility.
In a couple of days time, you will accept you simply cocked up. I used to drive the m25 from jct8 to jct 23 ( and back) 2 or 3 times a month, and in heavy rain I would say one time in three there was a Bmw with a bent bumper on the hard shoulder. Usually a 3 series coupe. It's a product of the modern cars abilities, some of the element that make them so confidence inspiring in better condition ( stability, mechanical grip, refinement, good stability systems etc) detract from what is physically possible. People learn to rely on the car, and as others have already said, that works until it doesn't..
You won't be the last to do it, probably this week. And whilst I am resolutely not the one of the " this is why we have speed limits" brigade, you were driving too fast. The speed limit is just a sign on a post, not the appropriate speed for the condition. I will happily admit to having driven my own 330 at speeds which would make some members on here go apoplectic with rage when I think the risk is acceptable. But I have also driven on clear, empty motorways at 40-50mph when it's coming down because Aquaplanning is a real possibility.
Having to slow down to overtake other cars due to excessive water spray should have immediately raised alarm bells!!! Clearly the road surface was saturated, not just wet. A clear lack of experience and understanding of how the conditions affect traction are to blame. Nothing to do with your car or what happens in Germany. Learn from it and slow down! Ffs!!
I've not read the replies to this thread, but I would imagine 95% of them have gave a very similar answer.
You were simply driving inappropriately for the conditions. Too fast, through too deep water, or with too worn or perhaps even an inappropriate tyre.
Your lack of understanding of this has caused you to endanger yourself and others. A lack of observation has no doubt exaggerated this.
The justification about being legal in Germany shows a level of immaturity. If you had encountered the same set of conditions, in the same car at the same speed, the outcome would have been the same, regardless of the legality of it.
You were simply driving inappropriately for the conditions. Too fast, through too deep water, or with too worn or perhaps even an inappropriate tyre.
Your lack of understanding of this has caused you to endanger yourself and others. A lack of observation has no doubt exaggerated this.
The justification about being legal in Germany shows a level of immaturity. If you had encountered the same set of conditions, in the same car at the same speed, the outcome would have been the same, regardless of the legality of it.
OpulentBob said:
67Dino said:
J4CKO said:
You dodged a bullet and gained experience without pain, death or expense, sometimes luck is on your side, glad you are ok.
This. Plus thanks for being honest and sharing - could just be that recalling this post saves a fellow PHer’s life one day.OP, lesson learned, could have been far worse but ultimately no harm done. I'm sure we've all had near misses at some point.
I do a lot of safety-related work, and for all that, NOTHING is as important as the ability to be honest about your mistakes and learn from them. Everything else is learning from other people's mistakes - which you'll never do if you can't learn from your own.
Have to say, that Clarkson spin does look quite fun though. Unfortunately I lack private unrestrained access to an airfield.
Edited by paranoid airbag on Saturday 11th November 10:43
t.I have only read the ops post so not aware what others have said BUT I fee you know you were not driving to the conditions you keep talking about your speed and justifying your actions! The fact your own mother said she was going to call you for the duration of your return rings alarm bells to me about your driving!
You weren't driving to the conditions you were speeding to me that's dangerous driving! In those conditions I would have probably not even been doing 70mph
I'm sure you've learnt your lesson but you need to accept that our driving is 100% to blame
Also I've also had a speed related aquaplaning accident and that was only at 30mph into the. Sick of someone! My fault lesson learnt,
You weren't driving to the conditions you were speeding to me that's dangerous driving! In those conditions I would have probably not even been doing 70mph
I'm sure you've learnt your lesson but you need to accept that our driving is 100% to blame
Also I've also had a speed related aquaplaning accident and that was only at 30mph into the. Sick of someone! My fault lesson learnt,
Edited by ghost83 on Saturday 11th November 10:53
PK0001 said:
Just look at the latest Audi advert which shoes a Q5 in the rain and tells you that the car is making decisions for you for gods sake. Appalling advert.
I have had several BMW's and in the rain you have to adapt your driving as they are terrible in the wet. Run Flats, rear wheel drive with no weight over the rear axle, and dim witted electric steering are not a great combination.
So if i understand correctly, you say the Audi is crap because it uses AI to keep the car stable in the rain, but the BMW is also crap because it handles badly in the rain.I have had several BMW's and in the rain you have to adapt your driving as they are terrible in the wet. Run Flats, rear wheel drive with no weight over the rear axle, and dim witted electric steering are not a great combination.
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