Bmw 4 series spun out of control m25

[Chestrockwell]

superlightr said:

OP -

Hope you are building on your driving experience and not had any scares recently?

Did you sort the tyres out/have any extra training?

Edited by superlightr on Monday 1st October 10:43

I immediately changed all my tyres and haven’t let them go down below 3mm, my car passed its MOT last week, 7mm all round, no driver training but I take it easy now and advise everyone I see with bald tyres to change them immediately and drive carefully in the wet!

[Chestrockwell]

superlightr said:

Have a read of the thread - its scarily enlightening.

A quick summary -
- drives aggressively, inexperienced driver, spins at 90mph in heavy rain, in the dark, never heard of aquaplaning, doesnt understand the changing nature of grip with rain, doesn't understand car control, TC light flashes a lot at him, thinks its a twitchy BMW, admits to having mis-matched tyres and also at least one bald and wonders why the car spun on the Mway.

Edited by superlightr on Monday 1st October 11:32

Most of your summary is true, not going to hide from the fact that I didn’t know what aqua planing was, nor will I say the speed I was doing was appropriate, however, I will stand by my judgment of BMW’s, they are twitchy, owned 4 myself, brothers had 3 and my mum had 2 new 120d’s on RFT’s, can confirm all are twitchy, over potholes or crappy roads, they bounce and skip when pressing on, it’s a fact of life, many people agreed with me on this thread

[alec.e]

No different/worse than most other RWD cars though? My 6 series is suprisingly stable in the wet.

Driving to the conditions is what it comes down to at the end of the day...

[HustleRussell]

Chestrockwell said:

Most of your summary is true, not going to hide from the fact that I didn’t know what aqua planing was, nor will I say the speed I was doing was appropriate, however, I will stand by my judgment of BMW’s, they are twitchy, owned 4 myself, brothers had 3 and my mum had 2 new 120d’s on RFT’s, can confirm all are twitchy, over potholes or crappy roads, they bounce and skip when pressing on, it’s a fact of life, many people agreed with me on this thread

You could buy something which is easier to drive, a FWD small hatch with less power and skinnier tyres would be less likely to bite when handled incorrectly.

[Triumph Man]

Chestrockwell said:

superlightr said:

Have a read of the thread - its scarily enlightening.

A quick summary -
- drives aggressively, inexperienced driver, spins at 90mph in heavy rain, in the dark, never heard of aquaplaning, doesnt understand the changing nature of grip with rain, doesn't understand car control, TC light flashes a lot at him, thinks its a twitchy BMW, admits to having mis-matched tyres and also at least one bald and wonders why the car spun on the Mway.

Edited by superlightr on Monday 1st October 11:32

Most of your summary is true, not going to hide from the fact that I didn’t know what aqua planing was, nor will I say the speed I was doing was appropriate, however, I will stand by my judgment of BMW’s, they are twitchy, owned 4 myself, brothers had 3 and my mum had 2 new 120d’s on RFT’s, can confirm all are twitchy, over potholes or crappy roads, they bounce and skip when pressing on, it’s a fact of life, many people agreed with me on this thread

Neither of my BMWs are what I would describe as "twitchy"

[TooMany2cvs]

Chestrockwell said:

...however, I will stand by my judgment of BMW’s, they are twitchy, owned 4 myself, brothers had 3 and my mum had 2 new 120d’s on RFT’s, can confirm all are twitchy...

<shrug>
Flog it and buy something else, then.

[Chestrockwell]

HustleRussell said:

You could buy something which is easier to drive, a FWD small hatch with less power and skinnier tyres would be less likely to bite when handled incorrectly.

Not complaining, I love my car and I’ll never replace it with anything other than a BMW but I was just explaining to the other guy that, BMW’s are twitchy, it all started after I had said on the day I spun out, the TC light flashed twice when I was on the M25 and I had dismissed it due to the fact that every once in a while, the smallest imperfection on the road, even if I’m driving at 30mph could cause the light to flash, basically proving BMW’s are twitchy and the ESP corrects itself. The whole thing was a massive fk up, massive wake up call, my life was in danger and I’m grateful to be here, I was stupid and unaware

[Chestrockwell]

Nanook said:

Chestrockwell said:

Not complaining, I love my car and I’ll never replace it with anything other than a BMW but I was just explaining to the other guy that, BMW’s are twitchy, it all started after I had said on the day I spun out, the TC light flashed twice when I was on the M25 and I had dismissed it due to the fact that every once in a while, the smallest imperfection on the road, even if I’m driving at 30mph could cause the light to flash, basically proving BMW’s are twitchy and the ESP corrects itself. The whole thing was a massive fk up, massive wake up call, my life was in danger and I’m grateful to be here, I was stupid and unaware

How many times has your mother lost control of hers in that manner?

Never, The point is, Jeremy Clarkson spun an M135i on a wet runway in a straight line, the Golf GTI didn’t, I was at fault, but the point stands, BMW’s can bite you and they will if handled incorrectly

[Zod]

Chestrockwell said:

superlightr said:

Have a read of the thread - its scarily enlightening.

A quick summary -
- drives aggressively, inexperienced driver, spins at 90mph in heavy rain, in the dark, never heard of aquaplaning, doesnt understand the changing nature of grip with rain, doesn't understand car control, TC light flashes a lot at him, thinks its a twitchy BMW, admits to having mis-matched tyres and also at least one bald and wonders why the car spun on the Mway.

Edited by superlightr on Monday 1st October 11:32

Most of your summary is true, not going to hide from the fact that I didn’t know what aqua planing was, nor will I say the speed I was doing was appropriate, however, I will stand by my judgment of BMW’s, they are twitchy, owned 4 myself, brothers had 3 and my mum had 2 new 120d’s on RFT’s, can confirm all are twitchy, over potholes or crappy roads, they bounce and skip when pressing on, it’s a fact of life, many people agreed with me on this thread

I've had eight of them, including four M cars. The only time I've crashed one was one of BMW's cars on the Nordschleife. They are not "twitchy". They are simply rear wheel drive cars. You need to understand how to drive such a car and how it behaves in all conditions, before taking it out at 90mph in the wet. My old M3 CSL and my current car have been driven on semi-slicks in the rain many times. They only "twitch" if your right foot is too heavy.

I remember two significant instances of aquaplaning: one in an M3 on the A5 in Germany and one in an M5 on the M1. Both were scary, but both times, I did nothing to disturb the car and it carried on straight. On each occasion, I slowed down afterwards!

[mcdjl]

Nanook should have said:

The manner in which Clarkson a lead footed monkey was driving that 135i on a runway should have nothing to do with the way you were driving on the road though. Take care.

[anonymous-user]

Must have been scary

Glad you are OK

Use the lesson in how such cars handle in such conditions to help make sure you don't let it happen to you again

[Tomthespesh]

Chestrockwell said:

Never, The point is, Jeremy Clarkson spun an M135i on a wet runway in a straight line, the Golf GTI didn’t, I was at fault, but the point stands, BMW’s can bite you and they will if handled incorrectly

I vaguely remember that Top Gear, wasn't it against a Golf R/R32? So 4WD vs RWD in the wet. Any powerful RWD in the wet will bite you if you're not paying attention it's not exclusively BMWs.

[Pintofbest]

Tomthespesh said:

I vaguely remember that Top Gear, wasn't it against a Golf R/R32? So 4WD vs RWD in the wet. Any powerful RWD in the wet will bite you if you're not paying attention it's not exclusively BMWs.

He also had the TC off too - you can see the dash warning over his shoulder in the in car shots.

[HustleRussell]

Chestrockwell said:

HustleRussell said:

You could buy something which is easier to drive, a FWD small hatch with less power and skinnier tyres would be less likely to bite when handled incorrectly.

Not complaining, I love my car and I’ll never replace it with anything other than a BMW but I was just explaining to the other guy that, BMW’s are twitchy, it all started after I had said on the day I spun out, the TC light flashed twice when I was on the M25 and I had dismissed it due to the fact that every once in a while, the smallest imperfection on the road, even if I’m driving at 30mph could cause the light to flash, basically proving BMW’s are twitchy and the ESP corrects itself. The whole thing was a massive fk up, massive wake up call, my life was in danger and I’m grateful to be here, I was stupid and unaware

It's good that you acknowledge your error but you shouldn't be relying on your stability control to indicate when you are overstepping the limit- you should be developing a 'seat of the pants' feel for what the car is doing. BMWs are not worse at telegraphing this information than other cars. They probably do it better than most.

[Leonard Stanley]

Nanook said:

Chestrockwell said:

Never, The point is, Jeremy Clarkson spun an M135i on a wet runway in a straight line, the Golf GTI didn’t, I was at fault, but the point stands, BMW’s can bite you and they will if handled incorrectly

My car will bite you if handled incorrectly. I suspect most will. This is not exclusive to BMWs.

Actually, my previous car was much more of a tt in the rain than my current one. It was mid engined, with a short wheelbase, and a helical diff, it would snap from under to oversteer very easily in the wet, if you weren't careful.

The manner in which Clarkson was driving that 135i on a runway should have nothing to do with the way you were driving on the road though. Take care.

[RobM77]

I'm on my 6th BMW over 16 years, the latest one with modified suspension, and I wouldn't describe any of them as 'twitchy', with the possible exception of my Z4 Coupé in the wet. However, it's generally the case that the better the balance and the nicer a car handles, the more there's the possibility of it biting you. If driven unsympathetically, any car will bite you (my wife spun her Ka once!). An Audi A4 or Ford Mondeo that pitches its soft front end and doggedly understeers is less likely to bite you than a 4 series that has an inherent natural balance and rear drive. Even staying within the FE/RWD layout, an MX5 is more likely to bite you than a 4 series, and a Caterham much more likely still. It must be said though that the rewards to driving those cars I've listed increase as you go through the list.

[Bennet]

All this advice was absolutely done to death the first time around in this thread and the OP has already said, repeatedly, that he understands and that he's learned from it.

[RobM77]

Pintofbest said:

Tomthespesh said:

I vaguely remember that Top Gear, wasn't it against a Golf R/R32? So 4WD vs RWD in the wet. Any powerful RWD in the wet will bite you if you're not paying attention it's not exclusively BMWs.

He also had the TC off too - you can see the dash warning over his shoulder in the in car shots.

He's also a clumsy oaf behind the wheel! As I said above, if you do the right things in the right order, you can crash any car. I've been driven by a lot of people, some car enthusiasts, who do the exact things you need to do to spin a car; the fact they don't is simply cause they don't drive fast enough.

[Chamon_Lee]

OP you just don't have enough experience or understanding of what happened or how it happened. This is not 100% your fault as your education system of driving in the UK is pathetic.

You were driving above the conditions permitted (clearly!) however to get a better understanding you can do various things.

Do some research on aquaplanning, tyres (width of tyres) how it impacts etc
Watch youtube videos on how aquaplanning happens (your lack of knowledge is clear from saying like there was no standing water). If your tyres cant clear the water faster thank you are driving you then essentially build a small wall of water infront of the wheel and your car then start driving on top of the water rather than the road. I suspect this happened over a longer period than you think it happened all be it not minutes! or even a minute!
Get some experience on a skid pan!
Glad your safe.

[Limpet]

If your ESP light is blinking under "normal" driving conditions, you are doing something wrong. Every time that light flickers, the systems have intervened somewhere to correct the car on your behalf. The fact you can't really feel or notice this is testament to how clever these systems are.

They help you out within the boundaries of the laws of physics, but they have their limitations.

We've all pushed our luck, sometimes we've not got away with it. Chalk it up to experience and learn from it.