RE: Kia Stinger GT-S vs. BMW 440i Coupe

[moffat]

chelme said:

BMW salesman? ;-)

Maybe purchase justification

In all seriousness, I'm certainly not a BMW salesman as they would have pushed you spend more on the Adaptive suspension! I just did a lot of research when buying the car and drove a few. I couldn't get a deal close on an S5, C43 or M2. Pretty gutted the support for discount for the M4 CP has come back as that would have swung me back in April when I ordered my car.

[moffat]

dinkel said:

BMW got worse - since last 10 years - and Kia gets better.

Not exactly a challenge for Kia to get better is it.

[culpz]

Ares said:

chelme said:

If I were in the market for these cars, and I never will be, I would choose the car which is most fun to drive.

It appears that BMW have lost the way, and it took a BMW veteran of the old school, to show them how it is done with a Kia.

Having driven/owned BMWs from the mid-90s to the current day, I can assure you BMW have not 'lost their way' - times change and halcyon memories deceive. Cars are heavier than they were, although currently getting lighter again.

I don't personally think that's the case. BMW will still sell shed-loads of these 440i's compared to the KIA. They will also always have the brand/badge kudos/image, the nice quality interior, the better discounts/PCP/lease deals, the heritage, the German-car desirability and so on. That's simply on a general scale.

It's not that they have lost their way, it's more that KIA are finally upping their game. I do think they need to be careful though, as BMW does now appear to have some dilution headed their way. I think that the Ultimate Driving Machine may no longer be applicable, with the introduction of FWD to some of their platforms.

[E65Ross]

I may be missing something, but the article says the Kia delivers something new for the sector? What sector? It's priced the same as the BMW.....so it's in the same market sector, no?

[kambites]

dinkel said:

BMW got worse - since last 10 years - and Kia gets better.

I think that's unfair. BMW have shifted their focus, the cars are better for most buyers than they've ever been; they're just not as "keen-driver" focused as they used to be because that's not what the huge majority of their customers want. The 440i isn't really meant to be a sporty car - it's a motorway mile muncher which happens to have a powerful petrol engine. That it (and the rest of the 3-series range) drives as well as it does whilst fulfilling its main brief so well is a credit to them really.

[kambites]

E65Ross said:

I may be missing something, but the article says the Kia delivers something new for the sector? What sector? It's priced the same as the BMW.....so it's in the same market sector, no?

It's actually closer to the 5/6-series in terms of dimensions. I suppose it's inevitable that it's compared to the 4-series GC because of the similar design brief and price but it's a bigger car.

I agree that it's hardly revolutionary though. Just another competitor in an already well established market.

ETA: In fact maybe the whole thing makes mode sense if it's viewed as a budget 6-series GC competitor rather than a 4-series one?

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 14th November 09:24

[nickfrog]

carl_w said:

Ares said:

Formidable effort from Kia. I won't hurt BMW sales, but an interesting effort to start dragging the brand upwards.

They have shot themselves in the foot thought with a list price of £40,450.... Knock £500 off and it's within the lower RFL bracket - big difference over the life of a vehicle.

Yes, they could have put it on 16" steel wheels and offered alloys as a £500 dealer fit option, or something.

That solution wouldn't have worked but the original pricing will as it is, as you can deduct the OTR costs so that should bring it to under the £40k bracket from HMRC's POV. It's still stupid though as most potential buyers (all 5 of them) will also assume that it does miss out on the lower RFL rate.

FWIW I think BMWs are no worse/better cars than they used to be for the purpose intended, ie humble road use.

[E65Ross]

kambites said:

I think that's unfair. BMW have shifted their focus, the cars are better for most buyers than they've ever been; they're just not as "keen-driver" focused as they used to be because that's not what the huge majority of their customers want. The 440i isn't really meant to be a sporty car - it's a motorway mile muncher which happens to have a powerful petrol engine. That it (and the rest of the 3-series range) drives as well as it does whilst fulfilling its main brief so well is a credit to them really.

This

[moffat]

E65Ross said:

kambites said:

I think that's unfair. BMW have shifted their focus, the cars are better for most buyers than they've ever been; they're just not as "keen-driver" focused as they used to be because that's not what the huge majority of their customers want. The 440i isn't really meant to be a sporty car - it's a motorway mile muncher which happens to have a powerful petrol engine. That it (and the rest of the 3-series range) drives as well as it does whilst fulfilling its main brief so well is a credit to them really.

This

But it's not just BMW is it?

All volume manufacturers have done the same, in part due to regulation for building safer and more efficient cars. Even the current Porsche 911 is not the same driving tool as the 993. Hydraulic steering gone, NA engines gone etc etc. Every car seems to have numb steering, Audi just seem to excel at making it worse than everyone else.

[kambites]

moffat said:

But it's not just BMW is it?

All volume manufacturers have done the same, in part due to regulation for building safer and more efficient cars.

Most volume manufacturers never really attempted to appeal to keen drivers in the first place. But yes I agree that companies like Porsche are doing much the same.

[covmutley]

dinkel said:

BMW got worse - since last 10 years - and Kia gets better.

How many cars do BMW sell now compared to 10 years ago? I suspect its quite a lot more.

[GTEYE]

E65Ross said:

kambites said:

I think that's unfair. BMW have shifted their focus, the cars are better for most buyers than they've ever been; they're just not as "keen-driver" focused as they used to be because that's not what the huge majority of their customers want. The 440i isn't really meant to be a sporty car - it's a motorway mile muncher which happens to have a powerful petrol engine. That it (and the rest of the 3-series range) drives as well as it does whilst fulfilling its main brief so well is a credit to them really.

This

Finally someone who talks sense.

[D200]

GTEYE said:

E65Ross said:

kambites said:

I think that's unfair. BMW have shifted their focus, the cars are better for most buyers than they've ever been; they're just not as "keen-driver" focused as they used to be because that's not what the huge majority of their customers want. The 440i isn't really meant to be a sporty car - it's a motorway mile muncher which happens to have a powerful petrol engine. That it (and the rest of the 3-series range) drives as well as it does whilst fulfilling its main brief so well is a credit to them really.

This

Finally someone who talks sense.

Exactly, very well put.

Amazing how lots here have come to conclusion that all BMW's are st and this Kia is the second coming based on this very brief test - and one persons opinion - with a vague inconclusive conclusion baffles me.

Well, actually it doesn't as this is the pistonheads forum after all so it was to be fully expected.

Just completely irrelevant nonsense from people are not in the market for - and haven't driven - either car. Plus would not in a million years buy the Kia.

[fwaggie]

A great pity the Kia has the "Halfords satnav/infotainment" display.

Especially as immediately below it is a large space that's empty apart from three vents that could have easily been moved to result in a nice integrated dash.

Ugly, ugly, ugly.

Apart from that, like, like, like.

[hammo19]

You have to applause Kia for making a punt at this sector in the market. Lovely looking car. Was never really sure about the name but good luck to them.

[theplayingmantis]

ambuletz said:

Ali G said:

Kia is less likely to be driven by complete nobs.

yup. someone with a brain and ability to look at it on paper will probably go for the kia.

i'm glad they are trying. st like this is too dominated by the likes of BMW, VW, Audi, merc etc..

i want more of the jap/korean brands to bring out more of their better value counterparts. much like how clarkson made the comparison with a mazda 6 MPS against a BMW 3 series.

What an odd comment. The beemer out performs it, is better quality both tangible and intangible, satisfies the badge snobs, has far superior residuals and in reality will be cheaper with the deals obtainable.

This suggests that only the moron would go for the embarrassing stinger.

[dinkel]

kambites said:

dinkel said:

BMW got worse - since last 10 years - and Kia gets better.

I think that's unfair. BMW have shifted their focus, the cars are better for most buyers than they've ever been; they're just not as "keen-driver" focused as they used to be because that's not what the huge majority of their customers want. The 440i isn't really meant to be a sporty car - it's a motorway mile muncher which happens to have a powerful petrol engine. That it (and the rest of the 3-series range) drives as well as it does whilst fulfilling its main brief so well is a credit to them really.

...and what a shame.

[Ares]

dinkel said:

kambites said:

dinkel said:

BMW got worse - since last 10 years - and Kia gets better.

I think that's unfair. BMW have shifted their focus, the cars are better for most buyers than they've ever been; they're just not as "keen-driver" focused as they used to be because that's not what the huge majority of their customers want. The 440i isn't really meant to be a sporty car - it's a motorway mile muncher which happens to have a powerful petrol engine. That it (and the rest of the 3-series range) drives as well as it does whilst fulfilling its main brief so well is a credit to them really.

...and what a shame.

For whom?

[vsonix]

Gandahar said:

Stinger sounds like something the day after a nasty curry in Halesowen though.....

Or something out of Grand Theft Auto. IIRC the 'Stinger' was their take on the Corvette Stingray.


I can't help thinking they'd clean up with it if it was a few grand cheaper.

My main issue with it is I don't like the front end/radiator grill area. It reminds me of a Mondeo with a pinch in it.

[beerexpressman]

Stinger sounds like something the day after a nasty curry in Halesowen though.....


[/quote]

Not the Ameena, surely?