RE: Kia Stinger GT-S vs. BMW 440i Coupe
Discussion
GTEYE said:
I'm sure its a decent car, but its wrong for the UK market...and will likely fade into oblivion quite quickly
It will probably help sell more GT-Lines across the range. Would an M-Sport BMW have any (perceived) credibility with true M cars. It is the stuff that helps sell the higher spec, higher margin versions of the bread and butter ranges.Creating some exclusivity in a range generally viewed as good value family runabouts and moving the image of the brand up (even if it is mainly what people read than see on the roads every day) is probably a bigger aim than selling loads IMHO. The Stinger will be treated like a supercar in KIA dealerships!
It sadly seems that BMW have forgotten that they had a long prosperous history
Of building playful, well balanced, well built rear wheel drive saloons.
In their quest to match Audi & Mercedes blow for blow they've dropped the ball
On arguably their USP in the market place.
It's such a shame, I'm a life long Bmw fan but if they keep producing shiny well made
Products with lifeless steering I'll be taking my coin elsewhere.
Still, front wheel drive mainstream BMW's are coming.....
Of building playful, well balanced, well built rear wheel drive saloons.
In their quest to match Audi & Mercedes blow for blow they've dropped the ball
On arguably their USP in the market place.
It's such a shame, I'm a life long Bmw fan but if they keep producing shiny well made
Products with lifeless steering I'll be taking my coin elsewhere.
Still, front wheel drive mainstream BMW's are coming.....
Frimley111R said:
BMW's brand strength in the premium sector is a million miles ahead of KIA. From that viewpoint its no contest.
Of course it is, however, if KIA wants to move the brand image up it needs to create new models and build its image.When you compare a current KIA model to one ten years ago there is an enormous difference and the brand image is significantly greater than it was. It takes time and needs a strategic approach.
Looks and seems a nice car, with the odd niggle - but in badge snobbery UK it's just not going to sell. I have sympathy with some of these 'new-ish' car companies; they can make an absolute belter, but if it's not the right badge, they've had it. Even now, there are many who still won't touch a Skoda or Seat.....
10-15+ years ago, Kia would have entered a high profile motorsport series to sell their 'image/ product'.....
10-15+ years ago, Kia would have entered a high profile motorsport series to sell their 'image/ product'.....
Lots of negatives about the 440i, much from people who have no doubt not even driven the car.
Also odd considering the good reviews it gets, better overall than the S5 and similar to the C43:
Autocar - 4.5/5
What Car - 4/5
Car Maganzine: 4/5
Telegraph - 4/5
EVO - 4/5
Auto Express - 4/5
Also try driving the competition e.g . S5 and C43. The S5 has terribly numb steering and isn't any better to drive and the C43 whilst sounding good and has a strong engine (against a non MPPSK 440) has equally numb steering.
The B58 in the 40i equipped cars is an absolute peach and will be the platform for the new M3/M4 engine. Not only does it provide great power and torque, it does so with amazing mpg for a 3 litre turbo and with really low CO2 (who cares!). It's not as tuneable as the N54 or N55 though.
Also odd considering the good reviews it gets, better overall than the S5 and similar to the C43:
Autocar - 4.5/5
What Car - 4/5
Car Maganzine: 4/5
Telegraph - 4/5
EVO - 4/5
Auto Express - 4/5
Also try driving the competition e.g . S5 and C43. The S5 has terribly numb steering and isn't any better to drive and the C43 whilst sounding good and has a strong engine (against a non MPPSK 440) has equally numb steering.
The B58 in the 40i equipped cars is an absolute peach and will be the platform for the new M3/M4 engine. Not only does it provide great power and torque, it does so with amazing mpg for a 3 litre turbo and with really low CO2 (who cares!). It's not as tuneable as the N54 or N55 though.
moffat said:
Lots of negatives about the 440i, much from people who have no doubt not even driven the car.
Also odd considering the good reviews it gets, better overall than the S5 and similar to the C43:
Autocar - 4.5/5
What Car - 4/5
Car Maganzine: 4/5
Telegraph - 4/5
EVO - 4/5
Auto Express - 4/5
Also try driving the competition e.g . S5 and C43. The S5 has terribly numb steering and isn't any better to drive and the C43 whilst sounding good and has a strong engine (against a non MPPSK 440) has equally numb steering.
The B58 in the 40i equipped cars is an absolute peach and will be the platform for the new M3/M4 engine. Not only does it provide great power and torque, it does so with amazing mpg for a 3 litre turbo and with really low CO2 (who cares!). It's not as tuneable as the N54 or N55 though.
Like most BMW's, the 440i has a great engine, but BMW has really let itself down in the ride quality and especially in the non-fitment of an LSD and therefore an over-reliance on the stability and traction control software to keep things in line rather than mechanical means.Also odd considering the good reviews it gets, better overall than the S5 and similar to the C43:
Autocar - 4.5/5
What Car - 4/5
Car Maganzine: 4/5
Telegraph - 4/5
EVO - 4/5
Auto Express - 4/5
Also try driving the competition e.g . S5 and C43. The S5 has terribly numb steering and isn't any better to drive and the C43 whilst sounding good and has a strong engine (against a non MPPSK 440) has equally numb steering.
The B58 in the 40i equipped cars is an absolute peach and will be the platform for the new M3/M4 engine. Not only does it provide great power and torque, it does so with amazing mpg for a 3 litre turbo and with really low CO2 (who cares!). It's not as tuneable as the N54 or N55 though.
I say this as someone who has driven and owned plenty of fast BMW's in the past. Having driven a friends 440i (GC in Essex boy white) recently, it was equally as annoying as my old F31 330d for having the TC light flickering away when you start to push on.
The steering is not great either, so whilst they are very good cars, there is plenty to annoy for what BMW still try to term "The ultimate Driving Machine." They're good but not that good.
I always suggest people make their own minds up and use mag tests as a guide rather than the basis of truth.
I genuinely like this new KIA and it definitely appears to hold it's own against the 440i, which is a great achievement in itself. Sadly, however, i'm not sure that they will sell very well over here. I don't even think it will be because of the faults highlighted in the review. Mainly, i reckon, it'll be due to BMW's generous discounts and decent PCP/lease deals.
I'm really not sure KIA can compete here to make this model look like a better bet. I'm hoping that i'm proven wrong but i can't really see it, to be brutal.
I'm really not sure KIA can compete here to make this model look like a better bet. I'm hoping that i'm proven wrong but i can't really see it, to be brutal.
People are talking about the Stinger GT S as Kia’s halo car, which would be fine if it had some visibility.
I went to the Kia UK website and the Stinger is not shown in their new car range. “OK, it’s a new car,” I thought and found it through the search bar.
Onto the configuration and the website would only show one colour and didn’t list all of the options. “OK, I’ll find a dealer and see it in person,” I thought and clicked the appropriate button...
It may well be a better buy than a 440i for a lot of people but Kia aren’t helping themselves!
Anyway, as a prospective GT S buyer coming from a BMW, I found the comparison useful - thanks Matt.
I went to the Kia UK website and the Stinger is not shown in their new car range. “OK, it’s a new car,” I thought and found it through the search bar.
Onto the configuration and the website would only show one colour and didn’t list all of the options. “OK, I’ll find a dealer and see it in person,” I thought and clicked the appropriate button...
It may well be a better buy than a 440i for a lot of people but Kia aren’t helping themselves!
Anyway, as a prospective GT S buyer coming from a BMW, I found the comparison useful - thanks Matt.
IforB said:
Like most BMW's, the 440i has a great engine, but BMW has really let itself down in the ride quality and especially in the non-fitment of an LSD and therefore an over-reliance on the stability and traction control software to keep things in line rather than mechanical means.
I say this as someone who has driven and owned plenty of fast BMW's in the past. Having driven a friends 440i (GC in Essex boy white) recently, it was equally as annoying as my old F31 330d for having the TC light flickering away when you start to push on.
The steering is not great either, so whilst they are very good cars, there is plenty to annoy for what BMW still try to term "The ultimate Driving Machine." They're good but not that good.
I always suggest people make their own minds up and use mag tests as a guide rather than the basis of truth.
You were doing okay until the tired Essex white cliche....I say this as someone who has driven and owned plenty of fast BMW's in the past. Having driven a friends 440i (GC in Essex boy white) recently, it was equally as annoying as my old F31 330d for having the TC light flickering away when you start to push on.
The steering is not great either, so whilst they are very good cars, there is plenty to annoy for what BMW still try to term "The ultimate Driving Machine." They're good but not that good.
I always suggest people make their own minds up and use mag tests as a guide rather than the basis of truth.
Haven't read the whole thread, and maybe this has been said. But, as many PHers on many threads have said, cars have got too large, too heavy, especially unsprung weight, and the tyres are just idiotic. It's car designers sketching pictures of the next prototype wearing 335/05R26 tyres. Now every bling obsessed ignoramus with a company car allowance burning a hole in his pocket is speccing his 3/4 series with ridiculous rims, and equally ridiculously small sidewalls. And, to accommodate this, manufacturers keep upping the wheel sizes with every new model update. Image over substance.
No wonder cars are getting worse and worse to drive. Have you ever noticed that many older driving enthusiasts end up with either a Caterham, Elise or Boxster/Cayman? With age comes wisdom.
No wonder cars are getting worse and worse to drive. Have you ever noticed that many older driving enthusiasts end up with either a Caterham, Elise or Boxster/Cayman? With age comes wisdom.
After_Shock said:
kambites said:
It's a Korean car. It would be a odd if it wasn't available in RHD.
For normal models yes, for a halo high performance petrol version not so, it has such limited sales and production appeal it wouldn't be a surprise if they didn't make it for this market.
You think they wouldn't make their halo model for their own domestic market? GTEYE said:
IforB said:
Like most BMW's, the 440i has a great engine, but BMW has really let itself down in the ride quality and especially in the non-fitment of an LSD and therefore an over-reliance on the stability and traction control software to keep things in line rather than mechanical means.
I say this as someone who has driven and owned plenty of fast BMW's in the past. Having driven a friends 440i (GC in Essex boy white) recently, it was equally as annoying as my old F31 330d for having the TC light flickering away when you start to push on.
The steering is not great either, so whilst they are very good cars, there is plenty to annoy for what BMW still try to term "The ultimate Driving Machine." They're good but not that good.
I always suggest people make their own minds up and use mag tests as a guide rather than the basis of truth.
You were doing okay until the tired Essex white cliche....I say this as someone who has driven and owned plenty of fast BMW's in the past. Having driven a friends 440i (GC in Essex boy white) recently, it was equally as annoying as my old F31 330d for having the TC light flickering away when you start to push on.
The steering is not great either, so whilst they are very good cars, there is plenty to annoy for what BMW still try to term "The ultimate Driving Machine." They're good but not that good.
I always suggest people make their own minds up and use mag tests as a guide rather than the basis of truth.
daveco said:
Mr2Mike said:
1780kg seems excessive, a touch more than a BMW 740Li. How did they pack in so much mass? Depleted uranium engine block?
big iron block engine, cheaper/older/heavier materials used t/out? You're right to question it; a 7 series is 17.5 foot long yet comes in lighter...
If the 7-series is lighter than the Kia, it would appear that it's probably also no heavier than the 4-series with the same engine, which would be odd.
Formidable effort from Kia. I won't hurt BMW sales, but an interesting effort to start dragging the brand upwards.
They have shot themselves in the foot thought with a list price of £40,450.... Knock £500 off and it's within the lower RFL bracket - big difference over the life of a vehicle.
Also OTT comments about the 440i above though. The 440i is not 'totally lacking' in steering feel, it is still a league ahead of most of it's contemporaries - Audi & BMW for example. It may not be the benchmark anymore, but it is still a phenomenal car - and with them b being available for well under £40k after discounts, it is still a performance bargain for the sector.
They have shot themselves in the foot thought with a list price of £40,450.... Knock £500 off and it's within the lower RFL bracket - big difference over the life of a vehicle.
Also OTT comments about the 440i above though. The 440i is not 'totally lacking' in steering feel, it is still a league ahead of most of it's contemporaries - Audi & BMW for example. It may not be the benchmark anymore, but it is still a phenomenal car - and with them b being available for well under £40k after discounts, it is still a performance bargain for the sector.
Tony33 said:
At least with the Stinger GT S, you know you aren't going to see a more expensive, faster KIA the next time you take it down the shops. A 440i MSport owner will always fear a full fat M is going to park up next to them!
...or maybe you'd feel worse? ...or maybe every time you parked next to a 440/S5/C43 you'd feel like you were in the runt of the segment?
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