RE: Singer and Williams unveil 500hp 964
Discussion
stevesingo said:
There is no doubt that the level of craftsmanship is beyond reproach but... I can't help but think that they have overegged the pudding with this.
When the whole ethos is a reimagining of the earlier style with a little more cherry on top, this seems to have a full pineapple on top.
500hp at 9k rpm is too much for such an era's style?
Overt carbon fibre as a decoration?
Those seats???
Those door cards???
The centre console???
Centre lock wheels in the fuch size, did that ever happen in the past.
They say they key to a good artist is that they no when to stop applying paint to the canvas.
Agreed except for the 500hp and centre locks but otherwise less is more. I hope they aren't on the same slippery slope as Pagani.When the whole ethos is a reimagining of the earlier style with a little more cherry on top, this seems to have a full pineapple on top.
500hp at 9k rpm is too much for such an era's style?
Overt carbon fibre as a decoration?
Those seats???
Those door cards???
The centre console???
Centre lock wheels in the fuch size, did that ever happen in the past.
They say they key to a good artist is that they no when to stop applying paint to the canvas.
AW10 said:
ChawenHalo said:
Singer have finally made a caricature of the 911. That's one step too far IMO.
+911I liked their earlier, more modest creations rather better. 500bhp=huge tyres=huges arches=width=loss of the essence (and useability) of the 964.
...but of course I'm in a tiny (and completely academic, since they will sell everything they ever make) minority, I realise, and it is beautifully detailed.
Will always be a Porsche aircooled purist. The pre 73 looks are still the most stylish. Porsche's classic division already supply most of the parts for the classics. Why cant they do a retake on the pre 73 models with interchangeable body parts like rear wings, lightweight parts, etc, keep it simple so the enthusist can work on it, aircooled, flat six 2 liter upto 350hp, under a 1000kg for 50k-80k. Bet their classic division would sell more cars than their modern division. Will not buy another Porsche until its aircooled and reasonably priced, dont care if its not the fastest car on the road as long as its the fastest 2 liter or whatever capacity they use to get 350hp with 6 cylinders.
Bbqdude said:
Will always be a Porsche aircooled purist. The pre 73 looks are still the most stylish. Porsche's classic division already supply most of the parts for the classics. Why cant they do a retake on the pre 73 models with interchangeable body parts like rear wings, lightweight parts, etc, keep it simple so the enthusist can work on it, aircooled, flat six 2 liter upto 350hp, under a 1000kg for 50k-80k. Bet their classic division would sell more cars than their modern division. Will not buy another Porsche until its aircooled and reasonably priced, dont care if its not the fastest car on the road as long as its the fastest 2 liter or whatever capacity they use to get 350hp with 6 cylinders.
Great idea but I reckon financially, it will not work. I doubt many people actually want to buy something which look already old before leaving the showroom.
E34-3.2 said:
Bbqdude said:
Will always be a Porsche aircooled purist. The pre 73 looks are still the most stylish. Porsche's classic division already supply most of the parts for the classics. Why cant they do a retake on the pre 73 models with interchangeable body parts like rear wings, lightweight parts, etc, keep it simple so the enthusist can work on it, aircooled, flat six 2 liter upto 350hp, under a 1000kg for 50k-80k. Bet their classic division would sell more cars than their modern division. Will not buy another Porsche until its aircooled and reasonably priced, dont care if its not the fastest car on the road as long as its the fastest 2 liter or whatever capacity they use to get 350hp with 6 cylinders.
Great idea but I reckon financially, it will not work. I doubt many people actually want to buy something which look already old before leaving the showroom.
...so you couldn't have anything close to an aircooled classic-shape 911 as legislation wouldn't permit it.
havoc said:
It's not that, it's that any real volumes of 'reimagined classics' will have to comply with current crash and emissions regs...
...so you couldn't have anything close to an aircooled classic-shape 911 as legislation wouldn't permit it.
If RUF can sell their SCR 4.2 under the strict TUV rules I don't see why not, although I agree it's never going to happen....so you couldn't have anything close to an aircooled classic-shape 911 as legislation wouldn't permit it.
havoc said:
E34-3.2 said:
Bbqdude said:
Will always be a Porsche aircooled purist. The pre 73 looks are still the most stylish. Porsche's classic division already supply most of the parts for the classics. Why cant they do a retake on the pre 73 models with interchangeable body parts like rear wings, lightweight parts, etc, keep it simple so the enthusist can work on it, aircooled, flat six 2 liter upto 350hp, under a 1000kg for 50k-80k. Bet their classic division would sell more cars than their modern division. Will not buy another Porsche until its aircooled and reasonably priced, dont care if its not the fastest car on the road as long as its the fastest 2 liter or whatever capacity they use to get 350hp with 6 cylinders.
Great idea but I reckon financially, it will not work. I doubt many people actually want to buy something which look already old before leaving the showroom.
...so you couldn't have anything close to an aircooled classic-shape 911 as legislation wouldn't permit it.
The only way that singer and others get round this is by using existing vehicles, and "restoring" them, thereby complying with the regulations at the time of original build.
Either way, in what sense do you think a company could produce such a vehicle for that money in this day and age? 50-80k is very low, and you would have to approach this on an economies of scale for supply of new parts and components, so you would probably have to churn out a minumum of 5000-10000 of these every year to make any sort of margin, and then suddenly they become a lot less desirable.
Reminds me of the comments that always surface on Lotus threads, of why can the new elise be 600kg, naturally aspirated 4 pot with 400bhp, and cost 27p.
I think people seem to be overlooking the commission basis of their business model, people have been ordering these a lot lately. The need for a 'one off' commission that you can personalise and own a custom based Porsche, seems to be in demand. If I recall, the guy that ordered this commission owns a few other Singers also, if the customer desires it and is willing to pay for it, they will build it, the only limit is your wallet.
Not my choice of colour, looks aggressive, I would settle for a regular Singer commission if I was dropping $400k to $500k on one, which I'm not.
Horses for courses and all that, if you don't like it, don't buy one.
Not my choice of colour, looks aggressive, I would settle for a regular Singer commission if I was dropping $400k to $500k on one, which I'm not.
Horses for courses and all that, if you don't like it, don't buy one.
Just thinking of other classic 911s. That "probably" cost less than a Singer commission
2.7 RS Lightweight
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
964 Turbo
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
964RS
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I do love the Singers. Though I suppose those who spec their car already have other classic air cooled in the barn.
2.7 RS Lightweight
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
964 Turbo
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
964RS
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I do love the Singers. Though I suppose those who spec their car already have other classic air cooled in the barn.
mat205125 said:
Uppercut said:
It's all in response to customer demand. They are a bespoke company. They will sell every single one.
..... and every single one will commend a premium if offered for sale or auction second hand.
Maxige said:
MDL111 said:
I wonder if you can now order a normal Singer built in the U.K. - that would probably be quite a demand driver for Europe (well until Brexit is done anyway)
"Regular" cars will always be produced in California. Numbers are so small that it doesn't make sense to have another production line in Europe...it'll make things easier for sure!
Edited by sisu on Friday 17th November 08:00
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