Rip off garages alive and well.
Discussion
Going back to the OP I do recall being booked in to replace a driveshaft on some sort of Toyota and I recall the shaft being absolute stupid money. Something around 600 quid if I recall correctly.
It wasn't the shaft it was the gearbox but I phoned around everyone to get a cheaper shaft but no go.
Assuming eBay will have something but we can't really rely on eBay as a garage.
It wasn't the shaft it was the gearbox but I phoned around everyone to get a cheaper shaft but no go.
Assuming eBay will have something but we can't really rely on eBay as a garage.
dme123 said:
Most of the people posting crap on this thread are clearly wage slaves who have not the slightest conception of what is involved in running a sustainable and profitable business. They are the sort of people who are genuinely outraged that when they bring their own tea bag to a cafe they get charged almost exactly the same for a mug of hot water as for an actual mug of tea.
Oh p
s off, they don't charge to heat up water in cafes do they?? There's another scam 
Maz_uk said:
Some of the absolute **** on this thread is comical!
Background, I’m a car dealer, with a specialist workshop and bodyshop, are we cheap? Absolutely not.
We get quite a bit of work from other dealers in our area, simply due to the fact that we have a lot of experience with certain brands and models.
I’ve spent over £20k this year on the latest and greatest diagnostic equipment and software updates for said equipment, the latest remapping equipment, R1234YF air con machine, we do a better job than bob the knob down the road who is still using the same diagnostic equipment from 10 years ago, using the old Autodata his mate gave him a copy of and the wrong grade of oil because it’s cheaper.
Why should we be cheap? We continually invest in new equipment and training, we’re very rarely wrong, and we do a bloody good job.
If you can’t see the value in that, then go somewhere else where the work / advice may be cheap but never forget you get what you pay for
Out of interest, how much for an R1234yf recharge? Prices seem all over the place. I was stung for ~£300 a couple of years back, but prices seem to have reduced a fair bit now (local dealer down to £99).Background, I’m a car dealer, with a specialist workshop and bodyshop, are we cheap? Absolutely not.
We get quite a bit of work from other dealers in our area, simply due to the fact that we have a lot of experience with certain brands and models.
I’ve spent over £20k this year on the latest and greatest diagnostic equipment and software updates for said equipment, the latest remapping equipment, R1234YF air con machine, we do a better job than bob the knob down the road who is still using the same diagnostic equipment from 10 years ago, using the old Autodata his mate gave him a copy of and the wrong grade of oil because it’s cheaper.
Why should we be cheap? We continually invest in new equipment and training, we’re very rarely wrong, and we do a bloody good job.
If you can’t see the value in that, then go somewhere else where the work / advice may be cheap but never forget you get what you pay for
I've resisted commenting on this thread till now,
Shuvi McTupya said:
Maz,
Do you do any of the following?
Bullst the customer into having totally unnecessary work done.
What do you deem as totally unnecessary? What you may perceive as the customer as bull maybe seen by the garage as essential, exceptions of course do apply.Do you do any of the following?
Bulls
t the customer into having totally unnecessary work done.Shuvi McTupya said:
Charge £500 to the customer for a part that costs you a quick phone call and £75 for your supplier to send it over to you?
Your example is a little extreme and if that is the case then it's certainly an unfair price, however even making phone calls to suppliers takes time which equals cost do you honestly expect the garage to absorb this cost? Shuvi McTupya said:
Charge £80 just to plug in your machine and read a code using no skill at all?
Again your not paying for the equipment your paying for that persons time, the diagnostic kit is a tool to perform a task it's the operator that interprets this data and hands you a diagnosis. Granted a basic fault read will indicate an immediate prognosis in the majority of cases and there in should be priced as such, however a basic fault read doesn't always give the answer to the problem just evidence to be taken in consideration to the final diagnosis.The last two visits to a garage was for a Volvo XC90 Alternator and the price they quoted me for the Alternator over the phone actually ended up being about £50 less. The other Garage I use is incredibly helpful and reasonable. I have used 4 local garages over the years all have been more than helpful and reasonably priced.
My neighbour (elderly) took his Peugeot 3008 to have his battery checked and replaced and they charged him £44 for checking the battery before hitting him with another £90 for a battery.
Get a good local Garage and treat him as your friend it pays dividends in the end.
My neighbour (elderly) took his Peugeot 3008 to have his battery checked and replaced and they charged him £44 for checking the battery before hitting him with another £90 for a battery.
Get a good local Garage and treat him as your friend it pays dividends in the end.
ijd said:
I think it was one of the early Fiestas that a friend's sister had, the rear windscreen wiper stopped working. Garage said this was a known fault, the fix was to replace the spark plugs...
Friend (electronics engineer) goes steaming down the the garage raving about ripping people off with bullsh*t, especially women.
Mechanic shows him the service bulletin, explaining that when the spark plugs get worn the engine management system turns up the juice to them which creates more electrical interference, and the first result is that the rear wiper (the furthest away item on the CAN bus with the weakest signal) stops working due to interference disrupting the CAN bus data.
Spark plugs are changed, rear wiper now works.
Apparently this problem was never found during pre-production testing, and only emerged when customers found it -- and I bet most of them had the same reaction when told what the fix was, especially if they had never heard of a CAN bus...
Problem was fixed with later models by better CAN bus shielding, but I bet the guy who first diagnosed the problem had a good laugh :-)
This one intrigued me. I checked all the Fiesta TSBs from 1996-2017 and found nothing. Friend (electronics engineer) goes steaming down the the garage raving about ripping people off with bullsh*t, especially women.
Mechanic shows him the service bulletin, explaining that when the spark plugs get worn the engine management system turns up the juice to them which creates more electrical interference, and the first result is that the rear wiper (the furthest away item on the CAN bus with the weakest signal) stops working due to interference disrupting the CAN bus data.
Spark plugs are changed, rear wiper now works.
Apparently this problem was never found during pre-production testing, and only emerged when customers found it -- and I bet most of them had the same reaction when told what the fix was, especially if they had never heard of a CAN bus...
Problem was fixed with later models by better CAN bus shielding, but I bet the guy who first diagnosed the problem had a good laugh :-)
Edited by ijd on Sunday 19th November 18:56
Maz_uk said:
Some of the absolute **** on this thread is comical!
Background, I’m a car dealer, with a specialist workshop and bodyshop, are we cheap? Absolutely not.
We get quite a bit of work from other dealers in our area, simply due to the fact that we have a lot of experience with certain brands and models.
I’ve spent over £20k this year on the latest and greatest diagnostic equipment and software updates for said equipment, the latest remapping equipment, R1234YF air con machine, we do a better job than bob the knob down the road who is still using the same diagnostic equipment from 10 years ago, using the old Autodata his mate gave him a copy of and the wrong grade of oil because it’s cheaper.
Why should we be cheap? We continually invest in new equipment and training, we’re very rarely wrong, and we do a bloody good job.
If you can’t see the value in that, then go somewhere else where the work / advice may be cheap but never forget you get what you pay for
What remapping tool do you use? And do you write your own files or are you an agent . Background, I’m a car dealer, with a specialist workshop and bodyshop, are we cheap? Absolutely not.
We get quite a bit of work from other dealers in our area, simply due to the fact that we have a lot of experience with certain brands and models.
I’ve spent over £20k this year on the latest and greatest diagnostic equipment and software updates for said equipment, the latest remapping equipment, R1234YF air con machine, we do a better job than bob the knob down the road who is still using the same diagnostic equipment from 10 years ago, using the old Autodata his mate gave him a copy of and the wrong grade of oil because it’s cheaper.
Why should we be cheap? We continually invest in new equipment and training, we’re very rarely wrong, and we do a bloody good job.
If you can’t see the value in that, then go somewhere else where the work / advice may be cheap but never forget you get what you pay for
Josho said:
Going back to the OP I do recall being booked in to replace a driveshaft on some sort of Toyota and I recall the shaft being absolute stupid money. Something around 600 quid if I recall correctly.
It wasn't the shaft it was the gearbox but I phoned around everyone to get a cheaper shaft but no go.
Assuming eBay will have something but we can't really rely on eBay as a garage.
Even if we assume that the shaft for my Friend's car was £600, the garage were still charging the best part of £300 to fit it. There were many places selling the shaft for less than £200, Euro Car Parts were less than £100.It wasn't the shaft it was the gearbox but I phoned around everyone to get a cheaper shaft but no go.
Assuming eBay will have something but we can't really rely on eBay as a garage.
I bought the part from Ebay, but that was only an additional outlet for an on line parts supplier.
Tim
dme123 said:
Most of the people posting crap on this thread are clearly wage slaves who have not the slightest conception of what is involved in running a sustainable and profitable business. They are the sort of people who are genuinely outraged that when they bring their own tea bag to a cafe they get charged almost exactly the same for a mug of hot water as for an actual mug of tea.
Oh ps off, they don't charge to heat up water in cafes do they?? There's another scam There is one massive disconnect on this thread so far -
We generally only fit parts we supply. One of the main reasons was that prior to doing so, the sheer number of times that the customer would turn up with the wrong part was just amazing. Even quite recently, one of my very best friends, a chap who is very knowledgeable about cars, turned up with the wrong serpentine belt for his car, meaning that the bay we'd set aside for him had to be kept for longer.
Overall this was resulting in a loss of time for us and a waste of money for customers, so we introduced a policy of only fitting parts we supply (within reason, we've just allowed a customer to supply us with a used abs pump as the original is so expensive) and I can't see that it's harmed us in any way.
So far on this thread, as far as I can see, nobody has admitted to supplying his garage with the wrong part, indeed IIRC one poster has stated he's supplied lots of parts without any issues.
The supply of parts is one of our biggest expenditure of time.
So for some reason, people such as ourselves who are working on cars all day and every day, year after year, using the parts suppliers who obviously have prodigious logistical systems geared to supplying massive numbers of parts to the garage trade on a daily basis, can not match what the private owner can do using ebay.
I am struggling to accept this.
We generally only fit parts we supply. One of the main reasons was that prior to doing so, the sheer number of times that the customer would turn up with the wrong part was just amazing. Even quite recently, one of my very best friends, a chap who is very knowledgeable about cars, turned up with the wrong serpentine belt for his car, meaning that the bay we'd set aside for him had to be kept for longer.
Overall this was resulting in a loss of time for us and a waste of money for customers, so we introduced a policy of only fitting parts we supply (within reason, we've just allowed a customer to supply us with a used abs pump as the original is so expensive) and I can't see that it's harmed us in any way.
So far on this thread, as far as I can see, nobody has admitted to supplying his garage with the wrong part, indeed IIRC one poster has stated he's supplied lots of parts without any issues.
The supply of parts is one of our biggest expenditure of time.
So for some reason, people such as ourselves who are working on cars all day and every day, year after year, using the parts suppliers who obviously have prodigious logistical systems geared to supplying massive numbers of parts to the garage trade on a daily basis, can not match what the private owner can do using ebay.
I am struggling to accept this.
chryslerben said:
I've resisted commenting on this thread till now,
Sorry I can't handle all that formatting..Shuvi McTupya said:
Maz,
Do you do any of the following?
Bullst the customer into having totally unnecessary work done.
What do you deem as totally unnecessary? What you may perceive as the customer as bull maybe seen by the garage as essential, exceptions of course do apply.Do you do any of the following?
Bulls
t the customer into having totally unnecessary work done.Shuvi McTupya said:
Charge £500 to the customer for a part that costs you a quick phone call and £75 for your supplier to send it over to you?
Your example is a little extreme and if that is the case then it's certainly an unfair price, however even making phone calls to suppliers takes time which equals cost do you honestly expect the garage to absorb this cost? Shuvi McTupya said:
Charge £80 just to plug in your machine and read a code using no skill at all?
Again your not paying for the equipment your paying for that persons time, the diagnostic kit is a tool to perform a task it's the operator that interprets this data and hands you a diagnosis. Granted a basic fault read will indicate an immediate prognosis in the majority of cases and there in should be priced as such, however a basic fault read doesn't always give the answer to the problem just evidence to be taken in consideration to the final diagnosis.What do I consider unnecessary? There are plenty of examples just in this thread about mechanics trying to charge for things that are not required.
I have had a few experiences , the worst was taking my old jag to a chain establishment that you can't get quicker than. The 'mechanic ' had the car up on ramps and was beating the hell out of one of my exhaust boxes with a rubber mallet until he got some rust to actually make some noise and was telling me I needed a whole new exhaust system. As you can imagine, on a V12 Jag that is not cheap. I drove the car for a few years after that and never had any issues with the exhaust.
We have covered the diagnostic thing, and I accept that the garage is being fleeced and the kit is ridiculously over priced. And I accept that it is a necessary tool but I a lot of cases the customer is paying to have known design faults cleared that could be done for free by a complete idiot like me with a £10 tool from eBay.
But it's bread and butter for the garage, and a total scam, in my opinion.
Edited by Shuvi McTupya on Tuesday 21st November 18:10
heebeegeetee said:
The supply of parts is one of our biggest expenditure of time.
So for some reason, people such as ourselves who are working on cars all day and every day, year after year, using the parts suppliers who obviously have prodigious logistical systems geared to supplying massive numbers of parts to the garage trade on a daily basis, can not match what the private owner can do using ebay.
I am struggling to accept this.
It takes you longer to order a part than to fit it?? I have to say that doesn't sound very likely to me, but I am not a mechanic.So for some reason, people such as ourselves who are working on cars all day and every day, year after year, using the parts suppliers who obviously have prodigious logistical systems geared to supplying massive numbers of parts to the garage trade on a daily basis, can not match what the private owner can do using ebay.
I am struggling to accept this.
Added: I just re-read what you wrote and now realise it is ONE of your biggest expenditures of time, not the biggest.
But surely everything you do is ONE of the biggest expenditures of your time, even making a cuppa!
Most parts are fairly standard, so far I have not ordered the wrong thing but I have been sent the wrong thing. When I buy a replacement clutch or something like that I would pop down to the garage with it a few days before my appointment so they can check it is going to work.
Edited by Shuvi McTupya on Tuesday 21st November 18:17
heebeegeetee said:
There is one massive disconnect on this thread so far -
We generally only fit parts we supply. One of the main reasons was that prior to doing so, the sheer number of times that the customer would turn up with the wrong part was just amazing. Even quite recently, one of my very best friends, a chap who is very knowledgeable about cars, turned up with the wrong serpentine belt for his car, meaning that the bay we'd set aside for him had to be kept for longer.
Overall this was resulting in a loss of time for us and a waste of money for customers, so we introduced a policy of only fitting parts we supply (within reason, we've just allowed a customer to supply us with a used abs pump as the original is so expensive) and I can't see that it's harmed us in any way.
So far on this thread, as far as I can see, nobody has admitted to supplying his garage with the wrong part, indeed IIRC one poster has stated he's supplied lots of parts without any issues.
The supply of parts is one of our biggest expenditure of time.
So for some reason, people such as ourselves who are working on cars all day and every day, year after year, using the parts suppliers who obviously have prodigious logistical systems geared to supplying massive numbers of parts to the garage trade on a daily basis, can not match what the private owner can do using ebay.
I am struggling to accept this.
I have to be honest here, I have a lot of friends who own their own garagesWe generally only fit parts we supply. One of the main reasons was that prior to doing so, the sheer number of times that the customer would turn up with the wrong part was just amazing. Even quite recently, one of my very best friends, a chap who is very knowledgeable about cars, turned up with the wrong serpentine belt for his car, meaning that the bay we'd set aside for him had to be kept for longer.
Overall this was resulting in a loss of time for us and a waste of money for customers, so we introduced a policy of only fitting parts we supply (within reason, we've just allowed a customer to supply us with a used abs pump as the original is so expensive) and I can't see that it's harmed us in any way.
So far on this thread, as far as I can see, nobody has admitted to supplying his garage with the wrong part, indeed IIRC one poster has stated he's supplied lots of parts without any issues.
The supply of parts is one of our biggest expenditure of time.
So for some reason, people such as ourselves who are working on cars all day and every day, year after year, using the parts suppliers who obviously have prodigious logistical systems geared to supplying massive numbers of parts to the garage trade on a daily basis, can not match what the private owner can do using ebay.
I am struggling to accept this.
So I do fully understand the pain.
I couldn't imagine having to do it on such a huge scale.
BUT most garages have an account with Euro car parts, TPS or whatever brand of parts you need.
You know what cars are coming in with a few days notice at least in most cases and for what jobs. Most of them are normal jobs. Oil and filter, brake pad change, cambelt etc.
So you can order said parts that are delivered to you and you are invoiced XX days later. If there are multiple options of the part then all options are sent and returned unused if need be.
Most of which can be sorted in a phone call or two and 10 minutes tops.
Many parts are also available same day delivered if something just "pops in".
Most things I will source myself except specialist parts.
A classic example of this over changing is oil.
Dealers will charge you £75 for 4.5L oil which you can buy 5L off the shelf for £35 without even getting into the "nitty gritty" that is discount codes.
Not forgetting the dealer generally buy a 200L+ drum(s) at a marked down price anyway.
Off the net as a regular punter I can buy 208L of quality Mobil 1 meeting VAG 507.00 for £1313. This is £6.31 / L .
1L is £9.95 , 5L is £34.99
I'm sure if I was going through 200L per week it could be discounted. Quantum oil is even cheaper.
Same goes for springs, brake pads, etc etc.
Larger indys and main dealer garagesusually whacks a hefty surcharge over the EXACT same part available on Ebay or from Euros (OE not cheap aftermarket tat)
So why are people being charged effectively double in some cases more for oil (for example) when in for servicing,when in reality it's a contract where a new drum gets delivered every month or whatever and the old stuff taken away? It's hardly a labour or cost intensive job.
Regarding the supply of parts
I can honestly say that I have never personally supplied a wrong part to any of my friends doing work on my car.
I have supplied a poor quality part that my mate refused to fit once. So I bought a genuine part (happened to be a CV boot).
Other times I have been able to find parts cheaper myself (via Euro car parts with discount code for example) but have chosen to spend £15 extra to buy them through my friends business who fits said parts purely for a warranty purpose.
£15 is fine, £60 for example is not.
Many garages even smaller independents often have a receptionist or an apprentice doing the meet + greet of customers / reception and also ordering parts. For the £15k a year they get paid it's not a big outgoing to hire someone for this job at a worst case?
Please do tell me if I am massively wide of the mark as I have little first hand experience and only what I have seen / heard myself via second hand and hanging around garages etc.
I don't understand. if you don't want to pay £100 / hr or £75 / l of oil the don't, they aren't forcing you (of course they'll will try to persuade you with warranty etc).
Go to a smaller garage or do it yourself.
It's not a rip off, it's just their business model. A lot of people will happily pay as it's nice clean environment with coffee, wi-fi, etc.
Off course doing work that isn't necessary is a rip of and is out of order.
Go to a smaller garage or do it yourself.
It's not a rip off, it's just their business model. A lot of people will happily pay as it's nice clean environment with coffee, wi-fi, etc.
Off course doing work that isn't necessary is a rip of and is out of order.
I supply my own parts a lot of the time and its a right fk up normally.
Bought some camber adjustment bolts for my Fiesta ST and my local indie friend spent a while faffing and wanted to throw them in the bin but a good laugh and a few cups of tea later it was sorted.
I prefer them to supply the parts as I know they dont take the piss but a lot of the time it is me turning up with random stuff I want fitting that can only be purchased from specialists especially my vw camper.
Best was when Euro gave me 500 quids worth of porsche 911 clutch instead of my 70 quid 1986 diesel camper clutch. Kept their bay for a day but sold the clutch on ebay and made a chunk of money on it and everyone was happy in the end.
k up normally.Bought some camber adjustment bolts for my Fiesta ST and my local indie friend spent a while faffing and wanted to throw them in the bin but a good laugh and a few cups of tea later it was sorted.
I prefer them to supply the parts as I know they dont take the piss but a lot of the time it is me turning up with random stuff I want fitting that can only be purchased from specialists especially my vw camper.
Best was when Euro gave me 500 quids worth of porsche 911 clutch instead of my 70 quid 1986 diesel camper clutch. Kept their bay for a day but sold the clutch on ebay and made a chunk of money on it and everyone was happy in the end.
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