RE: The best (and worst) gearbox in the world
Discussion
I have been driven in a CVT Levorg and it felt perfectly acceptable to me. The sensations took a little bit to acclimatise but thats no real hurdle.
Being as my daily at the moment is a WRX STI, I would really fancy having a CVT Levorg second car to crush up and down the motorway. Yes its not as sporting or dynamic, but for comfortably getting to and from work with minimal fuss and the daily traffic rituals CVT seems like the one.
Being as my daily at the moment is a WRX STI, I would really fancy having a CVT Levorg second car to crush up and down the motorway. Yes its not as sporting or dynamic, but for comfortably getting to and from work with minimal fuss and the daily traffic rituals CVT seems like the one.
BFleming said:
CDP said:
I wonder what the probability of trouble on the Audi CVT is? I've heard horror stories but don't know if it's common or just very loud complaints.
A friend got an A6 Multitronic back in 2012 and 3 months later it was back at the dealer with a vibration problem. They gave it back to him, he gave it back to them etc etc. This continued for the short life of the car - they couldn't fix the box, so replaced it - then that broke too.I'm sure someone from the motor trade will chip in about how truly bad they are when they break, and someone in sales will say they are worth significantly less & take longer to shift than a manual equivalent.
All the horror stories aside, in 2008 a good friend showed me his new car, an Audi A6 2.7 with the Multitronic box. I sucked through my teeth when he told me it wasn't the Quattro (which has a conventional auto), but in 9 years nothing has gone wrong with the gearbox. For all the bad ones which people moan about, I guess there's a reason somewhere Audi persists building them!
http://www.autonews.com/article/20131004/RETAIL05/...
It isn't clear if it was an inherent design fault or a manufacturing defect or if this issue only affected US cars. Obviously it isnt representative of all CVT transmissions, after all it cannot be beyond the wit of man to devise a belt reliable enough to push a car along.
All I can say is that my own experience of an Audi CVT was very good. We had an '06 A4 avant 2.0tdi with CVT that suited the car in SE specification with nice soft suspension very well as a family hack. It worked perfectly the whole time we owned it and was still working perfectly when we sold it at 9 years old with 120,000 miles on it.
BuzzBravado said:
The CVT in the Jazz universally panned as well. I have a friend at Honda who admitted it was a terrible move, they just couldn't sell them at all. My only personal experience of CVT was the Prius and i hated every second.
Prius one might not be good to drive but it doesn't just disintegrate like the VAG one.I've driven a GS450h and it felt much like a normal old-style auto box. Nothing particularly good or bad about it.
Our Koleos has a CVT and I think an obvious trick has been missed. I reckon in diff lock AWD mode - which works at up to 30km/h - switching to manual control should unlock a super low range set of ratios. They could have programmed a whole bunch of rock crawling gears that a traditional low-range couldn’t dream of.
Cheapskate said:
Our Koleos has a CVT and I think an obvious trick has been missed. I reckon in diff lock AWD mode - which works at up to 30km/h - switching to manual control should unlock a super low range set of ratios. They could have programmed a whole bunch of rock crawling gears that a traditional low-range couldn’t dream of.
I don't think anyone has taken a Koleos off road in any serious manner 
Well, for what it's worth, even though my neighbour's A4 went bang expensively 7 years ago, I've checked and it's still on the road, so either the subsequent owner(s) has/have spent ludicrous amounts of money on it, or the replacement 'box has proved reliable.
I like a good manual, but I do enjoy a good slushmatic too. The ZF 5HP24 in my V8 E39s is a lovely thing, especially in Steptronic manual override, and the one in the newer of the two is adaptive and so tends to be in the right gear almost all the time. Would I choose a CVT over that or any newer comparable autobox (e.g. ZF 6HP, 8HP, M-B 5G- or 7G-Tronic)? Not a chance.
I like a good manual, but I do enjoy a good slushmatic too. The ZF 5HP24 in my V8 E39s is a lovely thing, especially in Steptronic manual override, and the one in the newer of the two is adaptive and so tends to be in the right gear almost all the time. Would I choose a CVT over that or any newer comparable autobox (e.g. ZF 6HP, 8HP, M-B 5G- or 7G-Tronic)? Not a chance.
xjay1337 said:
Cheapskate said:
Our Koleos has a CVT and I think an obvious trick has been missed. I reckon in diff lock AWD mode - which works at up to 30km/h - switching to manual control should unlock a super low range set of ratios. They could have programmed a whole bunch of rock crawling gears that a traditional low-range couldn’t dream of.
I don't think anyone has taken a Koleos off road in any serious manner I loved the multitronic box in my B5 A4 1.9tdi, right up until the ECU failed (dreaded flashing PRNDS) and cost me £900 to be replaced by an independent specialist. To be fair though that happened at over 100k miles and a manual may have needed a clutch change at similar cost by then.
It does feel weird at first and perhaps isn't suited to progressive driving as others have said, but I did like the way it would pin the revs at 4000 and accelerate (fairly well) when you planted it. Felt a bit like a jet plane accelerating for take off- kind of
It does feel weird at first and perhaps isn't suited to progressive driving as others have said, but I did like the way it would pin the revs at 4000 and accelerate (fairly well) when you planted it. Felt a bit like a jet plane accelerating for take off- kind of
tgx said:
To my knowledge the CVT is what sidelines a lot of Mini Coopers.
The belts just cannot cope and burn out well before a standard clutch job
would be required.
Good point. I've heard that the transmission fluid change on a CVT transmission is eye-wateringly expensive. OK, if you're buying new and keeping it for three years but something to consider if you're buying at 5+ years.The belts just cannot cope and burn out well before a standard clutch job
would be required.
Only ever driven one and it was by far the worst vehicle I have driven in a long long time. I don't completely blame the CVT, I am sure mated with a low revving high torque diesel they may work well. The car I had to suffer was a Juke petrol.
The slightest attempt to get forward motion sent the engine screaming and you still only got glacial acceleration, but with added ear ache. As soon as you lifted off it would drop the revs right down until you needed a bit of power again when it would red line. Driving down the M way meant it was constantly going from low revs to red lining at the slightest throttle adjustment. Even when it did red line the acceleration was dire and the MPG even worse. I seem to remember getting low to mid 20's out of this thing and having to be forever in the petrol station. I hope this was just a really bad combination of low torque high revving small petrol engine, poor sound proofing, overly heavy pointless vehicle and bad calibration. I'll be sticking to either a manual or traditional slush box thanks.
The slightest attempt to get forward motion sent the engine screaming and you still only got glacial acceleration, but with added ear ache. As soon as you lifted off it would drop the revs right down until you needed a bit of power again when it would red line. Driving down the M way meant it was constantly going from low revs to red lining at the slightest throttle adjustment. Even when it did red line the acceleration was dire and the MPG even worse. I seem to remember getting low to mid 20's out of this thing and having to be forever in the petrol station. I hope this was just a really bad combination of low torque high revving small petrol engine, poor sound proofing, overly heavy pointless vehicle and bad calibration. I'll be sticking to either a manual or traditional slush box thanks.
This is a great topic for PH. Attractive in terms of inbound traffic and search ranking (if we think for a moment like a PH publisher).
And also attractive for anybody who wants to learn more about a curious topic (such as the CVT and the functionality of transmissions in general). Lots of illuminating posts in this thread. Great "crowd" content. Lots to learn.
BuzzBravado said:
The CVT in the Jazz universally panned as well. I have a friend at Honda who admitted it was a terrible move, they just couldn't sell them at all. My only personal experience of CVT was the Prius and i hated every second.
I have the Honda CVT in my Jazz Hybrid and I love it. It has a few quirks that could be better though. My biggest irritation is the throttle opening from standstill. A CVT doesn't 'creep' by impulse like a torque converter, they open the throttle slightly and drive themselves at low speeds. However, the ECU seeks to minimise and slow throttle opening at low speeds for emissions purposes. It can be a bit jerky pulling away sometimes if you're not smooth and consistent with the throttle. You can usually predict the situations in which this will occur and it's like there is a fight between your input and what the car wants to do. As mentioned earlier, reversing up a steep hill requires a steady foot as the ECU struggles to meter out drive at a low throttle opening.
On the plus side, it works brilliantly for day to day use. It seemlessly integrates drive from the electric motor when it's needed and phasing from purely electric drive to petrol power is very smooth. It certainly works to get the most from the wheezing little 1.3 engine, and performance is quite spritely up to 60mph because it never pauses to change gear. It's never revving towards that sweet spot of peak power, it just dials up an RPM and sits there until you lighten the throttle pressure to settle into a cruise.
At 70mph, load depending, it'll settle down to 2000rpm or less, which is an impressively low and refined number for a small petrol. However, the economy drops off over 70mph in line with the performance (a cruise at 90mph returns only 40mpg on average). It does have seven 'gears' accessible by shifter paddles on the steering wheel, although it'll revert back to CVT quickly unless you keep tapping up and down the ratios using the paddles. I never use them, even when driving on B roads. They don't really serve a purpose other than give the car a familiar mode to those who find the CVT alien.
For a small car like mine where economy is the goal, then a CVT really trumps a torque converter. In bigger cars, I'd prefer a torque converter or DCT, unless we're talking about the superb CVT that the top end Lexus models use.
stevesingo said:
I'll just leave this here... https://youtu.be/x3UpBKXMRto?t=42
That's what I was going to post. From what I was told the testing was very positive, but it was banned before it could be fully developed. Apparently the locals around Abingdon were bemused by the sound, as you would be, despite being used to hearing Williams running up and down the runway quite regularly.Perfect timing (sorry!) for me, as I'm trying to choose between two cars both of which have cvt.
But neither of them are Petrolhead cars. In my advancing years, comfort and ease are important.
the cars? Original Smart Forfour, or Nissan Cube (last version)
I was put of a little by on-line stories of fragility and expense of fixing, but then, one sees cars with 6 figure miles.
But neither of them are Petrolhead cars. In my advancing years, comfort and ease are important.
the cars? Original Smart Forfour, or Nissan Cube (last version)
I was put of a little by on-line stories of fragility and expense of fixing, but then, one sees cars with 6 figure miles.
Ocellia said:
Perfect timing (sorry!) for me, as I'm trying to choose between two cars both of which have cvt.
But neither of them are Petrolhead cars. In my advancing years, comfort and ease are important.
the cars? Original Smart Forfour, or Nissan Cube (last version)
I was put of a little by on-line stories of fragility and expense of fixing, but then, one sees cars with 6 figure miles.
The original Smart ForFour comes with either a five speed manual or a six speed robotised manual transmission, I don't think there was ever a CVT option.But neither of them are Petrolhead cars. In my advancing years, comfort and ease are important.
the cars? Original Smart Forfour, or Nissan Cube (last version)
I was put of a little by on-line stories of fragility and expense of fixing, but then, one sees cars with 6 figure miles.
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