RE: ?100K Escort RS2000!

[treetops]

The government is already eyeing up CGT on cars of a certain age.

Too many people making too much money from one of the few assets that doesn't attract a sales tax.

This will put the brakes on things.

[aaron_2000]

LewisR said:

I was merely placing the two common statements to the two cars (924 & 944).

However, van engines generally tend to be lower power, higher toque units with less regard for a hogh red line, refinement and throttle response, exactly what you don't want in a sports car.

That aside...
This RS2000 or a mint Bentley Turbo R + £85k ??

Why not compare two cars that are even close to similar? RS2000 or a flat? RS2000 or 10 Dacia Dusters? RS2000 or 100000 orders of fries at McDonalds? You think the guy buying this RS2000 is gonna drive it, or be the least bit interested in an old money pit Bentley? The kind of guy that's interested in a £100k RS2000 probably doesn't know/care what it costs, this thing is destined for a collection. So it's either this or something else of the same nature.

[br1anuk]

There was a lad who lived by me who bought a brand new old stock RS2000, it had been a show car in a local dealer and it was registered on a C plate so about 1984/85? He only had it two months and it was stolen from his driveway and never seen again.

I owned three Fiat Mirafioris Sports, a much better car in my opinion.

Brian

[DuncGTS]

Crazy prices still but
Escort cosworth at first didn't sell as the hammer fell at £81k plus fees and the auction house gave the needed £4k from it fees so it would make it's reserve
The RS 2000 also sold for a lot less than was expected at £87 k plus fees and so did the RS 500 at £100k
All I cars I saw go throw the action were struggling to get to the asking price and quite a few didn't sell, maybe the prices put on the cars was a tad high or maybe buyers are getting a bit more careful in the wallet area

[Willhire89]

treetops said:

The government is already eyeing up CGT on cars of a certain age.

Too many people making too much money from one of the few assets that doesn't attract a sales tax.

This will put the brakes on things.

It would never be workable

Who says who owns what? - the V5 certainly does not.

If you want to tax on sale then just like for instance commercial property you must allay costs for maintenance, insurance and restoration.

It would never be workable

[s m]

DuncGTS said:

Crazy prices still but
Escort cosworth at first didn't sell as the hammer fell at £81k plus fees and the auction house gave the needed £4k from it fees so it would make it's reserve
The RS 2000 also sold for a lot less than was expected at £87 k plus fees and so did the RS 500 at £100k
All I cars I saw go throw the action were struggling to get to the asking price and quite a few didn't sell, maybe the prices put on the cars was a tad high or maybe buyers are getting a bit more careful in the wallet area

Sounds like there were a few bargains had then.......

[firebird350]

OK, just for fun now so don't beat yourselves up (or your parents for their lack of foresight!) when you read this.

This is from an old 1976 copy of Motoring News (I kept a few from those days) - from the Used Car section of the MN Classifieds at the back of the paper.

In Jan 1976 you could have bought the ENTIRE classified section of used cars (all of them the kind of hot/performance road cars that feature so highly as sought-after classics today) for a total of £53,835. For that outlay you would have acquired a total of seventy-seven cars!

Assuming you possessed an aircraft hangar in which to store them, your collection would have consisted of:

7 x Mk.1 Escort Mexicos (remember they're only between 1 and 5 years old at this point).
2 x MK.1 Escort Twin Cams
5 x Mk.1 Escort RS1600's (road cars obviously)
5 x Mk.1 Escort RS2000's
4 x Mk.1 Lotus Cortinas (incl. a '65 with alloy panels)
4 x Cooper 'S' Minis
2 x Mk1. Capri 3-litre's (GT XLR and 3000E)
7 x Lotus sports cars (Elans, Europas, Elites and Sevens)

Numerous 'fast' road Minis and Escorts such as Mini 1275 GT's/Clubmans, Mk.1 Escort 1300 GT's/1300 Sports etc, etc.
Also:

1 x 1973 TR6 with 23,000 miles for £1,250
1970 Alfa Romeo Giulia
1973 Datsun 240Z - £1,450
1973 Mazda RX3 - Offers (!)
1967 Mustang V8 in green for £450

All the above were MOT'd and NOT ONE individual car was advertized at anything even remotely close to £2K.

Your homework, Gents, is to work out (roughly!) what your collection might be worth today!!!

I suppose (bearing in mind that £100K RS2000 featured) the real question is what that £100K would have bought you back in 1976 - quite a NICE house, I would imagine, for starters!

I do know that when Markku Alen brought the first-ever works Gr. 4 Fiat 131 Abarth (245 BHP - Kugelfischer injection) to the Lombard RAC Rally later that same year that, according to rallying godfather Stuart Turner, the price for buying an exact copy from the Abarth factory in Nov '76 was £18,000.

If only we could have known back then what the future held!

[blade7]

Willhire89 said:

It would never be workable

Who says who owns what? - the V5 certainly does not.

If you want to tax on sale then just like for instance commercial property you must allay costs for maintenance, insurance and restoration.

It would never be workable

If the Taxman really sets his sights on this I bet it will...and good luck evading him.

[bloomen]

firebird350 said:

I do know that when Markku Alen brought the first-ever works Gr. 4 Fiat 131 Abarth (245 BHP - Kugelfischer injection) to the Lombard RAC Rally later that same year that, according to rallying godfather Stuart Turner, the price for buying an exact copy from the Abarth factory in Nov '76 was £18,000.

If only we could have known back then what the future held!

Errr, inflation?

That 131 would be £118,000 in today's money which is more or less what it would fetch at auction give or take a few tens of grands.

The real mind blower is old race cars in 70s copies of Motorsport because they really were nothing but old race cars. GT40s and Lolas for a few grand.

[aaron_2000]

firebird350 said:

OK, just for fun now so don't beat yourselves up (or your parents for their lack of foresight!) when you read this.

This is from an old 1976 copy of Motoring News (I kept a few from those days) - from the Used Car section of the MN Classifieds at the back of the paper.

In Jan 1976 you could have bought the ENTIRE classified section of used cars (all of them the kind of hot/performance road cars that feature so highly as sought-after classics today) for a total of £53,835. For that outlay you would have acquired a total of seventy-seven cars!

Assuming you possessed an aircraft hangar in which to store them, your collection would have consisted of:

7 x Mk.1 Escort Mexicos (remember they're only between 1 and 5 years old at this point).
2 x MK.1 Escort Twin Cams
5 x Mk.1 Escort RS1600's (road cars obviously)
5 x Mk.1 Escort RS2000's
4 x Mk.1 Lotus Cortinas (incl. a '65 with alloy panels)
4 x Cooper 'S' Minis
2 x Mk1. Capri 3-litre's (GT XLR and 3000E)
7 x Lotus sports cars (Elans, Europas, Elites and Sevens)

Numerous 'fast' road Minis and Escorts such as Mini 1275 GT's/Clubmans, Mk.1 Escort 1300 GT's/1300 Sports etc, etc.
Also:

1 x 1973 TR6 with 23,000 miles for £1,250
1970 Alfa Romeo Giulia
1973 Datsun 240Z - £1,450
1973 Mazda RX3 - Offers (!)
1967 Mustang V8 in green for £450

All the above were MOT'd and NOT ONE individual car was advertized at anything even remotely close to £2K.

Your homework, Gents, is to work out (roughly!) what your collection might be worth today!!!

I suppose (bearing in mind that £100K RS2000 featured) the real question is what that £100K would have bought you back in 1976 - quite a NICE house, I would imagine, for starters!

I do know that when Markku Alen brought the first-ever works Gr. 4 Fiat 131 Abarth (245 BHP - Kugelfischer injection) to the Lombard RAC Rally later that same year that, according to rallying godfather Stuart Turner, the price for buying an exact copy from the Abarth factory in Nov '76 was £18,000.

If only we could have known back then what the future held!

£355,598.85 adjusted for inflation.

[LewisR]

aaron_2000 said:

LewisR said:

I was merely placing the two common statements to the two cars (924 & 944).

However, van engines generally tend to be lower power, higher toque units with less regard for a hogh red line, refinement and throttle response, exactly what you don't want in a sports car.

That aside...
This RS2000 or a mint Bentley Turbo R + £85k ??

Why not compare two cars that are even close to similar? RS2000 or a flat? RS2000 or 10 Dacia Dusters? RS2000 or 100000 orders of fries at McDonalds? You think the guy buying this RS2000 is gonna drive it, or be the least bit interested in an old money pit Bentley? The kind of guy that's interested in a £100k RS2000 probably doesn't know/care what it costs, this thing is destined for a collection. So it's either this or something else of the same nature.

I compared 2 cars, not a car to a place of habitation, multiple items of fast food etc.

As for my comparison...
Both are classic RWD performance saloons.
However, the Bentley is arguably experiencing the opposite end of the Ford RS price bubble but I know which one I'd far rather have.

[s m]

LewisR said:

I compared 2 cars, not a car to a place of habitation, multiple items of fast food etc.

As for my comparison...
Both are classic RWD performance saloons.
However, the Bentley is arguably experiencing the opposite end of the Ford RS price bubble but I know which one I'd far rather have.

To find a Bentley with almost zero mileage on though what would be the price of that? Surely more than 15k for something virtually unused? Would people pay 100k for a Bentley Turbo with 1000 miles on? Genuine question? I suspect there's 2 people somewhere who would drive the price to 90k plus fees at an auction, a Bentley collector who would like it for his collection, who won't drive it, someone who is rich enough that 100k is not an issue. Maybe a speculator who knows he can sell it for more?

I take your point though, boil it down to 'you have 20k for a weekend fun thing' - say you have an everyday car/transport sorted......this 15k car will just be something to take out on weekends and enjoy.
So a everyday useable 15k Bentley or everyday useable 15k Mk2 RS2000 with 5k left over as your slush fund for sorting out issues? That's the choice you have to make.
For me, I'd still take the RS2000 - I'm not really into wafting about in luxury or hammering down motorway fast lanes where the Bentley would excel without question. The driving I enjoy, the RS would be fine for though. Nothing against the Bentley per se, just doesn't appeal like if you'd mentioned, say a 15k 964 RS replica or something
With my 5k I'd be more than happy I could afford the bits to fix/upgrade anything on the Escort that might break.... I'm not sure if I could on the Bentley Turbo, never looked into it to be honest
I think both cars would depreciate glacially or remain stable so your money wouldn't be leaching away too fast

It just comes down to preference and I can appreciate anyone who says they'd rather have a Bentley though

[blade7]

I'd rather have a 2.8 Injection Capri than a RS2.

[aaron_2000]

blade7 said:

I'd rather have a 2.8 Injection Capri than a RS2.

With pepperpot alloys

[iSore]

And four speed box. The two tone Forest over Crystal metallic green, X/Y reg please.

[turbospud]

for those that wernt there at the time,the mk2 rs2000 was the most affordable,fastest,best handling cross country car available.
nothing could look at them,proper drivers car and when a few mods were thrown in up a league again,the modern versions in the right hands will embarrass most supercars

[s m]

blade7 said:

I'd rather have a 2.8 Injection Capri than a RS2.

Not a Bentley Turbo?

[Plinth]

turbospud said:

for those that wernt there at the time,the mk2 rs2000 was the most affordable,fastest,best handling cross country car available.
nothing could look at them,proper drivers car and when a few mods were thrown in up a league again,the modern versions in the right hands will embarrass most supercars

[J4CKO]

turbospud said:

for those that wernt there at the time,the mk2 rs2000 was the most affordable,fastest,best handling cross country car available.
nothing could look at them,proper drivers car and when a few mods were thrown in up a league again,the modern versions in the right hands will embarrass most supercars

Embarrass in what way ?

Modern version, asume you mean the Focus RS ? great cat but which supercar is that going to embarrass ?

[aaron_2000]

Oh dear, someone mentioned the Focus RS. Nearly made it a thread without someone doing that