Tesla Roadster: Tesla unveils 'fastest production car ever'

Tesla Roadster: Tesla unveils 'fastest production car ever'

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Discussion

8V085

670 posts

78 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
quotequote all
Would any of you buy a house from a developer who constantly comes up with new ideas and promises of great future despite failing to deliver previously announced schemes. This is how ponzi schemes operate.

jamoor

14,506 posts

216 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
quotequote all
8V085 said:
Would any of you buy a house from a developer who constantly comes up with new ideas and promises of great future despite failing to deliver previously announced schemes. This is how ponzi schemes operate.
Just look at the supercharger network - https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/findus?redirect=no#/bo...

One hell of a ponzi scheme if there was one.

Butter Face

30,350 posts

161 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
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If I won the Lottery tonight I’d have a Founders edition for sure.

RDMcG

19,191 posts

208 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
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Assuming that these numbers are real, then I do think that this will be a watershed moment.

For me, an old line piston head this will not change my life, but if I were 20 or so and looking to the future, I would wonder about the likes of Ferrari, Porsche,or the super exotics.

There will basically be no more records set by cars with internal combustion engines.Go out five years and it will be worse. There will be no reason to invest the development dollars.

Just as the manual gearbox is now just a test of skill and little to do with actual performance or competitive times, the day of the IC engine being the performance king will very soon be over.

Yes, I am very well aware that to achieve competitive times requires skills of course, but in terms of actual SALES, many people buy exotic cars for their status as performance leaders. How many endless columns have there been about the Veyron/Chiron for instance?...

As always , with great change,, the new thing will have all sorts of challenges,,remember how awful the Internet was before the worldwide web?...or the simply horrible digital cameras?/ Or the giant cellphones with limited coverage?..we are at the Danes of this stuff and in my opinion it will advance very rapidly. I am aware of the usual arguments re infrastructure, but as always they will be solved.

London424

12,829 posts

176 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
quotequote all
8V085 said:
Would any of you buy a house from a developer who constantly comes up with new ideas and promises of great future despite failing to deliver previously announced schemes. This is how ponzi schemes operate.
What has he failed to deliver before?

Yes they are usually later than stated, but I’m not aware of things announced but never delivered.

8V085

670 posts

78 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
quotequote all
London424 said:
8V085 said:
Would any of you buy a house from a developer who constantly comes up with new ideas and promises of great future despite failing to deliver previously announced schemes. This is how ponzi schemes operate.
What has he failed to deliver before?

Yes they are usually later than stated, but I’m not aware of things announced but never delivered.
Tesla model 3 and the promises made when it was launched looked a bit optimistic and thus far it has been a bit of failure. Not to mention that it isn't actually released yet, it's on roads being beta tested by Tesla's employees. What else hasn't he delivered. How about quality, consistency? Adding new products without improving basic fit and finish and using "we are not a car company" as an excuse won't work for too long. Especially when regular people who aren't fanatics willing to forgive everything start buying the products.

He's great at building hype and making statements which sound big but are vague, e.g. the 1milion miles non breakdown guarantee on the semi. Or the fact how fast it can go uphill and how great the range is, not mentioning that range uphill will be nothing like the typical quoted.

8V085

670 posts

78 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
quotequote all
jamoor said:
8V085 said:
Would any of you buy a house from a developer who constantly comes up with new ideas and promises of great future despite failing to deliver previously announced schemes. This is how ponzi schemes operate.
Just look at the supercharger network - https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/findus?redirect=no#/bo...

One hell of a ponzi scheme if there was one.
I'd love to be in a position to acquire this network for a couple of cents on a dollar when the S hits the F.

London424

12,829 posts

176 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
quotequote all
8V085 said:
London424 said:
8V085 said:
Would any of you buy a house from a developer who constantly comes up with new ideas and promises of great future despite failing to deliver previously announced schemes. This is how ponzi schemes operate.
What has he failed to deliver before?

Yes they are usually later than stated, but I’m not aware of things announced but never delivered.
Tesla model 3 and the promises made when it was launched looked a bit optimistic and thus far it has been a bit of failure. Not to mention that it isn't actually released yet, it's on roads being beta tested by Tesla's employees. What else hasn't he delivered. How about quality, consistency? Adding new products without improving basic fit and finish and using "we are not a car company" as an excuse won't work for too long. Especially when regular people who aren't fanatics willing to forgive everything start buying the products.

He's great at building hype and making statements which sound big but are vague, e.g. the 1milion miles non breakdown guarantee on the semi. Or the fact how fast it can go uphill and how great the range is, not mentioning that range uphill will be nothing like the typical quoted.
So just the model 3 then? Which as I said, is just running a bit behind.

They are looking like delivering over 100,000 S and X’s this year you know? That tells me plenty of people are buying the products.

Who knows, it might all be smoke and mirrors, but you’re a pretty brave person to bet against him.

8V085

670 posts

78 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
quotequote all
London424 said:
8V085 said:
London424 said:
8V085 said:
Would any of you buy a house from a developer who constantly comes up with new ideas and promises of great future despite failing to deliver previously announced schemes. This is how ponzi schemes operate.
What has he failed to deliver before?

Yes they are usually later than stated, but I’m not aware of things announced but never delivered.
Tesla model 3 and the promises made when it was launched looked a bit optimistic and thus far it has been a bit of failure. Not to mention that it isn't actually released yet, it's on roads being beta tested by Tesla's employees. What else hasn't he delivered. How about quality, consistency? Adding new products without improving basic fit and finish and using "we are not a car company" as an excuse won't work for too long. Especially when regular people who aren't fanatics willing to forgive everything start buying the products.

He's great at building hype and making statements which sound big but are vague, e.g. the 1milion miles non breakdown guarantee on the semi. Or the fact how fast it can go uphill and how great the range is, not mentioning that range uphill will be nothing like the typical quoted.
So just the model 3 then? Which as I said, is just running a bit behind.

They are looking like delivering over 100,000 S and X’s this year you know? That tells me plenty of people are buying the products.

Who knows, it might all be smoke and mirrors, but you’re a pretty brave person to bet against him.
I'm not against them, I think their products are cool and it would be great if they mainly focused on delivering the best EV's on the market. But they have this tendency to design their cars in a way that adds complexity that old money manufacturers tend to avoid. And it's a kind of complexity that has nothing to do with electric underpinnings but makes the car expensive to design test and deliver. And insure, insco's know the BS is strong with this one.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

255 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
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So they want to deliver cool EVs rather than the boring or weird ones. The ones that get trashed in the press...

Tesla/Musk hasnt failed on anything yet apart from the typical deadlines, if you know what his businesses are like you understand that, you get what he promises, just late...

100,000 EV's this year is pretty good going at those prices.

ReaperCushions

6,039 posts

185 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
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Because 1.9 to 60 just isn't quite enough.




Too Drunk to Funk

804 posts

78 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
quotequote all
8V085 said:
Tesla model 3 and the promises made when it was launched looked a bit optimistic and thus far it has been a bit of failure. Not to mention that it isn't actually released yet, it's on roads being beta tested by Tesla's employees.
Yes, strange that we don't even have a 3 in the local dealership yet.

V10 SPM

564 posts

252 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
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We don't have a local dealership at all. By the time there is one every other established and trusted manufacturer will have products on the market that people will buy instead.

D-Angle

4,468 posts

243 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
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I just can't make myself trust anything that Elon Musk says. There's an air of snake oil to everything that comes out of Tesla, intended to make for good headlines in your Facebook feed rather than give actual traction to the electric car against its ICE counterparts. Everything reads like something that you would expect to hear from a narrator in a 'Tesla - What Went Wrong' documentary in a few years' time.

What I'm waiting for is a solution to overnight charging for people who don't have a garage and park their car on the street. But I guess his smug 'simple math' solution to everything doesn't cover that...

DonkeyApple

55,435 posts

170 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
quotequote all
D-Angle said:
What I'm waiting for is a solution to overnight charging for people who don't have a garage and park their car on the street. But I guess his smug 'simple math' solution to everything doesn't cover that...
As legislation pushes new ICE into extinction in the West then hybrid will be the infill for those who cannot easily charge an EV domestically. That'll be quite a long transition period as the massive infrastructure to solve home charging for all only really becomes viable once EVs become genuinely cheaper to purchase than hybrids/ICE.

If you look at the basic economics of the most common U.K. household they need a car but certainly cannot afford to pay the premium for an EV but once the EV does become the cheaper purchase then there will be a sea change to its adoption. Until then the majority will remain with ICE and where they are legislated out of ICE they will use hybrid technology.

And you can see these basic economics being acted upon by the incumbent car manufacturers who while they are building pure EVs for the more premium endbof the market they are delivering hybrids for the masses.

Private EVs will remain more the premium end product or specialist niches for quite some time. It's hybrids that almost all of us will be driving by the end of the 2020s. And in the EV segment, if that is remaining a more premium segment then when competition arrives from Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Audi, Volvo and probably many more then this is going to be a very competitive market place where branding obviously is vital but so is being able to deliver a product with enough profit margin and that means hugely efficient construction as well as battery supply. And the incumbents do have the edge on both aspects there.

jamoor

14,506 posts

216 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
As legislation pushes new ICE into extinction in the West then hybrid will be the infill for those who cannot easily charge an EV domestically. That'll be quite a long transition period as the massive infrastructure to solve home charging for all only really becomes viable once EVs become genuinely cheaper to purchase than hybrids/ICE.

If you look at the basic economics of the most common U.K. household they need a car but certainly cannot afford to pay the premium for an EV but once the EV does become the cheaper purchase then there will be a sea change to its adoption. Until then the majority will remain with ICE and where they are legislated out of ICE they will use hybrid technology.

And you can see these basic economics being acted upon by the incumbent car manufacturers who while they are building pure EVs for the more premium endbof the market they are delivering hybrids for the masses.

Private EVs will remain more the premium end product or specialist niches for quite some time. It's hybrids that almost all of us will be driving by the end of the 2020s. And in the EV segment, if that is remaining a more premium segment then when competition arrives from Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Audi, Volvo and probably many more then this is going to be a very competitive market place where branding obviously is vital but so is being able to deliver a product with enough profit margin and that means hugely efficient construction as well as battery supply. And the incumbents do have the edge on both aspects there.
West? That's funny. China and India have cottoned on too.

China see electric cars as a way to infiltrate western markets in a big way with electric cars. Imo Chinese manufacturers will leapfrog ice and introduce electric cars to us.

Evanivitch

20,149 posts

123 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
quotequote all
D-Angle said:
What I'm waiting for is a solution to overnight charging for people who don't have a garage and park their car on the street. But I guess his smug 'simple math' solution to everything doesn't cover that...
I don't know, maybe a 300 mile range car that can 80% charge in 40 mins at a growing network of proprietary rapid charger clusters located around the country that would eventually allow people to go about their normal business (shopping, socialising, cinema) whilst they got a week's worth of charge?

If only someone could make that a reality.

Evanivitch

20,149 posts

123 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
quotequote all
Too Drunk to Funk said:
8V085 said:
Tesla model 3 and the promises made when it was launched looked a bit optimistic and thus far it has been a bit of failure. Not to mention that it isn't actually released yet, it's on roads being beta tested by Tesla's employees.
Yes, strange that we don't even have a 3 in the local dealership yet.
It's late, therefore it's a failure?

I guess the new TVR is a failure already then. As was the Bugatti Veyron,

8V085

670 posts

78 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
quotequote all
Evanivitch said:
Too Drunk to Funk said:
8V085 said:
Tesla model 3 and the promises made when it was launched looked a bit optimistic and thus far it has been a bit of failure. Not to mention that it isn't actually released yet, it's on roads being beta tested by Tesla's employees.
Yes, strange that we don't even have a 3 in the local dealership yet.
It's late, therefore it's a failure?

I guess the new TVR is a failure already then. As was the Bugatti Veyron,
Bugatti Veyron is a vanity project. Unlike Tesla VAG can afford dropping money on vanity projects because they treat them as a marketing exercise and that is paid for by the rest of their line up.

8V085

670 posts

78 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
quotequote all
D-Angle said:
I just can't make myself trust anything that Elon Musk says. There's an air of snake oil to everything that comes out of Tesla, intended to make for good headlines in your Facebook feed rather than give actual traction to the electric car against its ICE counterparts. Everything reads like something that you would expect to hear from a narrator in a 'Tesla - What Went Wrong' documentary in a few years' time.
Exactly this, there is a strong whiff of BS in his statements. Had he had access to unlimited supply of cash I'd be less sceptical.