RE: Tesla Roadster: 'Quickest car in the world'
Discussion
Jonesy23 said:
98elise said:
CanAm said:
98elise said:
It is absolutely not based on an Elise chassis. The new roadster is a 4 seater for a start!
From the photos I don't think this is any more a serious 4-seater than an Evora. Though if it used a modified Evora chassis, we'd probably know about it.The Evora is of course similar in layout to the Tesla roadster, however that uses the VVA chassis. VVA chassis predates the Evora and as a modular system, so even if the roadster used that, it wouldn't be an Evora chassis.
This new one (such as it nominally exists) is apparently based on the Model S.
The S chassis would make sense, but even its a new chassis it will resemble the S chassis as the skateboard design is the best layout for EV motors and batteries.
That said one poster thinks the model S is a rebadged Mercedes
babatunde said:
This is where we are, as a relevant comparison, there is no mechanical watch on earth that keeps time better thana £10 Casio, a £20 China phone, people still wear mechanical watches, doubtless some of us will still keep our ICE vehicles as playthings.
The difference between the watch and the car is, that the watch can be made, sold and serviced by one capable man alone. The tools needed to do it fit in one room. Your ICE car requires a mega-billion dollar industry with millions of jobs, an extremely expensive gas-station distribution system, a global logistics network, the main resource needed to drive them has been the reason for multiple wars. When this really goes into full swing, you'll probably be buying your fuel in pharmacies again, just how it all started. Noone's going to keep that machinery running to keep playthings on the road. Also, my bet is, that expensive watches will not be legislated away, ice-cars will. So, yes, you'll be able to keep it as a (play)thing. Whether you/we will still be able, allowed or can afford to drive them, is another question (though the end of this development may still be 20 or more years away).
Jonesy23 said:
98elise said:
That said one poster thinks the model S is a rebadged Mercedes
That has an element of truth; they do use a lot of bought in components and that includes bits originally meant for Mercedes.It's clearly not a rebadged Mercedes.
Cold said:
This is a lot of talk about something that's the equivalent of automotive smoke and mirrors. Number one objective achieved by Musk.
That's what people said in 2008, when the first Roadster was shown to the world. And again in 2012, when the Model S was launched.The thing with Musk is, he is out to move the goal posts in an industry that hasn't moved a goal post in >100 years. Then the naysayers come out with "meh, we've never done it this way" or "it'll never happen". And subsequently, Musk shows us how it's done. Maybe not in the ridiculously short time frames he sets himself and his people, but he does it nevertheless. Perhaps, just maybe, (even) more people should sit up and take notice of this crazy bloke. He seems to be on to something.
98elise said:
Jonesy23 said:
98elise said:
That said one poster thinks the model S is a rebadged Mercedes
That has an element of truth; they do use a lot of bought in components and that includes bits originally meant for Mercedes.It's clearly not a rebadged Mercedes.
Given how much of that stuff is usually in the engine and gearbox, I wouldn't be surprised if the amount of stuff which is also found in other cars is on the low side. That still leaves plenty of commonality - they're not going to build a brake disc factory.
It's about column stalks, isn't it?
babatunde said:
boxerTen said:
Its good it can do 600 miles non-stop, but can it be driven hard for any length of time? Let's say, 25 laps of Silverstone (about 1 hour and 90 miles) non-stop on a 'tank' with the throttle pinned to the floor at every opportunity?
Name one car that can, that's as coherent an argument as stating the a Veyron is useless because it will empty its tank in 12 minutes at top speedEdited by boxerTen on Sunday 19th November 12:26
Mikos said:
I can see a real benefit with these big motors to have modes that are configurable, they can do almost anything with the maths behind the scenes. just imagine if they wanted to make a proper fun mode.... it should be easy to put in a gear lever with a nice mechanical feel and map virtual gears with throttle response to suit each gear esp with 10000nm on tap. virtual engine breaking and a programmable "diff". therefore not beyond the whit of man to make a real analogue feeling car that has a clutch and gear stick that feels natural. Virtual revs so if the gears so heal and doing can be done. no tc and boggs down if 5th is selected, rather than 3rd etc....Can choose power to suit road so can feel like you are really driving no front motor etc. in short i think the possibilities for fun are endless. it just needs manufacturers and programmers with a sense of fun and some imagination, the hardware appears to be there with this roadster. the only thing missing would be the noise. For track use I would be surprised if the batteries hold up but for fast road use would be perfect.
All that work to make it an analogue feeling car - why not just make and sell an analogue car . Virtual gears, virtual engine breaking, virtual revs, synthesised sounds. What's the point in doing all that when there are loads of fantastic cars out there that do it all for real, and will be for the foreseeable future. Notanotherturbo said:
All that work to make it an analogue feeling car - why not just make and sell an analogue car . Virtual gears, virtual engine breaking, virtual revs, synthesised sounds. What's the point in doing all that when there are loads of fantastic cars out there that do it all for real, and will be for the foreseeable future.
Because the ICE car will be taxed to hell, excluded from areas of population and eventually banned from being sold.babatunde said:
I'm sure that was one of the arguments of the horse and buggy proponents, dubbins has a soul, no mechanical contraption can replicate that bond between a horse and his rider
They couldn't wait to get rid of the horse. It was expensive, unreliable and enormously polluting. If you think working behind a farting, s
tting and sometimes unresponsive animal was enjoyable, you haven't thought about it much.As soon as there was a more reliable, less polluting, higher performance, more flexible and cheaper option available, it was off to the knackers yard for dubbins.
Once EV cars can be genuinely cheaper to own and match the performance of the ICE they will sell on scale, if to achieve that the market has to be forced with punitive rules on ICE, we have all become poorer. How do you think that will be received amongst the majority of the population who don't have any spare cash?
Imo the sooner EV's get better and cheaper will be good for fun ICE cars. If we have to be forced into EVs it will be by restricting and punishing ice. Lets get real, 95% of people couldnt care less what drivetrain their car has, most modern cars are as interesting as a fridge. If we take EVs up by choice no one will care about a few of us oddballs hooning round in old ICE cars any more than we care about people keeping horses or vintage steam cars.
fblm said:
Imo the sooner EV's get better and cheaper will be good for fun ICE cars. If we have to be forced into EVs it will be by restricting and punishing ice. Lets get real, 95% of people couldnt care less what drivetrain their car has, most modern cars are as interesting as a fridge. If we take EVs up by choice no one will care about a few of us oddballs hooning round in old ICE cars any more than we care about people keeping horses or vintage steam cars.
See my other post about the watch-argument. Problem is ICE cars require a huge infrastructure around them: petrol-stations, spare-parts, oil, the whole bang. This will largely thin out massively or go away altogether.And a lot of stuff will not be produced anymore as it's not needed for EVs: transmissions, motor-parts, exhaust-systems, petrol-tanks,etc. So for the manufacturers it will not be changing some specs for parts they mass-produce anyway in a similar fashion and cranking out a few parts for the vintage guys to prevent idle-time. It will require machinery and production-systems that will then be largely obsolete and that must exclusively be kept running for the vintage guys.
If there are only a few left, supply of all that will dry up to high degree and keeping them running will become disproportionately more demanding, difficult and expensive. Which, of course, in turn will further reduce demand. Sure it will always be done if people pay up for it, but it will not be a mass phenomenon.
Chances are the 1960th TVR Griffith will actually be more likely to be still driving around in 30 years than the new one as its whole drivetrain is a lot less complicated than any modern engine as you could worst-case craft the parts yourself.
So i think if one wants to get a feel for what it will be like, one has to think more of maintaining a 1920s oldtimer than a 1990s car.
The more i think about it, and the Tesla got me thinking, i believe this is unstoppable and will have a major impact on entire industries that are not prepared for it.
ChocolateFrog said:
The fast chargers must be insane to charge the lorries, something like a megawatt each. I wonder if the grid could cope with that sort of demand.
don't ask this question the EV sycophantic will be able to say there is a gillion surplus in the grid already. But when you actually look at the figures surprisingly there isn't.ChocolateFrog said:
The fast chargers must be insane to charge the lorries, something like a megawatt each. I wonder if the grid could cope with that sort of demand.
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