RE: Tesla Roadster: 'Quickest car in the world'
Discussion
RumbleOfThunder said:
jsf said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
jsf said:
Roscoe5 said:
Game changer!! Looks subtle, yet faster than a p1
jason61c said:
People need to take everything he says with a pinch of salt.
Tesla's motto 'over promise, under deliver'.
Yes Tesla/SpaceX promise that the things they will deliver will be 10 times better than currently available, and when they come out they are only 5 times better....Tesla's motto 'over promise, under deliver'.
Disgraceful
Cold said:
Will Tesla still be in business by the time this thing is in production?
It doesn't matter, Tesla's IP and assets still have a value in the 10's of billions.The US has chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, it's debts would be written off, the creditors would own the company as a going concern.
I think it is likely that those creditors would see their best value in leaving the current management, staff and assets in place rather than breaking the company up and selling the assets. Especially as most of the engineering staff would go with Musk or to rivals.
Where Tesla have struggled is in the production of a volume car, not in the field of disrupting the entire industry, they will solve a volume production line before their rivals solve competing vehicles.
Ares said:
But one of the biggest whinges over EVs is about the lack of ability to drive an EV for 500miles non-stop.....? Because thats what most people do. Daily. 
Certainly not daily but it is a factor. Driving 400+ in one day is something I'll do fairly often, sometimes several times in a week I can do that without having to refuel/recharge. I don't have to think about the car getting back home again and I can just expense my fuel that only takes 5 minutes to replace. Having to make sure my car is charged all the way up before I set off, and have a suitable charger at the destination(s) and en route home again.
If they can do 600 miles on a charge that's awesome but charging that via a 13a plug will take ages.
OK so it's perhaps not a typical use case but if you're a rep or someone who has to drive a lot for a job it's a factor. If they can crack that problem then you've got your next Mondeo or 3 Series. My neighbour has put 40k on his poor diesel Jag this year purely for work.
I think the advancements with super-capacitors so that they can hold as much charge as batteries is very interesting as they can charge insanely quickly so it would be similar to putting in Petrol/Diesel from a length of time PoV.
Sine Metu said:
Musk has already achieved his initial goal which was to demonstrate that electric cars were viable.
Most people's idea of viability would also include some semblance of profit I imagine. I'm intrigued what your definition is? If it's to show that electric cars can be a practical proposition, that "viability" was demonstrated before the beginning of the last century!NJJ said:
Crazy performance statistics but once you get over the press-and-hold-on factor, I'm not sure it will ever make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up, unless you've misjudged a corner that is.
But what happens to Tesla once EVs are everywhere, what will make a Tesla, a Tesla? They have pushed the envelope tech-wise and have embarrassed the legacy car makers, but take away the current wow factor and what else is left? Not enough to make them desirable in my opinion once EVs by their prestige contemporaries hit the market. However, maybe at that stage they will have moved the game on again!
Tesla aren't in the long haul to be a luxury brand, they went for luxury because the could hide the initial cost of the batteries in the price tag.But what happens to Tesla once EVs are everywhere, what will make a Tesla, a Tesla? They have pushed the envelope tech-wise and have embarrassed the legacy car makers, but take away the current wow factor and what else is left? Not enough to make them desirable in my opinion once EVs by their prestige contemporaries hit the market. However, maybe at that stage they will have moved the game on again!
In the long haul they are surfing the wave of automation and electric vehicles.
The flip to automation will be surprisingly fast (with a long tail), reference horses in New York.
In 1904 cars were rare, 1908 Model T appears, 1912 equal number of cars and horses, 1917 virtually no horses left.
An autonomous shared electric car will be cheaper to use than operating cost of your existing car (~10-20p/mile), people will simply stop using existing cars. This will be a massive difference compared to existing public transport which has a higher cost than the marginal cost of using a car you have already.
This switch will start basically the second that a country allows fully autonomous driving, once that happens there will be huge popular demand to allow it in other countries. The current schedules for trials and similar will go out the window when the technology is shown to work somewhere else. If I were betting I would say that this will happen in the next 10 years.
If you look at what type of cars are usually used as taxis you get an idea of what the priorities will be for the people left building cars. It is the premium brands who are likely to take the biggest hit (there will be no brand cachet as any scrote will be able to afford to hire a luxury car for 50p/mile). Tesla on the other hand will be making the batteries and drivelines for a large proportion of the worlds cars, trucks, vans, E-VTOL aircraft and cargo drones.
Gandahar said:
J4CKO said:
RamboLambo said:
Sadly it will be where the future lies along with self driving vehicles - Jonny Cabs
I might be a dinosaur but long live the Normally aspirated engine like that in the V10 Huracan Performante. The noise that things make will be more thrilling than a 1.9s 0 - 60 time in any EV
Indeed, but its just like the bloke in 1900 saying how much he loves horses and these new fangled automobiles will never catch on as you cant feed them sugar lumps and have them kick you in the head.I might be a dinosaur but long live the Normally aspirated engine like that in the V10 Huracan Performante. The noise that things make will be more thrilling than a 1.9s 0 - 60 time in any EV
The electrical capacity to charge ever car in the UK overnight is pretty easy to achieve with the current grid and 5-10 new power stations, gas stations can be built pretty quickly and eventually replaced by nuclear and solar.
Electric will really come through with the shared autonomous ownership model, we will need a fraction of the number of car parking spaces basically no on street parking. Some existing car parks with good electrical connections near by will become car charging centres. This will free up a great deal of land for more housing in towns.
With autonomous car costs per mile likely to be in the region of 5-20p/mile the demand for car travel in existing urban areas is likely to be excessive. The most expensive part of the cost is likely to be the per mile road charging that will be implemented. This is likely to drive people towards ride sharing with buses being replaced by minibus sized autonomous cars.
I think the Musk vision of Tesla's on skates in tunnels is partially right in that self driven electric cars will be able to fit down relatively austere small diameter tunnels which could replace/augment much of the surface streets in high density areas. No need for the skate in my opinion.
qube_TA said:
Ares said:
But one of the biggest whinges over EVs is about the lack of ability to drive an EV for 500miles non-stop.....? Because thats what most people do. Daily.
Certainly not daily but it is a factor. Driving 400+ in one day is something I'll do fairly often, sometimes several times in a week I can do that without having to refuel/recharge. I don't have to think about the car getting back home again and I can just expense my fuel that only takes 5 minutes to replace. Having to make sure my car is charged all the way up before I set off, and have a suitable charger at the destination(s) and en route home again.
If they can do 600 miles on a charge that's awesome but charging that via a 13a plug will take ages.
OK so it's perhaps not a typical use case but if you're a rep or someone who has to drive a lot for a job it's a factor. If they can crack that problem then you've got your next Mondeo or 3 Series. My neighbour has put 40k on his poor diesel Jag this year purely for work.
I think the advancements with super-capacitors so that they can hold as much charge as batteries is very interesting as they can charge insanely quickly so it would be similar to putting in Petrol/Diesel from a length of time PoV.
On the basis that Model S taxis can run 100,000s of miles, I don't see how the sales rep would have a major issue - especially with Tesla Superchargers opening in most motorway service stations.
WojaWabbit said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
To you and I, yes, it is about the experiences. Not for the majority of V10 Lambo or Porsche GT3 owners though, who are more interested in posing, or contemplating the financial gains of flipping the next limited edition. The masses certainly don't give two hoots about experiences. Fun to them would be going spectacularly fast in a straight line for a second or two, then crawling round town while the instagrammers go nuts.It's a changing world.
Cars will soon be about experiences entirely, driving country roads is likely to remain a hobby, driving off road and on a track too.
Though again if you pull the thread on these things and global travel is getting less and less expensive it might be that you go on a driving holiday (via aircraft or hyperloop somewhere with a lot of space rather than drive around the UK.
vz-r_dave said:
Nanook said:
Burwood said:
Currently, the experience is a lot to do with smugness. That will wear off when they are ubiquitous and the EV driver looks over at the oil burner and dreams of the good ol days. If you genuinely enjoy driving you can't possibly enjoy EV cars.
Why?Why can you enjoy driving, and not enjoy an electric car?
I know a deaf chap that drives. He tells me he enjoys driving? Is he lying? I mean, if he can't hear the engine, where's the fun?
My view is that the pleasure in driving is fundamentally about control, an EV gives you perfect control of forward velocity, you want power you get it straight away. While there may be some macho pleasure in mastering the manual gearbox an EV driveline is ultimately better.
Once the technology makes its way down to track cars and off-road vehicles I expect we will see lots of electric drive trains on vehicles design exclusively for pleasure. Why exactly should we want to compromise devices made for enjoyment to satisfy requirements for commuting.
This is what electric cars will do for driving!
Talksteer said:
WojaWabbit said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
To you and I, yes, it is about the experiences. Not for the majority of V10 Lambo or Porsche GT3 owners though, who are more interested in posing, or contemplating the financial gains of flipping the next limited edition. The masses certainly don't give two hoots about experiences. Fun to them would be going spectacularly fast in a straight line for a second or two, then crawling round town while the instagrammers go nuts.It's a changing world.
Cars will soon be about experiences entirely, driving country roads is likely to remain a hobby, driving off road and on a track too.
Though again if you pull the thread on these things and global travel is getting less and less expensive it might be that you go on a driving holiday (via aircraft or hyperloop somewhere with a lot of space rather than drive around the UK.
If you are interested in this stuff this shows how bad the financial position "might be" for Tesla next year
Would imply that even if Tesla can make 10,000 Model3/week next year they will still be losing $3m/day by the end of 2018
In fact its not clear from the firms own numbers how they could possibly not lose a fortune
Although this is obviously written from the "short side" - and as they say just because they are going to burn through another $2bn next year doesn't mean that someone won't give them the money
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4126264-even-mode...
Would imply that even if Tesla can make 10,000 Model3/week next year they will still be losing $3m/day by the end of 2018
In fact its not clear from the firms own numbers how they could possibly not lose a fortune
Although this is obviously written from the "short side" - and as they say just because they are going to burn through another $2bn next year doesn't mean that someone won't give them the money
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4126264-even-mode...
I agree with most of the future-vision aid out here. I'm dubious that Tesla will steal the sort of market share they hope to, but that#s a minor point.
The only thing I really disagree with is this obsession that everyone has that people will be zipping around in autonomous car-share priced per mile. The autonomous yes, and the per mile yes. But the whole reason people love their cars, in preference to public transport is that it is "theirs". The moment you lease it, you're on public transport/in a taxi. Sure they might come in handy for city dwellers who need to make a non-public transport connected journey occasionally. I see no reason for them to become popular with regular drivers.
People like to own stuff. And, wrightly or wrongy, they want to own nicer stuff than the next person.
The only thing I really disagree with is this obsession that everyone has that people will be zipping around in autonomous car-share priced per mile. The autonomous yes, and the per mile yes. But the whole reason people love their cars, in preference to public transport is that it is "theirs". The moment you lease it, you're on public transport/in a taxi. Sure they might come in handy for city dwellers who need to make a non-public transport connected journey occasionally. I see no reason for them to become popular with regular drivers.
People like to own stuff. And, wrightly or wrongy, they want to own nicer stuff than the next person.
suffolk009 said:
I agree with most of the future-vision aid out here. I'm dubious that Tesla will steal the sort of market share they hope to, but that#s a minor point.
The only thing I really disagree with is this obsession that everyone has that people will be zipping around in autonomous car-share priced per mile. The autonomous yes, and the per mile yes. But the whole reason people love their cars, in preference to public transport is that it is "theirs". The moment you lease it, you're on public transport/in a taxi. Sure they might come in handy for city dwellers who need to make a non-public transport connected journey occasionally. I see no reason for them to become popular with regular drivers.
People like to own stuff. And, wrightly or wrongy, they want to own nicer stuff than the next person.
Depends where you are.The only thing I really disagree with is this obsession that everyone has that people will be zipping around in autonomous car-share priced per mile. The autonomous yes, and the per mile yes. But the whole reason people love their cars, in preference to public transport is that it is "theirs". The moment you lease it, you're on public transport/in a taxi. Sure they might come in handy for city dwellers who need to make a non-public transport connected journey occasionally. I see no reason for them to become popular with regular drivers.
People like to own stuff. And, wrightly or wrongy, they want to own nicer stuff than the next person.
In the North Shores/Suburbs of Chicago (where I spend a fortnight a quarter), they are one of the most popular $50k+ cars on the roads. Dozens and dozens around.
In my home area of Cheshire, they are not as common but you'll see 20/25 per day easily.
suffolk009 said:
I agree with most of the future-vision aid out here. I'm dubious that Tesla will steal the sort of market share they hope to, but that#s a minor point.
The only thing I really disagree with is this obsession that everyone has that people will be zipping around in autonomous car-share priced per mile. The autonomous yes, and the per mile yes. But the whole reason people love their cars, in preference to public transport is that it is "theirs". The moment you lease it, you're on public transport/in a taxi. Sure they might come in handy for city dwellers who need to make a non-public transport connected journey occasionally. I see no reason for them to become popular with regular drivers.
People like to own stuff. And, wrightly or wrongy, they want to own nicer stuff than the next person.
We currently have two daily driver cars. If we could buy by the mile then we would only run one. If it was cheap enough then I wouldn't even bother with that.The only thing I really disagree with is this obsession that everyone has that people will be zipping around in autonomous car-share priced per mile. The autonomous yes, and the per mile yes. But the whole reason people love their cars, in preference to public transport is that it is "theirs". The moment you lease it, you're on public transport/in a taxi. Sure they might come in handy for city dwellers who need to make a non-public transport connected journey occasionally. I see no reason for them to become popular with regular drivers.
People like to own stuff. And, wrightly or wrongy, they want to own nicer stuff than the next person.
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