Metric Fuel Consumption

[Shakermaker]

A pain in the arse nowadays indeed. I can understand why it was all used, and with a bit of context, it all makes complete sense really, back before most people had access to accurate measuring tools.

For your info, and in case you are wondering - its believed to be a "loose cup" of things so you don't pack the flour down into the mug, or the oats etc, just scoop it up. The cups are pretty much the same as most every day tea/coffee cups that you buy, none of those mini espresso ones, or those giant Sports Direct ones that flood the place if you spill them.

[RBH58]

kambites said:

Doesn't Canada use miles per imperial gallon?

Canada is metric. They are smarter than their US neighbours.

[thegreenhell]

TooMany2cvs said:

Oh, and it's great if EVERYTHING is cups, but if there's a teaspoon or other measure in there, too, then which cup you use does matter.

How big is your teaspoon though?

The reality is that cooking and baking doesn't need to be that precise. It's all about getting the relative proportions approximately right. Measuring every ingredient to the nearest gram or millilitre is a waste of time. Most people measure approximately with cups and spoons and then adjust as necessary by taste and feel as they go along. Simple folks have managed just fine like this for hundreds of years, so I don't know why it should be such a problem for you now.

The other thing is that you appear to be analysing this from the perspective of someone who's never made these measurements or calculations before. People cook like this every day so it becomes second nature. It's the same with MPG. If you use it all the time it's second nature to very quickly calculate how far you can go with what you've got in the tank. I'm sure it would be the same for l/100km if one used it enough, but all that this thread clearly demonstrates is that people like what they know, and changing to a different system that's upside down from what they're used to is a ballache. There is no right or wrong system.

[TooMany2cvs]

Shakermaker said:

For your info, and in case you are wondering - its believed to be a "loose cup" of things so you don't pack the flour down into the mug, or the oats etc, just scoop it up. The cups are pretty much the same as most every day tea/coffee cups that you buy, none of those mini espresso ones, or those giant Sports Direct ones that flood the place if you spill them.

We've got a set - Aussie metric ones, from when SWMBO lived over there.

They even get used regularly... a slightly short cup of basmati's about right for two, a (slightly squished down) cup of porridge oats to two of milk. They're a lot smaller than the mugs we have, though...

[LimaDelta]

Try general aviation in the UK...

Altitude - ft
Distance - nm
Runway length - m
Speed - Kts
Fuel - lbs
Fuel flow - GpH
Air pressure - Hpa (mb)
Manifold pressure - inHG
Power - hp
Engine oil - quarts
Air temp - DegC
Oil temp - DegF
Oil pressure - PSI

And probably others I've forgotten to mention.

[TooMany2cvs]

LimaDelta said:

Try general aviation in the UK...

Altitude - ft
Distance - nm
Runway length - m
Speed - Kts
Fuel - lbs
Fuel flow - GpH
Air pressure - Hpa (mb)
Manifold pressure - inHG
Power - hp
Engine oil - quarts
Air temp - DegC
Oil temp - DegF
Oil pressure - PSI

And probably others I've forgotten to mention.

Well, thank gawd aviation isn't something that ever crosses international boundaries, because then it'd get REALLY confusing...

<puts head in hands, sobbing>

[8V085]

LimaDelta said:

Try general aviation in the UK...

Altitude - ft
Distance - nm
Runway length - m
Speed - Kts
Fuel - lbs
Fuel flow - GpH
Air pressure - Hpa (mb)
Manifold pressure - inHG
Power - hp
Engine oil - quarts
Air temp - DegC
Oil temp - DegF
Oil pressure - PSI

And probably others I've forgotten to mention.

Funny you mention aviation and unit mix ups, Air Canada Flight 143 aka "Gimli Glider" is the best example of what happens when multiple units are introduced into the same system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M18mgFf8iQI

[Mr2Mike]

TooMany2cvs said:

You have 20 litres, you know you use 7 per 100km, and you think it's "mental gymnastics" to work out that there's just under three 7s in 20, so you've got a bit under 300km of fuel?

What's 300km? That has to be divided by 1.61 to convert to miles, since that's the unit we use in the UK.

So its either:

4.5*40

or

((20/7)*100)/1.61

You honestly think that those two are just as quick and easy to do in your head? Litres/100km is intrinsically stupid and clunky, where did 100km come from? That's not a standard unit of distance. If we were currently measuring fuel use in something equally stupid like miles/10 pints you might have a point.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Thursday 23 November 11:09

[GroundEffect]

I think in both. I'm bilingual when it comes to units

Mpg is a stupid measure given how we actually buy fuel (and fk gallons) but my brain prefers that order of units (unit distance/unit fuel Vs unit fuel/unit distance) so I'm happy to change to miles per litre or km per litre.

Whilst I'm at it - are there any official government plans to move to km? We are supposed to be a metric country.

[TooMany2cvs]

Mr2Mike said:

TooMany2cvs said:

You have 20 litres, you know you use 7 per 100km, and you think it's "mental gymnastics" to work out that there's just under three 7s in 20, so you've got a bit under 300km of fuel?

What's 300km? That has to be divided by 1.61 to convert to miles, since that's the unit we use in the UK.

If you'd read on a sentence or two, you'd have been reminded that that particular conversion is SLAP BANG IN FRONT OF YOU ON THE DASHBOARD...

It's also one that's inherently pretty damn familiar with everybody who isn't so utterly insular as to never drive outside the UK.

[TooMany2cvs]

thegreenhell said:

How big is your teaspoon though?

A teaspoon is a standardised 5ml.

thegreenhell said:

The other thing is that you appear to be analysing this from the perspective of someone who's never made these measurements or calculations before. People cook like this every day so it becomes second nature. It's the same with MPG. If you use it all the time it's second nature to very quickly calculate how far you can go with what you've got in the tank. I'm sure it would be the same for l/100km if one used it enough, but all that this thread clearly demonstrates is that people like what they know, and changing to a different system that's upside down from what they're used to is a ballache. There is no right or wrong system.

And that's precisely why letting this utter mess of a half-metrication continue for so damn long is the worst possible solution.

If we'd done the job properly when we originally started it, everybody would now have had over 40 years of just using one set of units. Ounces and gallons would be as irrelevant as half-crowns and farthings.

[James TiT]

TooMany2cvs said:

If you'd read on a sentence or two, you'd have been reminded that that particular conversion is SLAP BANG IN FRONT OF YOU ON THE DASHBOARD...

It's also one that's inherently pretty damn familiar with everybody who isn't so utterly insular as to never drive outside the UK.

There is no need o shout is there?

[thegreenhell]

TooMany2cvs said:

thegreenhell said:

How big is your teaspoon though?

A teaspoon is a standardised 5ml.

And a cup is a standardised 236.59ml. I bet if I go into the kitchen now I can find teaspoons of many different sizes, just as surely as you can find cups of different sizes.

[TooMany2cvs]

thegreenhell said:

And a cup is a standardised 236.59ml.

An American cup is.
A metric cup is 250ml.
An imperial cup is 284ml.
A Canadian cup is 224ml.
A Japanese cup is 200ml.
A Latin American cup is either 200ml or 250ml.

I do apologise - there is a second common definition of a teaspoon - the US teaspoon is not exactly 5ml, it's 4.9289ml.

[Horsetan]

Shakermaker said:

.....they decided to make a proper English mile to be 8 furlongs, a measure they already used in farming....

....and were later to use in horse racing. 8 furlongs on a fast horse definitely feels a lot hairier than in a car.

GroundEffect said:

.....are there any official government plans to move to km? We are supposed to be a metric country.

That may not be quite so pressing after Brexit, but that's another (long and shaggy) story.

Edited by Horsetan on Thursday 23 November 17:25

[Robmarriott]

thegreenhell said:

TooMany2cvs said:

thegreenhell said:

How big is your teaspoon though?

A teaspoon is a standardised 5ml.

And a cup is a standardised 236.59ml. I bet if I go into the kitchen now I can find teaspoons of many different sizes, just as surely as you can find cups of different sizes.

You're confusing physical object of 'a teaspoon' with the measurement of 'a teaspoon' easy mistake to make I guess, the terminology is similar after all.

[Gojira]

All these folks complaining about using different sets of units...

Didn't you learn to do sums in your head at school?

Me, I was doing long division of pounds, shillings and pence in my head before I started junior school (or before England won the World Cup, if you want an idea of how long ago that was )

I spend most of my time at work fighting spreadsheets, and if I couldn't look at the numbers and see roughly what the answer -ought- to be, I'd be in deep trouble...

I can remember the conversion factors for lots of metric to imperial conversions, and reasonable approximations to speed up the sums when needed, so mpg <> litres/100km or whatever are no problem.

Mind you, my slide rule is less than 2 metres from my keyboard, so maybe the door of my Computer Hole -does- need a "Sad Git Inside" sign making up!

[Vanin]

LimaDelta said:

Try general aviation in the UK...

Altitude - ft
Distance - nm
Runway length - m
Speed - Kts
Fuel - lbs
Fuel flow - GpH
Air pressure - Hpa (mb)
Manifold pressure - inHG
Power - hp
Engine oil - quarts
Air temp - DegC
Oil temp - DegF
Oil pressure - PSI

And probably others I've forgotten to mention.

Good man! One of my favourite subjects!

You forgot to mention to all the metric freaks out there that a circle is divided into 360 degrees for navigation and then into minutes which leads nicely to the next topic which is time
24 hours in a day, 12 hours on most clock faces, sixty minutes in an hour and sixty seconds in a minute.

How does all that sit with the decimal mentality? What next 10 hour days with 100 minute hours and 100 second minutes?

100 degree circles?

[Vanin]

TooMany2cvs said:

You have 20 litres, you know you use 7 per 100km, and you think it's "mental gymnastics" to work out that there's just under three 7s in 20, so you've got a bit under 300km of fuel?

If anything, from your example, I'd have said 3 x 7 = 21 is easier mental arithmetic than 4.5 x 40 = 180.

You need one further piece of information - 62 miles = 100 km - to know if you can do 150 miles (you can because 300km is 186 miles). Your dual-marked speedo gives you that information.
You need one further piece of information - 4.5 litres = 1 gallon - to know if you can do it with mpg, too. If you google for that information, the chances are high you'll be told it's 3.8 liters, unless you're aware of US-UK differences in gallons.

If we were consistent with units, instead of this half-arsed mash-up, then you would not need any metric-imperial piece of information.

'course, the reality is that you'll need to fill up, because the economy figures never work in the real world, no matter whether metric or imperial. And the fuel gauge probably isn't linear anyway, so who knows if you have 15 or 25 litres?

You remind me of the wonderful Tom Lehrer!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIWaJ0sy03g

[saaby93]

Vanin said:

Good man! One of my favourite subjects!

You forgot to mention to all the metric freaks out there that a circle is divided into 360 degrees for navigation and then into minutes which leads nicely to the next topic which is time
24 hours in a day, 12 hours on most clock faces, sixty minutes in an hour and sixty seconds in a minute.

How does all that sit with the decimal mentality? What next 10 hour days with 100 minute hours and 100 second minutes?

100 degree circles?

Isnt it because they thought there were about 360 days in a year
To change that to metric youd need to do something significant