RE: Jaguar XE SV Project 8 Nurburgring lap
Discussion
production car that will have only 300 made and with so many alterations comparing to a normal XE (even the top of the range). Nice detailed description here.
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/8-things-you-need...
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/8-things-you-need...
Tim16V said:
As above - irrelevant comparison of a prototype with the Giulia that actually exits for purchase today, will smash the lap record tomorrow and do the school run the following day.
I strongly suspect the Alfa will not smash the lap record in it's road configuration. There isn't a hope in hell it ran standard dampers for that record time given that every review suggests it's softer than the M3/M4, and yet the way it bounces off kerbs and crests looks like it's running the same compression damping as a GT4 car....IbrahimLafayette said:
The roll cage is standard for the 2-seater configuration, which would make the car lighter than the 5-seater configuration.
Also JLR calling it a saloon record on twitter is a bit of a stretch in this configuration.
Still impressive that it beats the M4 GTS and is close to the Camaro ZL1.
I must admit to having a soft spot for JLR products (largely as they pay my wages most f the time) but IIRC this is LHD only. For that reason my theoretical money would be going the way of the Camaro ZL1 or probably more likely a GT350 and would no doubt cost a lot less, even in the UK. Also JLR calling it a saloon record on twitter is a bit of a stretch in this configuration.
Still impressive that it beats the M4 GTS and is close to the Camaro ZL1.
cheddar said:
The driver's jumping in his seat like a pogo stick with Parkinson's and the engine's just NNNNARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH
Hope it's more musical in reality
Great lap time though
I think that is because there are so many gears it spends most of the time between 5 and 6000rpm so you don't hear that much of a pitch change.Hope it's more musical in reality
Great lap time though
RacerMike said:
Tim16V said:
As above - irrelevant comparison of a prototype with the Giulia that actually exits for purchase today, will smash the lap record tomorrow and do the school run the following day.
I strongly suspect the Alfa will not smash the lap record in it's road configuration. There isn't a hope in hell it ran standard dampers for that record time given that every review suggests it's softer than the M3/M4, and yet the way it bounces off kerbs and crests looks like it's running the same compression damping as a GT4 car....I thought it was always referenced as completely different in demands to your average race track? Ie the setup for say silverstone would be much much stiffer?
urquattroGus said:
That sound like cobblers to me, I thought that you needed extra good damping and slightly softish suspension for the Nurburgring?
I thought it was always referenced as completely different in demands to your average race track? Ie the setup for say silverstone would be much much stiffer?
All things are relative. Any road car is still soft on track as the varied inputs on road, and requirements to have some sort of ride comfort mean that even a ‘stiff’ road car lacks control on track. I thought it was always referenced as completely different in demands to your average race track? Ie the setup for say silverstone would be much much stiffer?
You’re correct that the ‘Ring requires a softer setup on a racing car, but extra compression and rebound damping on a road car is still as relevant on the ‘Ring as it is on any other track, and a racing car in its softest setting is still way stiffer than any road car could possibly hope.
The key thing to need at the ‘Ring is a well controlled wheel and good control in compression. There are some massive inputs in a number of places, at high speed, and a lack of control can lead to heavy spring aid/bump stop interaction which can unsettle the car. This is particularly true at the bottom of Fuchsröhre and also the horrible bump on the entry to Ex Mulle which can throw the car sideways if you run out of travel. Stiffer compression damping also means you can run softer arb’s which allows each wheel to independently deal with the surface and unsettles the car less when hitting curbs mid corner.
All things are relative, of course, but plenty of very heavily damped (I.e. ‘stiff’) road cars have lapped the ‘Ring very successfully. You’d hardly say, for instance, that a Radical SR8 is known for its plush ride...
I of course, have no proof that the Alfa was fiddled with, but, given that the legend that is Horst Von Saurma did a 7min 52sec in a standard M4, the idea that the Alfa can lap a full 20sec faster on competitive (non Cup2 or Trofeo R) tyres with only 50bhp extra is frankly ludicrous. The fact it takes a car with 600 bhp and 4wd to go 11sec faster than the Alfa time should tell you all you need to know....
I think it's a great "just because we can" car. Not that it is better than anything else or that it detracts from anything else. There are faster cars, there are cheaper cars and there are better track cars. It's still quite a cool exercise to see what potential that XE chassis has though. The cooking model 2.0d I drove was all the wrong spec for me but I thought it was a very nice handling car with a good blend of ride quality but still didn't wee all over any attempt to enjoy it in a corner.
The fact that they are pretty much all of the Project 8s are pre-sold out suggests that at least the right number of people (and potentially many more, perhaps just without the cash) agree that it's a great "just because we can" car.
The fact that they are pretty much all of the Project 8s are pre-sold out suggests that at least the right number of people (and potentially many more, perhaps just without the cash) agree that it's a great "just because we can" car.
RacerMike said:
All things are relative. Any road car is still soft on track as the varied inputs on road, and requirements to have some sort of ride comfort mean that even a ‘stiff’ road car lacks control on track.
You’re correct that the ‘Ring requires a softer setup on a racing car, but extra compression and rebound damping on a road car is still as relevant on the ‘Ring as it is on any other track, and a racing car in its softest setting is still way stiffer than any road car could possibly hope.
The key thing to need at the ‘Ring is a well controlled wheel and good control in compression. There are some massive inputs in a number of places, at high speed, and a lack of control can lead to heavy spring aid/bump stop interaction which can unsettle the car. This is particularly true at the bottom of Fuchsröhre and also the horrible bump on the entry to Ex Mulle which can throw the car sideways if you run out of travel. Stiffer compression damping also means you can run softer arb’s which allows each wheel to independently deal with the surface and unsettles the car less when hitting curbs mid corner.
All things are relative, of course, but plenty of very heavily damped (I.e. ‘stiff’) road cars have lapped the ‘Ring very successfully. You’d hardly say, for instance, that a Radical SR8 is known for its plush ride...
I of course, have no proof that the Alfa was fiddled with, but, given that the legend that is Horst Von Saurma did a 7min 52sec in a standard M4, the idea that the Alfa can lap a full 20sec faster on competitive (non Cup2 or Trofeo R) tyres with only 50bhp extra is frankly ludicrous. The fact it takes a car with 600 bhp and 4wd to go 11sec faster than the Alfa time should tell you all you need to know....
I agree, the Alfa time is not a standard car you buy, guaranteed. It’s somehow faster round the ‘ring than loads of cars yet when tested at different tracks (ie real cars not some ring track special) it’s slower. You’re correct that the ‘Ring requires a softer setup on a racing car, but extra compression and rebound damping on a road car is still as relevant on the ‘Ring as it is on any other track, and a racing car in its softest setting is still way stiffer than any road car could possibly hope.
The key thing to need at the ‘Ring is a well controlled wheel and good control in compression. There are some massive inputs in a number of places, at high speed, and a lack of control can lead to heavy spring aid/bump stop interaction which can unsettle the car. This is particularly true at the bottom of Fuchsröhre and also the horrible bump on the entry to Ex Mulle which can throw the car sideways if you run out of travel. Stiffer compression damping also means you can run softer arb’s which allows each wheel to independently deal with the surface and unsettles the car less when hitting curbs mid corner.
All things are relative, of course, but plenty of very heavily damped (I.e. ‘stiff’) road cars have lapped the ‘Ring very successfully. You’d hardly say, for instance, that a Radical SR8 is known for its plush ride...
I of course, have no proof that the Alfa was fiddled with, but, given that the legend that is Horst Von Saurma did a 7min 52sec in a standard M4, the idea that the Alfa can lap a full 20sec faster on competitive (non Cup2 or Trofeo R) tyres with only 50bhp extra is frankly ludicrous. The fact it takes a car with 600 bhp and 4wd to go 11sec faster than the Alfa time should tell you all you need to know....
Of course Alfa aren’t alone at this is so all these times need to be taken with a pinch of salt.
akadk said:
Lambo FirstBlood said:
I’ve got one of these on order so would happily share what SVO have shared with me and answer any questions I can.
What I can say is that they have confirmed there will be no “regular” V8 version of the XE, so no XER.
But there will be an XE SVR in 2019What I can say is that they have confirmed there will be no “regular” V8 version of the XE, so no XER.
Since ordering, they sent a Jaguar Racing driver to take me and the other chap who has a car in order from the same dealership, out for a drive (in an F-Type SVR mind, not in a P8) and he confirmed the same.
Lambo FirstBlood said:
Not according to chaps at SVO. When I ordered, I spoke to them directly, and they said categorically there will not be. Part of the reason behind project 8 being so far removed from the regular XE is getting that engine in that Bay is very difficult and expensive hence Project 8.
Since ordering, they sent a Jaguar Racing driver to take me and the other chap who has a car in order from the same dealership, out for a drive (in an F-Type SVR mind, not in a P8) and he confirmed the same.
Or they have used that small project to overcome and engineer those problems and there will be a regular one.Since ordering, they sent a Jaguar Racing driver to take me and the other chap who has a car in order from the same dealership, out for a drive (in an F-Type SVR mind, not in a P8) and he confirmed the same.
I suppose maybe it's missed the boat though and we'll get some sort of crappy hybrid.
urquattroGus said:
Or they have used that small project to overcome and engineer those problems and there will be a regular one.
There’s a difference between overcoming for a run of 300 bespoke cars vs overcoming for mass production. The headlights won’t have been moved forward just for fun, and they’re all LHD because of restrictions in powertrain and transmission packaging. Those issues will be intrinsic to that platform and powertrain combo.RB Will said:
What record is this claiming? Its not a production or road car yet so cant have that one and if its just fastest 4 door then Subaru have that one at 6.57
I think there's been some stuff lost in translation. This is a pre production prototype, in a similar way to most of the cars used in records by manufacturers. It will be to the design intent of the production car, but made as a prototype (i.e. by hand). RacerMike said:
All things are relative. Any road car is still soft on track as the varied inputs on road, and requirements to have some sort of ride comfort mean that even a ‘stiff’ road car lacks control on track.
You’re correct that the ‘Ring requires a softer setup on a racing car, but extra compression and rebound damping on a road car is still as relevant on the ‘Ring as it is on any other track, and a racing car in its softest setting is still way stiffer than any road car could possibly hope.
The key thing to need at the ‘Ring is a well controlled wheel and good control in compression. There are some massive inputs in a number of places, at high speed, and a lack of control can lead to heavy spring aid/bump stop interaction which can unsettle the car. This is particularly true at the bottom of Fuchsröhre and also the horrible bump on the entry to Ex Mulle which can throw the car sideways if you run out of travel. Stiffer compression damping also means you can run softer arb’s which allows each wheel to independently deal with the surface and unsettles the car less when hitting curbs mid corner.
All things are relative, of course, but plenty of very heavily damped (I.e. ‘stiff’) road cars have lapped the ‘Ring very successfully. You’d hardly say, for instance, that a Radical SR8 is known for its plush ride...
I of course, have no proof that the Alfa was fiddled with, but, given that the legend that is Horst Von Saurma did a 7min 52sec in a standard M4, the idea that the Alfa can lap a full 20sec faster on competitive (non Cup2 or Trofeo R) tyres with only 50bhp extra is frankly ludicrous. The fact it takes a car with 600 bhp and 4wd to go 11sec faster than the Alfa time should tell you all you need to know....
According to google the M4 GTS set a ring time of 7.28.You’re correct that the ‘Ring requires a softer setup on a racing car, but extra compression and rebound damping on a road car is still as relevant on the ‘Ring as it is on any other track, and a racing car in its softest setting is still way stiffer than any road car could possibly hope.
The key thing to need at the ‘Ring is a well controlled wheel and good control in compression. There are some massive inputs in a number of places, at high speed, and a lack of control can lead to heavy spring aid/bump stop interaction which can unsettle the car. This is particularly true at the bottom of Fuchsröhre and also the horrible bump on the entry to Ex Mulle which can throw the car sideways if you run out of travel. Stiffer compression damping also means you can run softer arb’s which allows each wheel to independently deal with the surface and unsettles the car less when hitting curbs mid corner.
All things are relative, of course, but plenty of very heavily damped (I.e. ‘stiff’) road cars have lapped the ‘Ring very successfully. You’d hardly say, for instance, that a Radical SR8 is known for its plush ride...
I of course, have no proof that the Alfa was fiddled with, but, given that the legend that is Horst Von Saurma did a 7min 52sec in a standard M4, the idea that the Alfa can lap a full 20sec faster on competitive (non Cup2 or Trofeo R) tyres with only 50bhp extra is frankly ludicrous. The fact it takes a car with 600 bhp and 4wd to go 11sec faster than the Alfa time should tell you all you need to know....
Google also says the M4 CS set a time of 7.38.
So its not hard to believe the Alfa, a car with 50 more horsepower than the M4 CS is 6 seconds faster over 12 miles.
Im impressed this Jag did 11 seconds faster on a presumably cold day in November. I suspect that on a warm day it will be faster still.
Edited by Ruskins on Thursday 30th November 15:59
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