RE: Alfa Romeo returns to Formula 1

[yellowstreak]

Will this make F1 exciting enough to start watching again?

[Ardennes92]

Don't think so if it means paying murdoch for the privilege

[DeltaEvo2]

Great news! Alfa 1st, Ferrari 2nd...

[_Leg_]

NJ72 said:

Soo... Essentially still Sauber Ferrari, just a different logo on the nose cone...

That's how it's been in F1from the outset. Many of the teams on the grid are re branded and re managed older teams. Mercedes were born of Brawn, Red Bull from Jaguar, Lotus Renault (Constructor Renault) turned into Lotus (Constructor Lotus) and now Renault (Constructor Renault) but were the same team throughout for the most part.

Even Ferrari were born of Alfa Romeo as Enzo managed the Alfa team until Alfa pulled out and at various stages Scuderia Alfa Romeo ran Alfas with Ferrari badges on and Scuderia Ferrari ran the remnants of the Alfa cars with Ferrari badges on too.

I may be wrong but Williams might actually be the only 'pure' team (started as Williams, always been Williams) on the grid today?

[Tony33]

_Leg_ said:

I may be wrong but Williams might actually be the only 'pure' team (started as Williams, always been Williams) on the grid today?

I would have thought McLaren had a similar status?

[Plinth]

_Leg_ said:

That's how it's been in F1from the outset. Many of the teams on the grid are re branded and re managed older teams. Mercedes were born of Brawn, Red Bull from Jaguar, Lotus Renault (Constructor Renault) turned into Lotus (Constructor Lotus) and now Renault (Constructor Renault) but were the same team throughout for the most part.

Even Ferrari were born of Alfa Romeo as Enzo managed the Alfa team until Alfa pulled out and at various stages Scuderia Alfa Romeo ran Alfas with Ferrari badges on and Scuderia Ferrari ran the remnants of the Alfa cars with Ferrari badges on too.

I may be wrong but Williams might actually be the only 'pure' team (started as Williams, always been Williams) on the grid today?

Frank Williams Racing Cars started in 1967 and ran various March cars (under different sponsors and names) and had a tie-up with Wolf for a while.
Williams Grand Prix Engineering from 1977 has always had "Williams" in the name of the car, I believe, along with any sponsors at the time.

[MCBrowncoat]

So....Slim possibility of the classic Alfa Martini being revived.....Superb... I'm just annoyed the cars next year will look st anyway what with that there scaffolding around the drivers head....

[MawsleyCarValeting]

_Leg_ said:

That's how it's been in F1from the outset. Many of the teams on the grid are re branded and re managed older teams. Mercedes were born of Brawn, Red Bull from Jaguar, Lotus Renault (Constructor Renault) turned into Lotus (Constructor Lotus) and now Renault (Constructor Renault) but were the same team throughout for the most part.

Even Ferrari were born of Alfa Romeo as Enzo managed the Alfa team until Alfa pulled out and at various stages Scuderia Alfa Romeo ran Alfas with Ferrari badges on and Scuderia Ferrari ran the remnants of the Alfa cars with Ferrari badges on too.

I may be wrong but Williams might actually be the only 'pure' team (started as Williams, always been Williams) on the grid today?

[Yipper]

Suspect it will be less pretty than hoped, electrics flashing on and off without warning, followed by a breakdown on lap 2

[davebem]

Im glad Alfa are back, now they need to do something controversial and get up to their old tricks again to make it interesting, such as the 'fan car' , or when they supplied homologated road cars with adjustable spoilers ;-)

[ArnageWRC]

Basically just badge engineering; would much prefer them to join one of the other major series. F1 can crow about another Manufacturer joining.

[fbc]

Tom_The_Light_House said:

That is what i thought.

There must be a legal / financial reason for this ?

It would be like having a VW team and a Porsche team.
At the end of the day they are still the same company.

It's a political power play:
http://www.racer.com/f1/item/146022-insight-unpack...

[_Leg_]

Tony33 said:

_Leg_ said:

I may be wrong but Williams might actually be the only 'pure' team (started as Williams, always been Williams) on the grid today?

I would have thought McLaren had a similar status?

Aye, that sounds right too. Given the other response to my post in fact McLaren are probably the purest team out there.

Most teams come out of other teams. A few didn't. Ferrari did and they're the longest surviving team (obviously) so the precedent was set.

To be fair to Alfa, they were one of the teams that started it all. As the owner of a sixties Alfa (they made some stunning stuff in the old days) and a huge fan of Italy in general I'm pleased to see their name return.

If you (anyone reading) hasn't read histories of how Ferrari got going, how F1 got going and the whole era around motor racing starting, you're missing some fascinating stuff.

[Vocal Minority]

_Leg_ said:

That's how it's been in F1from the outset. Many of the teams on the grid are re branded and re managed older teams. Mercedes were born of Brawn, Red Bull from Jaguar, Lotus Renault (Constructor Renault) turned into Lotus (Constructor Lotus) and now Renault (Constructor Renault) but were the same team throughout for the most part.

Of the teams currently on the grid from now to origin

Mercedes - Brawn - Honda - BAR - Tyrell

Ferrari

Red Bull - Jaguar - Stewart

Force India - Spyker - Midland - Jordan

Williams

Renault - Lotus F1 - Renault - Benetton - Toleman

Torro Rosso - Minardi

Haas

McLaren

Alfa Sauber - Sauber - BMW Sauber - Sauber

So the teams that have not changed hands are Ferrari, Williams, McLaren, Haas (ok they are new but within the definitions) and I would still argue Sauber.

I know people have alluded to the fact that Ferrari ran the works Alfa effort in the thirties and then his own cars as well - in the Formula One World Championship the cars have only been Ferrari cars, built in the Ferrari factory.

If you are looking at Henry Smith's history running Alfa's -you then need to consider Frank Williams Racing Cars Limited - which prepared all sorts of other cars for customers before building its own and eventually being bought out by Walter Wolf.

Its an incestuous old business

Edited by Vocal Minority on Thursday 30th November 06:02

[Oz83]

Gemaeden said:

Why get Martini from Williams? Why not get sponsored by Parmalat as in the accompanying photo?

Will they take Martini from Williams? Can't see that in any of the press releases.

It looks like Ericssons F1 days are over. Doubt Alfa Sauber will need his money/deal with FIAT behind them. I'm sure they would prefer to have an Italian at the wheel, it's not like Sweden is a major market for F1 or Alfa.

[coppice]

Re McLaren - yes , but remember that old McLaren, as founded by Bruce and carried on by Teddy Mayer et al , was effectively merged with Ron Dennis Project 4 in 80, 81 . And Williams has had various iterations too -originally FW with Piers Courage , then mediocrity for a few years, dalliance with Iso and then , effectively , a disastrous marriage with Walter Wolf . Only after their divorce did Williams as we know it now come into existence .

But of them all , I think the Lotus saga, post 'real Lotus' demise in early Nineties is the most convoluted and to a Chapman fan like me , the most tragic .

[LordGrover]

Vocal Minority said:

Torro Rosso - Minardi

Wasn't Arrows something to do with Minardi?

[Vocal Minority]

Don't think so.

Arrows were called Footwork for a period (as a branding exercise), but that's all I can think of.

Did they turn into anyone or just fall off the planet?

[coppice]

And , of course , Shadow begat Arrows . Not that Shadow was overpleased with its progeny, taking it to court for nicking its designs.

[Vitorio]

davebem said:

Im glad Alfa are back, now they need to do something controversial and get up to their old tricks again to make it interesting, such as the 'fan car' , or when they supplied homologated road cars with adjustable spoilers ;-)

Or you know, launch a DTM campaign based on the giulia