RE: JDM supercar shootout: Time For Coffee
Discussion
rb26 said:
cib24 said:
HAHAHAHAHA!
That Clio is not in the same league in any way, shape or form.
Not saying it is. But as something desirable, unique and special? It's right up there. Will they ever put a mid-mounted V6 in a shopping trolley with RWD again? Thought not..... That Clio is not in the same league in any way, shape or form.
SonicShadow said:
Gandahar said:
I'll have a Z tune one please, I think I would lust over that more than an F40. It's just the ultimate Skyline.....
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/nissan/gt-r-n...
R33 LM is the ultimate IMO:https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/nissan/gt-r-n...
rb26 said:
£50K on a nearly 20 year old tuner car? I'm not so sure. For that kind of money you could buy a excellent PH1 or PH2 Clio V6 and have £15-20k left over.
Except it's not a tuner car, is it? It's the ultimate evolution of the Skyline. You may not like it, but it is something special. Is a GT3 RS a tuner car because it has skirts and spoilers?
The Clio is a great car, but I know which one I would choose. But we don't all have to like the same things luckily :-)
rb26 said:
£50K on a nearly 20 year old tuner car? I'm not so sure. For that kind of money you could buy a excellent PH1 or PH2 Clio V6 and have £15-20k left over.
Besides the fact they are very different cars, the Clio V6 is more overpriced at 30k than a GTR is at 50k in my opinion, as a R32GTR owner and someone who has owned two Clio 182s and driven V6 Phase 1 and 2 Clios extensively on road and a couple of times on circuit the Clio especially the phase 1s are majorly dynamically flawed cars. Any of the GTRs are better in any measurable way than the Clios. Don't get me wrong I really like phase 2 V6s (Sorry to phase 1 owners but they are very poorly made in comparison with pop riveted on body kits, dodgy gearboxes and shocking handling - that's why Renault took them back in house for the Phase 2) . The GTRs are high quality engineered cars with bullet proof mechanicals, ground breaking electronics, superb handling, excellent build quality, the most successful completion car of all time and a world wide icon. Clio would have been a long way last in that video despite being 5 years newer than any of them. Clio has a lot of character and is good fun but to compare to what is generally regarded as one of the greatest cars of all time is ridiculous.hondansx said:
That video demonstrates how under appreciated the RX7 is.
As you may be able to tell, i'm a big NSX fan, but you can't help but be impressed by the RX7 RS being the fastest car in that group.
Yup. It was always a car in the Best Motoring shows that would finish 2nd or 3rd in each race behind the NSX but after the 99 spec update it just obliterated everything in their tests except in the wet where the Evo and Subie would beat everything easily. The RX-7 also won Best Motoring's endurance challenge in 1999 where they pitted these exact cars in this video together for two 1 hour endurance races and monitored oil and water temps. The FD outlasted them all as the 99 spec changes ensured temps never went into the danger zone. As you may be able to tell, i'm a big NSX fan, but you can't help but be impressed by the RX7 RS being the fastest car in that group.
I love my 99 RS.
hondansx said:
That video demonstrates how under appreciated the RX7 is.
As you may be able to tell, i'm a big NSX fan, but you can't help but be impressed by the RX7 RS being the fastest car in that group.
Much as I like the RX7 too I wouldn't read too much into it. The Best Motoring videos while lots of fun and awesome in the number of cars they manage to get on track, aren't really indicative of a cars true performance. As you may be able to tell, i'm a big NSX fan, but you can't help but be impressed by the RX7 RS being the fastest car in that group.
For a start the skill of the drivers is often very variable. There is also a very definite bias towards some cars, especially Japanese ones. They often pit them against European cars but I've never seen a non Japanese car win a race yet so unfortunately like Top Gear, the "races" are a little bit staged.
Still great to watch and as I said I have to take my hat of to any program that can get an F40, F50, Mclaren F1, Jag XJ220, various Porsches and Lambo's all on a race track at the same time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxTu80ZO3Uo
Guvernator said:
hondansx said:
That video demonstrates how under appreciated the RX7 is.
As you may be able to tell, i'm a big NSX fan, but you can't help but be impressed by the RX7 RS being the fastest car in that group.
Much as I like the RX7 too I wouldn't read too much into it. The Best Motoring videos while lots of fun and awesome in the number of cars they manage to get on track, aren't really indicative of a cars true performance. As you may be able to tell, i'm a big NSX fan, but you can't help but be impressed by the RX7 RS being the fastest car in that group.
For a start the skill of the drivers is often very variable. There is also a very definite bias towards some cars, especially Japanese ones. They often pit them against European cars but I've never seen a non Japanese car win a race yet so unfortunately like Top Gear, the "races" are a little bit staged.
Still great to watch and as I said I have to take my hat of to any program that can get an F40, F50, Mclaren F1, Jag XJ220, various Porsches and Lambo's all on a race track at the same time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxTu80ZO3Uo
I have that on VideoCD.
As has been said, the variability of the drivers and the inherent bias towards certain models means they aren't hugely relevant in determining absolute performance, but it was great to see them going for it on track in road-spec machinery. Just which I understood the Japanese banter, they always seemed to be needling each other.
As has been said, the variability of the drivers and the inherent bias towards certain models means they aren't hugely relevant in determining absolute performance, but it was great to see them going for it on track in road-spec machinery. Just which I understood the Japanese banter, they always seemed to be needling each other.
Notanotherturbo said:
Don't get me wrong I really like phase 2 V6s (Sorry to phase 1 owners but they are very poorly made in comparison with pop riveted on body kits, dodgy gearboxes and shocking handling - that's why Renault took them back in house for the Phase 2) .
The panels are not pop riveted on. The gearbox is the same box on both ph1 and ph2 - albeit the ratios and the shifter throw length where changed. And Renault didn't build the ph2 in house because of the handling. The ph2 was still developed by the same team at TWR who developed the ph1. If TWR had of had enough time there would of likely only ever been the 1 variant of car.Never driven a skyline, but they are a totally different beast to the Clio for sure. I imagine the Skyline is a lot easier to drive at 9/10ths!
There were also at least 20 times more Skylines produced than there are Clios!
cib24 said:
hondansx said:
That video demonstrates how under appreciated the RX7 is.
As you may be able to tell, i'm a big NSX fan, but you can't help but be impressed by the RX7 RS being the fastest car in that group.
Yup. It was always a car in the Best Motoring shows that would finish 2nd or 3rd in each race behind the NSX but after the 99 spec update it just obliterated everything in their tests except in the wet where the Evo and Subie would beat everything easily. The RX-7 also won Best Motoring's endurance challenge in 1999 where they pitted these exact cars in this video together for two 1 hour endurance races and monitored oil and water temps. The FD outlasted them all as the 99 spec changes ensured temps never went into the danger zone. As you may be able to tell, i'm a big NSX fan, but you can't help but be impressed by the RX7 RS being the fastest car in that group.
I love my 99 RS.
As for obliterating everything the fastest lap I recall from normal JDM cars (before the R35 GTR rocked up) was the Impreza knocking in mid 1.04 at Tsukuba which was comparable to the McLaren F1!
I am an RX-7 fan, just saying what I see though.
It's hard to find truly accurate times. There are loads of BMI videos and Tsukuba was obviously used a lot.
Strangely, I can't find a lap time of the RX7 RS outside of that video. And the cars in the video posted achieved different laptimes than the list below! Still fun to compare though...
Porsche 911 GT3 RS (991) 1:00.70
Nissan Nismo R34 Z-Tune 1:01.15
Nissan GT-R Nismo (R35) 1:01.32
Ferrari F40 1:03.95
Nissan NISMO 400R 1:04.00
Porsche 911 Turbo (997) 1:04.12
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII RS 1:04.15
Porsche 911 GT2 (993) 1:04.25
Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) 1:04.51
McLaren F1 1:04.62
Honda NSX-R (3.2) 1:04.95
Subaru Impreza RA SPEC C 1:04.95
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R33) 1:05.00
Honda NSX Type-S Zero 1:05.17
Ferrari 360 Modena 1:05.25
Porsche 911 GT3 (996 facelift) 1:05.29
Ferrari F355 1:05.61
Subaru Impreza STI Spec C 1:05.61
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R34) 1:06.00
Mitsubishi EVO X MR SST 1:06.00
Honda NSX-R (3.0) 1:06.01
Porsche Cayman S (981) 1:06.01
RUF CTR Yellow Bird 1:06.12
Mazda RX-7 (280 PS) 1:06.36
TVR Tamora 1:06.41
Nissan Nismo 370Z 1:06.64
BMW M3 CSL (E46) 1:06.88
Strangely, I can't find a lap time of the RX7 RS outside of that video. And the cars in the video posted achieved different laptimes than the list below! Still fun to compare though...
Porsche 911 GT3 RS (991) 1:00.70
Nissan Nismo R34 Z-Tune 1:01.15
Nissan GT-R Nismo (R35) 1:01.32
Ferrari F40 1:03.95
Nissan NISMO 400R 1:04.00
Porsche 911 Turbo (997) 1:04.12
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII RS 1:04.15
Porsche 911 GT2 (993) 1:04.25
Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) 1:04.51
McLaren F1 1:04.62
Honda NSX-R (3.2) 1:04.95
Subaru Impreza RA SPEC C 1:04.95
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R33) 1:05.00
Honda NSX Type-S Zero 1:05.17
Ferrari 360 Modena 1:05.25
Porsche 911 GT3 (996 facelift) 1:05.29
Ferrari F355 1:05.61
Subaru Impreza STI Spec C 1:05.61
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R34) 1:06.00
Mitsubishi EVO X MR SST 1:06.00
Honda NSX-R (3.0) 1:06.01
Porsche Cayman S (981) 1:06.01
RUF CTR Yellow Bird 1:06.12
Mazda RX-7 (280 PS) 1:06.36
TVR Tamora 1:06.41
Nissan Nismo 370Z 1:06.64
BMW M3 CSL (E46) 1:06.88
hondansx said:
It's hard to find truly accurate times. There are loads of BMI videos and Tsukuba was obviously used a lot.
Strangely, I can't find a lap time of the RX7 RS outside of that video. And the cars in the video posted achieved different laptimes than the list below! Still fun to compare though...
Porsche 911 GT3 RS (991) 1:00.70
Nissan Nismo R34 Z-Tune 1:01.15
Nissan GT-R Nismo (R35) 1:01.32
Ferrari F40 1:03.95
Nissan NISMO 400R 1:04.00
Porsche 911 Turbo (997) 1:04.12
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII RS 1:04.15
Porsche 911 GT2 (993) 1:04.25
Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) 1:04.51
McLaren F1 1:04.62
Honda NSX-R (3.2) 1:04.95
Subaru Impreza RA SPEC C 1:04.95
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R33) 1:05.00
Honda NSX Type-S Zero 1:05.17
Ferrari 360 Modena 1:05.25
Porsche 911 GT3 (996 facelift) 1:05.29
Ferrari F355 1:05.61
Subaru Impreza STI Spec C 1:05.61
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R34) 1:06.00
Mitsubishi EVO X MR SST 1:06.00
Honda NSX-R (3.0) 1:06.01
Porsche Cayman S (981) 1:06.01
RUF CTR Yellow Bird 1:06.12
Mazda RX-7 (280 PS) 1:06.36
TVR Tamora 1:06.41
Nissan Nismo 370Z 1:06.64
BMW M3 CSL (E46) 1:06.88
Where are you getting the list from? just for example there are a few on there that are faster than listed. The Impreza Spec C I mentioned was 1.04.49 and not 1.05.61 and the R34 in the video that started this topic was in the 1.05s.Strangely, I can't find a lap time of the RX7 RS outside of that video. And the cars in the video posted achieved different laptimes than the list below! Still fun to compare though...
Porsche 911 GT3 RS (991) 1:00.70
Nissan Nismo R34 Z-Tune 1:01.15
Nissan GT-R Nismo (R35) 1:01.32
Ferrari F40 1:03.95
Nissan NISMO 400R 1:04.00
Porsche 911 Turbo (997) 1:04.12
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII RS 1:04.15
Porsche 911 GT2 (993) 1:04.25
Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) 1:04.51
McLaren F1 1:04.62
Honda NSX-R (3.2) 1:04.95
Subaru Impreza RA SPEC C 1:04.95
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R33) 1:05.00
Honda NSX Type-S Zero 1:05.17
Ferrari 360 Modena 1:05.25
Porsche 911 GT3 (996 facelift) 1:05.29
Ferrari F355 1:05.61
Subaru Impreza STI Spec C 1:05.61
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R34) 1:06.00
Mitsubishi EVO X MR SST 1:06.00
Honda NSX-R (3.0) 1:06.01
Porsche Cayman S (981) 1:06.01
RUF CTR Yellow Bird 1:06.12
Mazda RX-7 (280 PS) 1:06.36
TVR Tamora 1:06.41
Nissan Nismo 370Z 1:06.64
BMW M3 CSL (E46) 1:06.88
What the list does show is that the cars are all pretty close in performance and that a difference in driver would be bigger than a difference in car for most people
loudlashadjuster said:
RB Will said:
What the list does show is that the cars are all pretty close in performance...
What the list does show is that the BM times are almost total nonsense. FTFY
Unless we are all happy that an Evo VIII is quicker than a McLaren F1?!
All these show is that they are all comparable cars - the result will vary depending upon driver, tyres etc
The question should be why do comparable cars have such wildly different prices ?
I know it's supply and demand but is the demand for the rarer car, the better investment or the better car ?
The question should be why do comparable cars have such wildly different prices ?
I know it's supply and demand but is the demand for the rarer car, the better investment or the better car ?
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