RE: JDM supercar shootout: Time For Coffee

RE: JDM supercar shootout: Time For Coffee

Author
Discussion

dannyDC2

6,911 posts

99 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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SonicShadow said:
R33 LM is the ultimate[/img]
ultimate wheel arch gap?

selym

5,654 posts

102 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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rb26 said:
cib24 said:
HAHAHAHAHA!

That Clio is not in the same league in any way, shape or form.
Not saying it is. But as something desirable, unique and special? It's right up there. Will they ever put a mid-mounted V6 in a shopping trolley with RWD again? Thought not.....
You want to buy Edd China's motorised sofa. They won't be putting another motor in a sofa any time soon.

Guvernator

8,328 posts

96 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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SonicShadow said:
Gandahar said:
I'll have a Z tune one please, I think I would lust over that more than an F40. It's just the ultimate Skyline.....

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/nissan/gt-r-n...
R33 LM is the ultimate IMO:

Both lovely cars, unfortunately both well into 6 figures too now due to the current classic car bubble with the last Z for sale hitting half a million dollars if I'm not mistaken. The original £84k asking price which raised lots of questions of "how much for a Nissan?" doesn't seem so ridiculous now.

Futse

115 posts

116 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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rb26 said:
£50K on a nearly 20 year old tuner car? I'm not so sure. For that kind of money you could buy a excellent PH1 or PH2 Clio V6 and have £15-20k left over.
Except it's not a tuner car, is it? It's the ultimate evolution of the Skyline. You may not like it, but it is something special.
Is a GT3 RS a tuner car because it has skirts and spoilers?
The Clio is a great car, but I know which one I would choose. But we don't all have to like the same things luckily :-)

hondansx

3,143 posts

156 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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That video demonstrates how under appreciated the RX7 is.

As you may be able to tell, i'm a big NSX fan, but you can't help but be impressed by the RX7 RS being the fastest car in that group.
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markcoznottz

4,475 posts

155 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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BuzzBravado said:
Best Motoring was great entertainment, even if they were biased in the battles.
The f40 -f50 video was good. The f50 was running a decat ms racing exhaust and sounded unreal.

Notanotherturbo

281 posts

138 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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rb26 said:
£50K on a nearly 20 year old tuner car? I'm not so sure. For that kind of money you could buy a excellent PH1 or PH2 Clio V6 and have £15-20k left over.
Besides the fact they are very different cars, the Clio V6 is more overpriced at 30k than a GTR is at 50k in my opinion, as a R32GTR owner and someone who has owned two Clio 182s and driven V6 Phase 1 and 2 Clios extensively on road and a couple of times on circuit the Clio especially the phase 1s are majorly dynamically flawed cars. Any of the GTRs are better in any measurable way than the Clios. Don't get me wrong I really like phase 2 V6s (Sorry to phase 1 owners but they are very poorly made in comparison with pop riveted on body kits, dodgy gearboxes and shocking handling - that's why Renault took them back in house for the Phase 2) . The GTRs are high quality engineered cars with bullet proof mechanicals, ground breaking electronics, superb handling, excellent build quality, the most successful completion car of all time and a world wide icon. Clio would have been a long way last in that video despite being 5 years newer than any of them. Clio has a lot of character and is good fun but to compare to what is generally regarded as one of the greatest cars of all time is ridiculous.

cib24

611 posts

84 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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hondansx said:
That video demonstrates how under appreciated the RX7 is.

As you may be able to tell, i'm a big NSX fan, but you can't help but be impressed by the RX7 RS being the fastest car in that group.
Yup. It was always a car in the Best Motoring shows that would finish 2nd or 3rd in each race behind the NSX but after the 99 spec update it just obliterated everything in their tests except in the wet where the Evo and Subie would beat everything easily. The RX-7 also won Best Motoring's endurance challenge in 1999 where they pitted these exact cars in this video together for two 1 hour endurance races and monitored oil and water temps. The FD outlasted them all as the 99 spec changes ensured temps never went into the danger zone.

I love my 99 RS.

Guvernator

8,328 posts

96 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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hondansx said:
That video demonstrates how under appreciated the RX7 is.

As you may be able to tell, i'm a big NSX fan, but you can't help but be impressed by the RX7 RS being the fastest car in that group.
Much as I like the RX7 too I wouldn't read too much into it. The Best Motoring videos while lots of fun and awesome in the number of cars they manage to get on track, aren't really indicative of a cars true performance.

For a start the skill of the drivers is often very variable. There is also a very definite bias towards some cars, especially Japanese ones. They often pit them against European cars but I've never seen a non Japanese car win a race yet so unfortunately like Top Gear, the "races" are a little bit staged.

Still great to watch and as I said I have to take my hat of to any program that can get an F40, F50, Mclaren F1, Jag XJ220, various Porsches and Lambo's all on a race track at the same time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxTu80ZO3Uo

markcoznottz

4,475 posts

155 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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Guvernator said:
hondansx said:
That video demonstrates how under appreciated the RX7 is.

As you may be able to tell, i'm a big NSX fan, but you can't help but be impressed by the RX7 RS being the fastest car in that group.
Much as I like the RX7 too I wouldn't read too much into it. The Best Motoring videos while lots of fun and awesome in the number of cars they manage to get on track, aren't really indicative of a cars true performance.

For a start the skill of the drivers is often very variable. There is also a very definite bias towards some cars, especially Japanese ones. They often pit them against European cars but I've never seen a non Japanese car win a race yet so unfortunately like Top Gear, the "races" are a little bit staged.

Still great to watch and as I said I have to take my hat of to any program that can get an F40, F50, Mclaren F1, Jag XJ220, various Porsches and Lambo's all on a race track at the same time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxTu80ZO3Uo
That's the one! Turn your speakers up....

SonicShadow

2,137 posts

85 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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dannyDC2 said:
ultimate wheel arch gap?
I guess they weren't too worried about 'perfect stance' as it was only made so they could homologate it for racing!


loudlashadjuster

3,026 posts

115 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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I have that on VideoCD.

As has been said, the variability of the drivers and the inherent bias towards certain models means they aren't hugely relevant in determining absolute performance, but it was great to see them going for it on track in road-spec machinery. Just which I understood the Japanese banter, they always seemed to be needling each other.

Ddouble

78 posts

118 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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Notanotherturbo said:
Don't get me wrong I really like phase 2 V6s (Sorry to phase 1 owners but they are very poorly made in comparison with pop riveted on body kits, dodgy gearboxes and shocking handling - that's why Renault took them back in house for the Phase 2) .
The panels are not pop riveted on. The gearbox is the same box on both ph1 and ph2 - albeit the ratios and the shifter throw length where changed. And Renault didn't build the ph2 in house because of the handling. The ph2 was still developed by the same team at TWR who developed the ph1. If TWR had of had enough time there would of likely only ever been the 1 variant of car.

Never driven a skyline, but they are a totally different beast to the Clio for sure. I imagine the Skyline is a lot easier to drive at 9/10ths!

There were also at least 20 times more Skylines produced than there are Clios!

ChawenHalo

55 posts

60 months

Friday 1st December 2017
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90's Japanese top cars really were at their finest. Very impressed at little the RX7 performance. Beautiful car, goes like stink even in these conditions. Would pay top dollar now for any of these or hot hatches like Civic EK9 + tuner cars like Spoon.

RB Will

5,219 posts

171 months

Friday 1st December 2017
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cib24 said:
hondansx said:
That video demonstrates how under appreciated the RX7 is.

As you may be able to tell, i'm a big NSX fan, but you can't help but be impressed by the RX7 RS being the fastest car in that group.
Yup. It was always a car in the Best Motoring shows that would finish 2nd or 3rd in each race behind the NSX but after the 99 spec update it just obliterated everything in their tests except in the wet where the Evo and Subie would beat everything easily. The RX-7 also won Best Motoring's endurance challenge in 1999 where they pitted these exact cars in this video together for two 1 hour endurance races and monitored oil and water temps. The FD outlasted them all as the 99 spec changes ensured temps never went into the danger zone.

I love my 99 RS.
The RX-7 wasn't the fastest in that race or the time attack, the R34 was over half a sec a lap quicker in both.
As for obliterating everything the fastest lap I recall from normal JDM cars (before the R35 GTR rocked up) was the Impreza knocking in mid 1.04 at Tsukuba which was comparable to the McLaren F1!
I am an RX-7 fan, just saying what I see though.

hondansx

3,143 posts

156 months

Friday 1st December 2017
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It's hard to find truly accurate times. There are loads of BMI videos and Tsukuba was obviously used a lot.

Strangely, I can't find a lap time of the RX7 RS outside of that video. And the cars in the video posted achieved different laptimes than the list below! Still fun to compare though...

Porsche 911 GT3 RS (991) 1:00.70
Nissan Nismo R34 Z-Tune 1:01.15
Nissan GT-R Nismo (R35) 1:01.32
Ferrari F40 1:03.95
Nissan NISMO 400R 1:04.00
Porsche 911 Turbo (997) 1:04.12
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII RS 1:04.15
Porsche 911 GT2 (993) 1:04.25
Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) 1:04.51
McLaren F1 1:04.62
Honda NSX-R (3.2) 1:04.95
Subaru Impreza RA SPEC C 1:04.95
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R33) 1:05.00
Honda NSX Type-S Zero 1:05.17
Ferrari 360 Modena 1:05.25
Porsche 911 GT3 (996 facelift) 1:05.29
Ferrari F355 1:05.61
Subaru Impreza STI Spec C 1:05.61
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R34) 1:06.00
Mitsubishi EVO X MR SST 1:06.00
Honda NSX-R (3.0) 1:06.01
Porsche Cayman S (981) 1:06.01
RUF CTR Yellow Bird 1:06.12
Mazda RX-7 (280 PS) 1:06.36
TVR Tamora 1:06.41
Nissan Nismo 370Z 1:06.64
BMW M3 CSL (E46) 1:06.88

RB Will

5,219 posts

171 months

Friday 1st December 2017
quotequote all
hondansx said:
It's hard to find truly accurate times. There are loads of BMI videos and Tsukuba was obviously used a lot.

Strangely, I can't find a lap time of the RX7 RS outside of that video. And the cars in the video posted achieved different laptimes than the list below! Still fun to compare though...

Porsche 911 GT3 RS (991) 1:00.70
Nissan Nismo R34 Z-Tune 1:01.15
Nissan GT-R Nismo (R35) 1:01.32
Ferrari F40 1:03.95
Nissan NISMO 400R 1:04.00
Porsche 911 Turbo (997) 1:04.12
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII RS 1:04.15
Porsche 911 GT2 (993) 1:04.25
Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) 1:04.51
McLaren F1 1:04.62
Honda NSX-R (3.2) 1:04.95
Subaru Impreza RA SPEC C 1:04.95
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R33) 1:05.00
Honda NSX Type-S Zero 1:05.17
Ferrari 360 Modena 1:05.25
Porsche 911 GT3 (996 facelift) 1:05.29
Ferrari F355 1:05.61
Subaru Impreza STI Spec C 1:05.61
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R34) 1:06.00
Mitsubishi EVO X MR SST 1:06.00
Honda NSX-R (3.0) 1:06.01
Porsche Cayman S (981) 1:06.01
RUF CTR Yellow Bird 1:06.12
Mazda RX-7 (280 PS) 1:06.36
TVR Tamora 1:06.41
Nissan Nismo 370Z 1:06.64
BMW M3 CSL (E46) 1:06.88
Where are you getting the list from? just for example there are a few on there that are faster than listed. The Impreza Spec C I mentioned was 1.04.49 and not 1.05.61 and the R34 in the video that started this topic was in the 1.05s.

What the list does show is that the cars are all pretty close in performance and that a difference in driver would be bigger than a difference in car for most people

loudlashadjuster

3,026 posts

115 months

Friday 1st December 2017
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RB Will said:
What the list does show is that the cars are all pretty close in performance...
What the list does show is that the BM times are almost total nonsense.

FTFY

Unless we are all happy that an Evo VIII is quicker than a McLaren F1?!

SonicShadow

2,137 posts

85 months

Friday 1st December 2017
quotequote all
loudlashadjuster said:
RB Will said:
What the list does show is that the cars are all pretty close in performance...
What the list does show is that the BM times are almost total nonsense.

FTFY

Unless we are all happy that an Evo VIII is quicker than a McLaren F1?!
It may well be at Tsukuba, the two straights are both pretty short so the F1 doesn't really have a chance to stretch is power advantage.

V8RX7

15,694 posts

194 months

Saturday 2nd December 2017
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All these show is that they are all comparable cars - the result will vary depending upon driver, tyres etc

The question should be why do comparable cars have such wildly different prices ?

I know it's supply and demand but is the demand for the rarer car, the better investment or the better car ?