RE: BMW M5 (F90): Driven
Discussion
popeyewhite said:
E65Ross said:
popeyewhite said:
peteA said:
The M5 isn’t like this - it’s meant to be a thinking mans super saloon,
Isn't it meant to be a sports car in a saloon body? For the businessman that also liked the odd spirited drive? That was the original design brief IIRC. Anyway fake noise, too many gadgets and unattractive design ruin the package...but a very powerful engine in any car is always good.The M5 has always been take a normal saloon and stick the engine from a supercar in it. (M1 originally)
Now now let's not trip up over ourselves here. Just because I suggested 600bhp 'might' be too much for a road car certainly doesn't mean I'm not glad these things exist. All I was saying was if electronics are necessary to keep everything in check and keep us herberts safe from ourselves then it does at least warrant the question how much is too much surely? I have a 60 mile round trip commute on largely A roads and get frustrated with around 320bhp at times. Get on a twisty B road and I'm happy to admit the car is faster than me.
And I think we all need to be a bit more honest with ourselves too. Start tapping into the performance of a 600bhp car on the public road and I think you'd most probably be stretching a lot of people's' idea of social responsibility.
Just my view. Not looking to fight about it.
And I think we all need to be a bit more honest with ourselves too. Start tapping into the performance of a 600bhp car on the public road and I think you'd most probably be stretching a lot of people's' idea of social responsibility.
Just my view. Not looking to fight about it.
givablondabone said:
Now now let's not trip up over ourselves here. Just because I suggested 600bhp 'might' be too much for a road car certainly doesn't mean I'm not glad these things exist. All I was saying was if electronics are necessary to keep everything in check and keep us herberts safe from ourselves then it does at least warrant the question how much is too much surely? I have a 60 mile round trip commute on largely A roads and get frustrated with around 320bhp at times. Get on a twisty B road and I'm happy to admit the car is faster than me.
And I think we all need to be a bit more honest with ourselves too. Start tapping into the performance of a 600bhp car on the public road and I think you'd most probably be stretching a lot of people's' idea of social responsibility.
Just my view. Not looking to fight about it.
No - act anti-socially with 600bhp (or 200bhp) and you will be stretching just about anyone idea of social responsibility.And I think we all need to be a bit more honest with ourselves too. Start tapping into the performance of a 600bhp car on the public road and I think you'd most probably be stretching a lot of people's' idea of social responsibility.
Just my view. Not looking to fight about it.
Act with sense with 600bhp, and you will be fine. Comfortably fine.
Ares said:
No - act anti-socially with 600bhp (or 200bhp) and you will be stretching just about anyone idea of social responsibility.
Act with sense with 600bhp, and you will be fine. Comfortably fine.
Agreed you can be a c*ck in anything but to do 600bhp any kind of justice.............?Act with sense with 600bhp, and you will be fine. Comfortably fine.
Has no-one commented on how similar they are now?
Thinking back to previous AMG, M and Audi RS iterations, look at the variation that was on offer. V10's, V8's, supercharged, turbocharged, 4WD, RWD etc.
What have we got now? All 4WD, all turbocharged V8's, all slushboxes.
Now they're obviously terrific cars, but that's a crying shame.
Thinking back to previous AMG, M and Audi RS iterations, look at the variation that was on offer. V10's, V8's, supercharged, turbocharged, 4WD, RWD etc.
What have we got now? All 4WD, all turbocharged V8's, all slushboxes.
Now they're obviously terrific cars, but that's a crying shame.
givablondabone said:
Ares said:
No - act anti-socially with 600bhp (or 200bhp) and you will be stretching just about anyone idea of social responsibility.
Act with sense with 600bhp, and you will be fine. Comfortably fine.
Agreed you can be a c*ck in anything but to do 600bhp any kind of justice.............?Act with sense with 600bhp, and you will be fine. Comfortably fine.
But I do have 510hp (and c300kg less weight than the M5). I frequently do all 510hp justice on the road. That's not to say I wouldn't like to give it more justice
Patrick Bateman said:
Has no-one commented on how similar they are now?
Thinking back to previous AMG, M and Audi RS iterations, look at the variation that was on offer. V10's, V8's, supercharged, turbocharged, 4WD, RWD etc.
What have we got now? All 4WD, all turbocharged V8's, all slushboxes.
Now they're obviously terrific cars, but that's a crying shame.
Aside from the argument that they were all potentially different for the sake of being different....they are still very different cars once you drive them.Thinking back to previous AMG, M and Audi RS iterations, look at the variation that was on offer. V10's, V8's, supercharged, turbocharged, 4WD, RWD etc.
What have we got now? All 4WD, all turbocharged V8's, all slushboxes.
Now they're obviously terrific cars, but that's a crying shame.
Ares said:
That was the M3. And both were built for homologation purposes to go racing.
No, the first true M5 - the M535, came before any 3 series version. And they were built because MB had the 190 2.3 16v, were racing it, and BMW "had nothing to respond with". BMW had no sports version of the 5 series at this time so decided to build one, hence the M535 in 1984. It's all on the M Division website.Just watched the Matt Prior Autocar video and he seems to really like it, sounded good as well, looked good and goes like the clappers, can't see what the issue is.
The problem with my old M5 was it had too much power/torque in the lower gears for the available traction to be able to exploit it fully although it was very benign in that it wasn't snappy, you could spin up the rears in 2nd really easily which is fun but not if you're going for an overtake and misjudge the throttle application as I did a few times.
The problem with my old M5 was it had too much power/torque in the lower gears for the available traction to be able to exploit it fully although it was very benign in that it wasn't snappy, you could spin up the rears in 2nd really easily which is fun but not if you're going for an overtake and misjudge the throttle application as I did a few times.
Even if the engine is a peach you won't be able to give it a WOT for longer than a few seconds, ever.
After about 200bhp/tonne, on normal fun roads, it's all about the way it drives and feels than anything else.
You can add more go but it won't make it more "M"
I'd rather see the M3 engine in there and use e-turbo assists for zero lag, or regen and batteries for awd and torque in-fill ala P1.
Get the weight down and make it genuinely interesting tech and respond like an NA motor.
Instead it's a cheap solution priced as if it were special.
In a world of fancy solutions this is really bland.
After about 200bhp/tonne, on normal fun roads, it's all about the way it drives and feels than anything else.
You can add more go but it won't make it more "M"
I'd rather see the M3 engine in there and use e-turbo assists for zero lag, or regen and batteries for awd and torque in-fill ala P1.
Get the weight down and make it genuinely interesting tech and respond like an NA motor.
Instead it's a cheap solution priced as if it were special.
In a world of fancy solutions this is really bland.
popeyewhite said:
Ares said:
That was the M3. And both were built for homologation purposes to go racing.
No, the first true M5 - the M535, came before any 3 series version. And they were built because MB had the 190 2.3 16v, were racing it, and BMW "had nothing to respond with". BMW had no sports version of the 5 series at this time so decided to build one, hence the M535 in 1984. It's all on the M Division website.The E30 M3 was the same year.
I'm not sure how he can state the interior is 'understated' - I went to a dealer launch a few weeks back and the interior looks like a mix between a boyed up Max Power special and a night club/Xmas tree at night.
It has a £3 red Halfords starter button, light up speakers and head rest badges - wow and even more impressively you can programme the colour of all the Xmas tree/nightclub lights!!!
Having owned a F10 M5 for 3 years I feel I am in a position to comment. That car had an interior that was a lot more understated and classier than this.
Perhaps I'm just getting old but the E63S I drove in May was not much different. Perhaps BMW and Mercedes should revert to getting mature folk to design interiors for mature buyers as opposed to kids. It's enough to put me off buying one. Nuff said
It has a £3 red Halfords starter button, light up speakers and head rest badges - wow and even more impressively you can programme the colour of all the Xmas tree/nightclub lights!!!
Having owned a F10 M5 for 3 years I feel I am in a position to comment. That car had an interior that was a lot more understated and classier than this.
Perhaps I'm just getting old but the E63S I drove in May was not much different. Perhaps BMW and Mercedes should revert to getting mature folk to design interiors for mature buyers as opposed to kids. It's enough to put me off buying one. Nuff said
Ares said:
lord trumpton said:
I love the looks and the romance of owning such a fast barge but in reality a car of this size and performance makes little sense in the UK
Why?I would have thought the 530D or 540i would be pretty fast cars on public roads and more than fast enough. I'm not for one second saying someone shouldn't be allowed to buy it, just wondering how you use the performance you paid for.
Limpet said:
I agree with this. I've got the ZF8HP in my M140i, and not once have I ever felt short-changed. Shifts bang through instantly in manual and Sport+, and slur almost imperceptibly in auto and Comfort. Unless you're in Eco Pro mode, the converter is locked at anything above about 15 mph, so you get instant drive, and proper engine braking. And with the TC, you have absolutely smooth, flawlessly consistent creep, and impeccable manners in heavy traffic.
What has been achieved with modern TC transmissions and their sophisticated control systems is remarkable. Their behaviour is barely recognisable compared to even a decade ago.
I owned M240i auto and yes the box is great, better than the DCT around town. However, when punching it in the DCT (in my F80) the ZF is no match. I can live with the around town ride. People are getting soft. Stamp and go, minimal driving skills required. What has been achieved with modern TC transmissions and their sophisticated control systems is remarkable. Their behaviour is barely recognisable compared to even a decade ago.
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