RE: BMW M5 (F90): Driven
Discussion
The most important question is - will a touring version be coming out?! There is certainly the following for an unnecessarily fast estate and I personally think that'll be more well received than this, pretty enough (all things considered), but rather uninspiring saloon.
The E39 was largely a 5 series in sport trim with a few subtle differences (tailpipes, wing mirrors etc) and in many ways it's good to see a return to form here.
The E39 was largely a 5 series in sport trim with a few subtle differences (tailpipes, wing mirrors etc) and in many ways it's good to see a return to form here.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Easy!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM0xLja4Rt4
On and off, with the flick of a fuse.
Resolutionary said:
The most important question is - will a touring version be coming out?! There is certainly the following for an unnecessarily fast estate and I personally think that'll be more well received than this, pretty enough (all things considered), but rather uninspiring saloon.
This always comes up when there's a new M5. The problem is that on the two occasions that an M5 Touring has been made available to the market and UK market especially, it simply hasn't sold.
Whilst there's a huge used demand for them, it doesn't seem to be reflected in the demand from new buyers. As manufacturers don't build half-priced used cars, they go where the market is.
Look at ALPINA B5/D5 sales in saloon/estate proportions too, for the last several generations. There just isn't the new demand to make the economic case for engineering and homologating one, without it costing a significant extra amount than the saloon - BMW/M know this and they'll lose sales to Audi S/RS and Mercedes-AMG accordingly.
E63 is available as an estate and has been available in AMG versions for 20 years in the UK. They sell in dozens and hundreds compared to thousands of saloons.
RumbleOfThunder said:
So disappointed to again hear of synthesized engine sounds through the speakers. Do they not hear the negative feedback?? It's a s
t solution and it hurts the credibility of the //M brand.
Interesting..my view is that if you had ever driven one, you'd realise what a non issue it is. And people that actually buy these do not give a st solution and it hurts the credibility of the //M brand.t or even notice. I didn't. Brilliant cars. Brutally quick, subtle, magnificently appointed...
RumbleOfThunder said:
So disappointed to again hear of synthesized engine sounds through the speakers. Do they not hear the negative feedback?? It's a st solution and it hurts the credibility of the //M brand.
I think the complaints about this are massively overblown. Firstly, it's not fake engine noise, it's real engine noise which is played through the speakers. Secondly, the reason it's done like that is so that when you're trundling on the motorway at 70, you can have some peace and quiet due to the properly insulated cabin and non-ridiculously loud exterior noise.t solution and it hurts the credibility of the //M brand.I strongly expect that you wouldn't even notice what was going on unless you've been told, and even then you'd struggle.
Disclaimer: I own the F10 version and don't mind it.
Aes87 said:
PunterCam said:
This "user configurable" rubbish has to stop. I can't even decide where I want my blinking seat to be - how am I meant to configure the rest of the car?! It's a nonsense - I don't know anything about setups, and I don't care either.
I would always rather have a lovely compromise, perfectly judged and refined by people who knew what they were doing, than a bunch of configurable parts that must by design be flawed to work over a larger range.
Agree completely. That's what made the M cars from the 90s so special - no traction control, proper manual, rear wheel drive all of the time, perfectly judged steering straight from the factory i.e. everything was set up right from the word go by the best in the business. Now it has to be like an iPhone or some other "device". I don't think Clarkson would be a fan..I would always rather have a lovely compromise, perfectly judged and refined by people who knew what they were doing, than a bunch of configurable parts that must by design be flawed to work over a larger range.
je777 said:
Changing DCT to auto - maybe ok in a car like this, but how long before this (presumably cheaper) decision makes its way into sports cars as well.
Said it before...I'll say it again. Latest 'proper' autos are so good and so quick they start to render DCT/SMG/Dual Clutch as redundant, especially sub-supercars.hondansx said:
I think you make a very good point there. And in my view, the M5 needs to look more interesting to help differentiate it. I saw one in the flesh at an unveiling and was utterly underwhelmed.
But to me, that is the essence of a M-car. A Q-Car, unassuming. Let the chav's drive the loud and shouty RS6 and E63s, the M5 was always about a car that looked no different but have super cars a shock.4941cc said:
This always comes up when there's a new M5.
The problem is that on the two occasions that an M5 Touring has been made available to the market and UK market especially, it simply hasn't sold.
Whilst there's a huge used demand for them, it doesn't seem to be reflected in the demand from new buyers. As manufacturers don't build half-priced used cars, they go where the market is.
Look at ALPINA B5/D5 sales in saloon/estate proportions too, for the last several generations. There just isn't the new demand to make the economic case for engineering and homologating one, without it costing a significant extra amount than the saloon - BMW/M know this and they'll lose sales to Audi S/RS and Mercedes-AMG accordingly.
E63 is available as an estate and has been available in AMG versions for 20 years in the UK. They sell in dozens and hundreds compared to thousands of saloons.
Agreed on all points - I just find BMWs approach to the fast estate market a bit disjointed; they probably rely on their 35i / 35d / 40i / 40d models to shift quick tourings but when the E60 M5 touring came out, and even when I see one out and about (rarity) I can't help but doff the crap out of my cap at whoever drives it. The problem is that on the two occasions that an M5 Touring has been made available to the market and UK market especially, it simply hasn't sold.
Whilst there's a huge used demand for them, it doesn't seem to be reflected in the demand from new buyers. As manufacturers don't build half-priced used cars, they go where the market is.
Look at ALPINA B5/D5 sales in saloon/estate proportions too, for the last several generations. There just isn't the new demand to make the economic case for engineering and homologating one, without it costing a significant extra amount than the saloon - BMW/M know this and they'll lose sales to Audi S/RS and Mercedes-AMG accordingly.
E63 is available as an estate and has been available in AMG versions for 20 years in the UK. They sell in dozens and hundreds compared to thousands of saloons.
I suppose AMG and moreso Audi have long established themselves in the estate segment, whereas BMW have flirted with it. Either way, would be cool to see.
RumbleOfThunder said:
So disappointed to again hear of synthesized engine sounds through the speakers. Do they not hear the negative feedback?? It's a st solution and it hurts the credibility of the //M brand.
Is it synthesised (s, not z t solution and it hurts the credibility of the //M brand.
), or just piped in?If the latter, it is the best of both works IMO.
Resolutionary said:
Agreed on all points - I just find BMWs approach to the fast estate market a bit disjointed; they probably rely on their 35i / 35d / 40i / 40d models to shift quick tourings but when the E60 M5 touring came out, and even when I see one out and about (rarity) I can't help but doff the crap out of my cap at whoever drives it.
I suppose AMG and moreso Audi have long established themselves in the estate segment, whereas BMW have flirted with it. Either way, would be cool to see.
The more I think about it, the more I should just swallow some brave pills and buy me another E61 M5 Touring. The Black on Can-Can on the Trader looks quite interesting... The Bi-turbo era M5s do nothing for me... Yes, the E60 is so fundamentally flawed, it is not even funny. But it had character in spades, it had a hydraulic rack and it had a normally aspirated V10 inspired by F1. The F10 and the F90 have engines inspired by turbo diesels and more electronic gizmos than an Apple Store in California...I suppose AMG and moreso Audi have long established themselves in the estate segment, whereas BMW have flirted with it. Either way, would be cool to see.
Resolutionary said:
The most important question is - will a touring version be coming out?! There is certainly the following for an unnecessarily fast estate and I personally think that'll be more well received than this, pretty enough (all things considered), but rather uninspiring saloon.
The E39 was largely a 5 series in sport trim with a few subtle differences (tailpipes, wing mirrors etc) and in many ways it's good to see a return to form here.
Did you buy an old M5 touring, when it was brand new?The E39 was largely a 5 series in sport trim with a few subtle differences (tailpipes, wing mirrors etc) and in many ways it's good to see a return to form here.
they sold approx 5% tourings as what they did saloons....you can see why they don't bother.
This looks fantastic, definitely on the right side of subtle.
What keeps bugging me though... Why is this F90 when the 5 series it's based on is G30? I know the M models now get a separate designation but it seems odd that it's Fxx when the 5 series came out before and it's Gxx. Anybody know the reasoning behind it?
What keeps bugging me though... Why is this F90 when the 5 series it's based on is G30? I know the M models now get a separate designation but it seems odd that it's Fxx when the 5 series came out before and it's Gxx. Anybody know the reasoning behind it?
Ares said:
hondansx said:
I think you make a very good point there. And in my view, the M5 needs to look more interesting to help differentiate it. I saw one in the flesh at an unveiling and was utterly underwhelmed.
But to me, that is the essence of a M-car. A Q-Car, unassuming. Let the chav's drive the loud and shouty RS6 and E63s, the M5 was always about a car that looked no different but have super cars a shock.Those "chav's" must have come a long way to afford an RS6 or an E63 aswell!
Resolutionary said:
E65Ross said:
Did you buy an old M5 touring, when it was brand new?
they sold approx 5% tourings as what they did saloons....you can see why they don't bother.
No, because I was 17 at the time. they sold approx 5% tourings as what they did saloons....you can see why they don't bother.
They should definitely make it now BMWBen said:
Aes87 said:
PunterCam said:
This "user configurable" rubbish has to stop. I can't even decide where I want my blinking seat to be - how am I meant to configure the rest of the car?! It's a nonsense - I don't know anything about setups, and I don't care either.
I would always rather have a lovely compromise, perfectly judged and refined by people who knew what they were doing, than a bunch of configurable parts that must by design be flawed to work over a larger range.
Agree completely. That's what made the M cars from the 90s so special - no traction control, proper manual, rear wheel drive all of the time, perfectly judged steering straight from the factory i.e. everything was set up right from the word go by the best in the business. Now it has to be like an iPhone or some other "device". I don't think Clarkson would be a fan..I would always rather have a lovely compromise, perfectly judged and refined by people who knew what they were doing, than a bunch of configurable parts that must by design be flawed to work over a larger range.
There's another key difference... the nearly 600bhp. There would be a lot of dead customers without some of that trickery.
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