RE: BMW M5 (F90): Driven
Discussion
ahenners said:
This looks fantastic, definitely on the right side of subtle.
What keeps bugging me though... Why is this F90 when the 5 series it's based on is G30? I know the M models now get a separate designation but it seems odd that it's Fxx when the 5 series came out before and it's Gxx. Anybody know the reasoning behind it?
No idea, reason and logic long departed the system when models started getting different codes for different bodystyles. What keeps bugging me though... Why is this F90 when the 5 series it's based on is G30? I know the M models now get a separate designation but it seems odd that it's Fxx when the 5 series came out before and it's Gxx. Anybody know the reasoning behind it?
Likewise when they ran out of E - because it stood for Entwicklung - "development". But the factory mainframe system was designed to only handle a letter followed by up to two numbers (Mercedes is a letter plus three numbers and VAG are a single letter and number), hence they couldn't go to E100 after E99.
F30 Three and F32/34 gained 50 to become F80/82/84 when the Motorsport model was launched. Different code number due to the amount of extra development, 80%+ changed components from a regular series BMW to a Motorsport one and type approved as a distinct model rather than simply a different engine/trim derivative.
As such, G30 should have made for a G90 M5. Except it didn't. I guess F90 was vacant. F22 2 Series coupe became F87 as M2. :shrug:
givablondabone said:
Which kinda suggests it's far too much in the first place for the public road?
530d xDrive is enough to make serious progress in the UK, truth be told. 540i xDrive likewise, sounds better, but despite the extra 80 horses, doesn't really feel any quicker on the road. Turn the electronics off most 250bhp+ cars and I suspect a lot of us may more regularly come a cropper on the roads, self included!
So it's more and more an interesting technical exercise and a challenge, as much as winning at Top Trumps.
Guvernator said:
Sorry just too subtle for me and it's retained one of the biggest disappointments of the last version, namely that effective but soulless engine. How on earth anyone can make a 4.4 twin turbo V8 boring is beyond me but BMW have given it a good go.
If I want to disappear into the crowd, I'd by a 530d, an M5 has to be a little more than just an anonymously faster 5 series.
...which is why people buy the M5, it's always been subtle to the point of nearly blending in with a 530d - I for one would be gutted if BMW changed what the M5 was about since it was introduced. If I want to disappear into the crowd, I'd by a 530d, an M5 has to be a little more than just an anonymously faster 5 series.
If I was from Essex then of course, i'd probably require my car to look far more expensive and shouty
givablondabone said:
BMWBen said:
Aes87 said:
PunterCam said:
This "user configurable" rubbish has to stop. I can't even decide where I want my blinking seat to be - how am I meant to configure the rest of the car?! It's a nonsense - I don't know anything about setups, and I don't care either.
I would always rather have a lovely compromise, perfectly judged and refined by people who knew what they were doing, than a bunch of configurable parts that must by design be flawed to work over a larger range.
Agree completely. That's what made the M cars from the 90s so special - no traction control, proper manual, rear wheel drive all of the time, perfectly judged steering straight from the factory i.e. everything was set up right from the word go by the best in the business. Now it has to be like an iPhone or some other "device". I don't think Clarkson would be a fan..I would always rather have a lovely compromise, perfectly judged and refined by people who knew what they were doing, than a bunch of configurable parts that must by design be flawed to work over a larger range.
There's another key difference... the nearly 600bhp. There would be a lot of dead customers without some of that trickery.
Willy Nilly said:
Too much power is just about enough aside, how do you even scratch at the surface of a 600hp saloon car on the road? I know you can do track days in it, but why would you choose a car like this for track days? I'm glad it exists, but is it more about bragging rights?
Can easily be done on occasion. Even though it is occasional, it's worth it.There are plenty of other cars which will outperform this (McLaren 720S would destroy this, for example), are you saying that they should exist only for track days? If so, what a shame, if that's your take on things.
kambites said:
je777 said:
Changing DCT to auto - maybe ok in a car like this, but how long before this (presumably cheaper) decision makes its way into sports cars as well.
I think the writing has been on the wall for double clutch boxes for a while now, at least in mainstream cars. They were arguably necessary to prod the makers of conventional automatics to improve their products but in mainstream cars, a good planetary torque convertor box is simply better, IMO.What has been achieved with modern TC transmissions and their sophisticated control systems is remarkable. Their behaviour is barely recognisable compared to even a decade ago.
For me they both seem to have gone back to their respective camps the M5 used to be subtle & go about it's business swiftly with not much fuss whereas the E Class AMG's have been a bit more shouty, for me I'd probably go for the Mercedes but in truth both are a bit too big to have (in terms of their width) proper fun with but both will be enjoyable.
E65Ross said:
Ah, so instead of around 5% it may have been nearer 5.1% 
They should definitely make it now 
Correct! Hah in seriousness my friend's dad got one new and I thought then, as I largely think now, that it was the coolest car on the road. Alas, profits rule and development costs (are to) drool (over). They should definitely make it now Brrr... it's suddenly got chilly in here! That leaves me totally cold. Absurdly expensive, tacky interior and underwhelming exterior. They appear to have given it the CSL treatment as they have done with the M4, and applied the same lunatic pricing structure. To my mind BMW seem to be on the opposite of "a roll" these days. More of a bap I suppose.
Aes87 said:
Agree completely. That's what made the M cars from the 90s so special - no traction control, proper manual, rear wheel drive all of the time, perfectly judged steering straight from the factory i.e. everything was set up right from the word go by the best in the business. Now it has to be like an iPhone or some other "device". I don't think Clarkson would be a fan..
And I'm not sure BMW would give the proverbial flying f
k at a rolling doughnut as to what that silly little man thinks. beanoir said:
...which is why people buy the M5, it's always been subtle to the point of nearly blending in with a 530d - I for one would be gutted if BMW changed what the M5 was about since it was introduced.
If I was from Essex then of course, i'd probably require my car to look far more expensive and shouty
Haha why does it always have to be black and white on PH? Because I think it looks anonymous, I MUST automatically want it to look like a chavved up Essex wagon? There is such a thing as subtle aggression, the E39 had it in spades but the F10 just missed the mark for me and this one from the pics looks to be the same.If I was from Essex then of course, i'd probably require my car to look far more expensive and shouty
Besides the looks are the least of my problems, it's that engine, impressive enough for people who love to quote top trump figures or are impressed by very easily accessible speed but utterly devoid of the magic that usually sets an M engine apart from the rest of the range IMO, a view also shared by many others.
Bendrix said:
It’s only a first drive. Maybe at least wait for the group tests back in Blighty before you vent your spleens with anger at it having a ‘dull’ engine, even though you’re not even going to buy one anyway...
It's based on the previous F10 engine with a few detail changes so I can't imagine the character or power delivery of it being too dissimilar, Yes I considered buying the previous one and yes the engine put me off.I used to be a big BMW fan but I agree with a poster above that they seem to have lost their mojo a bit of late. Still I suspect none of that will matter to the thousands of buyers who will lap up this M5 as the latest and greatest.
Willy Nilly said:
Too much power is just about enough aside, how do you even scratch at the surface of a 600hp saloon car on the road? I know you can do track days in it, but why would you choose a car like this for track days? I'm glad it exists, but is it more about bragging rights?
The notion that you can't use 600bhp on the road is crap. Unless you are an idiot, in which case 200bhp is too much.Guvernator said:
Bendrix said:
It’s only a first drive. Maybe at least wait for the group tests back in Blighty before you vent your spleens with anger at it having a ‘dull’ engine, even though you’re not even going to buy one anyway...
It's based on the previous F10 engine with a few detail changes so I can't imagine the character or power delivery of it being too dissimilar, Yes I considered buying the previous one and yes the engine put me off.I used to be a big BMW fan but I agree with a poster above that they seem to have lost their mojo a bit of late. Still I suspect none of that will matter to the thousands of buyers who will lap up this M5 as the latest and greatest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOMTa4FOrI4
Guvernator said:
beanoir said:
...which is why people buy the M5, it's always been subtle to the point of nearly blending in with a 530d - I for one would be gutted if BMW changed what the M5 was about since it was introduced.
If I was from Essex then of course, i'd probably require my car to look far more expensive and shouty
Haha why does it always have to be black and white on PH? Because I think it looks anonymous, I MUST automatically want it to look like a chavved up Essex wagon? There is such a thing as subtle aggression, the E39 had it in spades but the F10 just missed the mark for me and this one from the pics looks to be the same.If I was from Essex then of course, i'd probably require my car to look far more expensive and shouty
Besides the looks are the least of my problems, it's that engine, impressive enough for people who love to quote top trump figures or are impressed by very easily accessible speed but utterly devoid of the magic that usually sets an M engine apart from the rest of the range IMO, a view also shared by many others.
The F10 for me is an improvement over the old V10 engine cars. The new cars are great at what they do now, fast, more fuel efficient and comfortable. The perfect daily driver companion to the weekend car. If I wanted a jack of all trades I'd probably be looking at the M4.
So my point being, the new M5 is perfect for what quite a few customers (like me) wanted.
beanoir said:
There are plenty of people are fans of the latest incarnations of the M5 and it's often because they aren't highly strung and flash looking.
The F10 for me is an improvement over the old V10 engine cars. The new cars are great at what they do now, fast, more fuel efficient and comfortable. The perfect daily driver companion to the weekend car. If I wanted a jack of all trades I'd probably be looking at the M4.
So my point being, the new M5 is perfect for what quite a few customers (like me) wanted.
And me. I'm nearly 80k miles into my F10 and never tire of it. I expect I'll double the current mileage and then take a look at one of these F90's.The F10 for me is an improvement over the old V10 engine cars. The new cars are great at what they do now, fast, more fuel efficient and comfortable. The perfect daily driver companion to the weekend car. If I wanted a jack of all trades I'd probably be looking at the M4.
So my point being, the new M5 is perfect for what quite a few customers (like me) wanted.
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