RE: Hyundai i30N vs SEAT Leon Cupra 300

[culpz]

D200 said:

So it’s up to 6k more than the ST so it needs to be massively better in every single way. I doubt it is.

As per this review, it's pretty much beaten a 300bhp Seat Leon Cupra, in terms of driving dynamics. With that being said, I can guarantee you that it will absolutely trounce a Focus ST.

D200 said:

It same order price as a Golf GTI too

The Golf is way down on power though and will be nowhere near as fast or as capable. I wouldn't be comparing it to this Hyundai as there's more to this than a comparison of price.

D200 said:

Ultimate handling capabilities, while supposedly important to many ph readers, not as vital to car buying public. Many other things come into play

I agree but isn't that what hot-hatches are about? It's never simply been about having a plush interior, a decent badge and a little bit of go in the straights.

D200 said:

Price is still relevant as pcp lease prices are based on price (among other things)

This will be the Hyundai's down-fall. If they can come up with some decent lease/PCP deals to get them ordered and out there, even in limited numbers, then it could possibly compete..

[TwigtheWonderkid]

D200 said:

Strange comparison with Seat.

A Golf GTi is 28,200

Civic Type R is 30995

Even focus rs or golf R and M140i aren’t that much more

Hyundai sounds good but not great

28k seems a bit pricey, it’s just slightly cheaper than competition but needs to be significantly cheaper or much better to compete rightly or wrongly, with the established competition

If it was 23995 it would be a bargain

If Hyundai released a poverty spec version, with all the toys taken out so it matches a base spec Golf GTI or BMW M140, it would probably be well under £24K!

The Hyundai will come with everything. Fit that lot to the Golf and BMW and you can probably add another £7K to their prices.

[GTEYE]

Problem for me is that its certainly a capable hot hatch but it needs to either be cheaper than the rivals or material quality needs to be better.

And I say that from experience as my girlfriend has a new shape i30 and whilst its certainly a capable machine, in things like material quality of the interior is pretty mediocre at best, and paint quality outside not that impressive, it's still some way short of say a Golf or the other more obvious rivals.

At say £18k for a cooking model maybe not so important but at £30k perhaps buyers may be a little more discerning.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Over the years we've had numerous Hyundais on our work fleet, Tucsons, iX35s, Santa Fes, an i10 and a Coupe. They've all been great. Completely faultless. Well built and nice to drive.

Our local dealer has an i30N demo which we will be getting for a few days in the new year. Not sure if it's a Performance spec or not, but I know it's light blue. I will report back when I've tried it.

[andrewparker]

stevesingo said:

I think from Hyundai's point of view, it needs to be priced competitively, but not too cheap as it might be dismissed as being half arsed. At £28k I doubt there is much profit for Hyundai given the R&D cost would be spread over a much smaller number of units than VAG clones, Ford and Honda.

It is worth remembering that the spec at base cost is far better than the competition. I expect once you have specced up your Golf GTi or Focus ST to match the i30N, the better value option might well be the i30N.

It will be interesting to see what the finance deals turn out to be. If Hyundai are smart, they will subsidise the finance deals so they can match the competition. It is less about profit at this stage and more about building the brand.

Please can you point me to where I can read about the standard spec. Always think it's a pretty bold claim when the large majority of hot hatches have extremely good standard spec these days.

[andrewparker]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

The Hyundai will come with everything. Fit that lot to the Golf and BMW and you can probably add another £7K to their prices.

Can you tell me what is has over a Golf GTI, or is this pure speculation?

[r11co]

kambites said:

I'm sure in the UK's badge-obsessed market they're got their eyes more on the next generation of cars if not the one after that. I think we'll see Hyundai viewed in very much the same vein as Honda within the next 10 or 15 years.

They have achieved that already for demographic, having pretty much ran Honda into the ground in the SUV and 'sensible' hatchback market. They are now chipping away at the remaining brand segments.

Those people who think a Ford has a better brand image than a Hyundai are a dying group.

[kambites]

andrewparker said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

The Hyundai will come with everything. Fit that lot to the Golf and BMW and you can probably add another £7K to their prices.

Can you tell me what is has over a Golf GTI, or is this pure speculation?

Looking at the specs I can't see much in the way of interior stuff but to bring the Golf up to the standard i30N in other terms you would need to add:

Performance Pack
Dynamic Chassis Control
Five year extended warranty

To the Golf to bring it into parity with the Hyundai which takes the price up to £31500 vs £25000.

[andrewparker]

kambites said:

andrewparker said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

The Hyundai will come with everything. Fit that lot to the Golf and BMW and you can probably add another £7K to their prices.

Can you tell me what is has over a Golf GTI, or is this pure speculation?

Looking at the specs I can't see much in the way of interior stuff but to bring the Golf up to the standard i30N in other terms you would need to add:

Performance Pack
Dynamic Chassis Control
Five year extended warranty

To the Golf to bring it into parity with the Hyundai which takes the price up to £31500 vs £25000.

You'll get a Performance Pack GTI with those options for £26k, but I guess Hyundai are pretty aggressive with discounts too?

[kambites]

andrewparker said:

You'll get a Performance Pack GTI with those options for £26k, but I guess Hyundai are pretty aggressive with discounts too?

I don't think we know, it's not out yet.

Again it's not really relevant since list and even actual purchase price is just one of many factors which feed into how much people actually end up paying per month for their car. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt Hyundai will be able to match VAG's PCP/lease deals.

[andrewparker]

kambites said:

Again it's not really relevant since list and even actual purchase price is just one of many factors which feed into how much people actually end up paying per month for their car. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt Hyundai will be able to match VAG's PCP/lease deals.

Agreed. Certainly looking forward to seeing how it matches up to other more focussed hot hatches, like the impending new hot Megane. Seems to be a real golden era for performance hatches.

[r11co]

kambites said:

Again it's not really relevant since list and even actual purchase price is just one of many factors which feed into how much people actually end up paying per month for their car. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt Hyundai will be able to match VAG's PCP/lease deals.

PCP/lease rates depend on GFV's which have been discussed in other threads and appear to be what the market leaders are leveraging (manipulating). Another reason why Hyundai cannot be seen to be unable to compete on product alone and be forced to compete on 'value', as cheap new leads to even cheaper second-hand.

The long game is being played well though - if Hyundai and KIA build enough good cars like this to improve the brand image then the notion that they have to sell on price along will diminish further.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Over the years we've had numerous Hyundais on our work fleet, Tucsons, iX35s, Santa Fes, an i10 and a Coupe. They've all been great. Completely faultless. Well built and nice to drive.

Our local dealer has an i30N demo which we will be getting for a few days in the new year. Not sure if it's a Performance spec or not, but I know it's light blue. I will report back when I've tried it.

Just heard that due to the staggering performance of these cars, Hyundai will not be letting then out for overnight demos but will only be offering accompanied drives out of the dealership. Given that we regularly get left Porsches, AMG Mercs and the like, I'm not sure Hyundai are fully geared up for a performance car offering.

Not sure if I can be bothered with that. Might pop down there, but probably won't.

[D200]

The Hyundai just about beat the Seat which never won a group hot hatch test

Its engine isn’t great, doesn’t rev with much vigor the article says

I see an awful lot of hypocrisy by the usual few here...

First saying that ALL that matter is how is out right handling [who cares about the engine which isn’t great as per this test] THEN you are immediately discounting the Golf as it has less BHP

Now, all of a sudden – all that matters is BHP count?

AND similarly regarding the equipment

They Hyundai has more standard equipment than a Golf therefore it is vastly superior car in every way as a hot hatch?

I hope you all have one of these on order if they are the second coming

You can park is alongside your Kia Stinger which you surely must have by now

Oh wait, you are all talking complete and utter nonsense……

So reconfirm …

I never said the Hyundai is a bad car or anything

I just think at 28k it is over priced

Same with a 42k Hyundai Santé Fe as someone else mentioned - overpriced

But I release lots here think they are both bargains of the century, each to their own

[kambites]

D200 said:

First saying that ALL that matter is how is out right handling [who cares about the engine which isn’t great as per this test] THEN you are immediately discounting the Golf as it has less BHP

Who said anything like that? I don't think it's possible to discount the Golf GTi in any hot hatch test, such is its dominance in people's minds if not on the road. It's the benchmark in this sector for good reasons.

[D200]

kambites said:

D200 said:

First saying that ALL that matter is how is out right handling [who cares about the engine which isn’t great as per this test] THEN you are immediately discounting the Golf as it has less BHP

Who said anything like that? I don't think it's possible to discount the Golf GTi in any hot hatch test, such is its dominance in people's minds if not on the road. It's the benchmark in this sector for good reasons.

culpz of course:

The Golf is way down on power though and will be nowhere near as fast or as capable. I wouldn't be comparing it to this Hyundai as there's more to this than a comparison of price.

[kambites]

D200 said:

culpz of course:

The Golf is way down on power though and will be nowhere near as fast or as capable. I wouldn't be comparing it to this Hyundai as there's more to this than a comparison of price.

Ah I missed that.

There is a good direct comparison to be made though, the Golf PP with the adaptive chassis thing and the standard Hyundai i30N look very similar on paper. In those specs the Golf is £31k (but significantly discounted) the Hyundai is £25k with unknown discounts. The reviews would seem to imply that the Hyundai is dynamically superior but I don't think anyone would bet against the Golf being nicer inside and having more general "feelgood factor" as a car.

Horses for courses but given the £6k list price difference I find it hard to see the Hyundai as overpriced, myself.

ETA: If the Golf turns out to have a lower total cost of ownership due to the way finance deals pan out, the Hyundai will of course look overpriced.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 7th December 12:40

[culpz]

D200 said:

kambites said:

D200 said:

First saying that ALL that matter is how is out right handling [who cares about the engine which isn’t great as per this test] THEN you are immediately discounting the Golf as it has less BHP

Who said anything like that? I don't think it's possible to discount the Golf GTi in any hot hatch test, such is its dominance in people's minds if not on the road. It's the benchmark in this sector for good reasons.

culpz of course:

The Golf is way down on power though and will be nowhere near as fast or as capable. I wouldn't be comparing it to this Hyundai as there's more to this than a comparison of price.

Which is still a valid point, IMO.

Who's that constantly slating Hyundai and KIA products? It's D200, of course

[fido]

D200 said:

Its engine isn’t great, doesn’t rev with much vigor the article says

Ditto - compared to the Honda CTR. Even the £5k initial difference (how much is that per month in PCP World?) isn't going to make me choose a wheezy Theta with upped-boost against the proven VTEC unit. The Honda is lighter (bonded chassis) faster (316PS) and you know the gear-change is going to be orgasmic. Even if the i30N is 95% as good around a track - well as a Petrolhead I want the best .. not the third or fourth best. As a second-hand proposition, even a year old, I'd still have the fugly CTR on my driveway.

[kambites]

However similar they might seem in some ways, I can't actually see there being much market cross-over between the Honda and Hyundai simply because they sit at such extremes in terms of looks.