RE: New McLaren Senna revealed

[anniesdad]

WCZ said:

anniesdad said:

Wow...does he have any actual evidence?

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1682642&i=0

fesuvious said:

Your Konigsiggy can induce a yawn in me. The spaceframed 900kg twin turbocharged cosworth engined xpack bodied capri I race makes either look slow.

I feel like some people who drive track cars have a real issue and skeptical attitude with hypercars for some reason

Edited by WCZ on Tuesday 12th December 14:47

So its a wings and slicks race car, producing downforce and at it's peak 600 bhp, weighing less than a ton. I guess it's feasible that it could beat the One:1 over a lap (although he mentions he was having brake issues so maybe only 1 lap). For reference the latest Ferrari 488 GTE on it's pole lap in the FIA WEC posted a 2:15 lap. This car has around 500bhp in race trim (BOP) from what I can gather and would weigh around/just over a ton.

Either way I think saying the Capri would make the One:1 look slow demonstrates a huge slice of artistic licence.

[AUTODESIGN]

This could be the start of the decline of Mrclaren ! All models are essentially the sane thing under the skin and this has a lot of 720 under all that nonsense. In my opinion, the bubble is about to burst and mclaren will be the hardest hit out of all the manufacturers. Models are too similar and they rely heavily on the limited edition sales . After sales, service and general attitude are about the worst in the industry . Infact, its already happening as 675LTs are off £50k in the last 6 months and i am being offered 720's at 25k under list. The road car division is not profitable when you strip out P1 sales in that year. I am afraid it could be goodbye mclaren road cars- Would be shame but serve them right for their arrogance and crap after sales!

[anonymous-user]

AUTODESIGN said:

This could be the start of the decline of Mrclaren ! All models are essentially the sane thing under the skin and this has a lot of 720 under all that nonsense. In my opinion, the bubble is about to burst and mclaren will be the hardest hit out of all the manufacturers. Models are too similar and they rely heavily on the limited edition sales . After sales, service and general attitude are about the worst in the industry . Infact, its already happening as 675LTs are off £50k in the last 6 months and i am being offered 720's at 25k under list. The road car division is not profitable when you strip out P1 sales in that year. I am afraid it could be goodbye mclaren road cars- Would be shame but serve them right for their arrogance and crap after sales!

Are you a dealer ?

[isaldiri]

anniesdad said:

I think the One:1 is rapid! The Egg's are breaking records all over the place at the minute. I'm not sure how official the Spa time is but they claim it as a production car lap record. I couldn't say if it's been beaten since. Maybe it would take a "Senna" with trick tyres to beat the One:1?

Don't get me wrong, 2:32 is awfully quick for a road legal car but tbh no one else has really tried to set a 'production lap record' there either and I'm dead certain Radical could go under that if they tried. I reckon a good pro in a factory backed 918 or P1 effort (ie driver wouldn't have to pay for a crash ) could already get there or very close and Mclaren seem pretty confident the P15 will be faster than the P1.

[Rich_W]

RSK21 said:

AUTODESIGN said:

This could be the start of the decline of Mrclaren ! All models are essentially the sane thing under the skin and this has a lot of 720 under all that nonsense. In my opinion, the bubble is about to burst and mclaren will be the hardest hit out of all the manufacturers. Models are too similar and they rely heavily on the limited edition sales . After sales, service and general attitude are about the worst in the industry . Infact, its already happening as 675LTs are off £50k in the last 6 months and i am being offered 720's at 25k under list. The road car division is not profitable when you strip out P1 sales in that year. I am afraid it could be goodbye mclaren road cars- Would be shame but serve them right for their arrogance and crap after sales!

Are you a dealer ?

What do you think? Though I guess he will have had more experience of the aftersales network than most as a result. TBH I've heard that it can be patchy. But just assumed that was down to a owner expectation / dealer having an off day.

Though I agree on the "essentially the same"/ "models are too similar" angle, hence why I wish theyd do something different just to help stop that becoming a "thing"

I was surprised at "less than list" on 720S

But Macari has one under list

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Same with LTs

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Less than 2K miles and well under £300K. Where it would have been roughly 340 upwards a while ago.


I doubt this will be the end of them though. Even monumentally ste F1 seasons and a succession of odd looking cars hasn't dented their appeal just yet. If they were going to fail, they'd lose the US market share first. And I don't think that's imminent. They may have to reconsider where they are going though.

Edited by Rich_W on Wednesday 13th December 00:01

[boxerTen]

RoverP6B said:

isaldiri said:

The car is expressly supposed to be designed to provide fantastic experience on track though. I think it's entirely possible that might very well be the case even if I agree with you that it was very likely a design choice to make the car look the way it did rather than purely out of aerodynamic function.

And on which track can an 800bhp supercar be fully extended by an averagely-talented driver? Let's face it, you're going to have more fun more of the time in a 911 GT3 or a Caterham or Radical, and the last of those will probably be as quick if not quicker round a lap...

Silverstone for one. Its not that difficult to exploit big horsepower on a track, on the road its different, but on a track most amateur (non-racing) enthusiast drivers, given 800 bhp, would be at WOT for substantial portions of the time.

Edited by boxerTen on Wednesday 13th December 00:15

[Todd Bonzalez]

isaldiri said:

Did I say they were? And anyway given GT3 class race cars raise their ride height for the N24 and VLN races there, yes I do indeed think the P15 with low ride height optimised for 'normal' GP tracks might have some issues there. Mclaren had to offer rubber bump stops for the P1 to owners to prevent the undertray from scraping overly badly there in race mode and even so it would be advisable to take the outside round karussell.

Have you ever been to VLN or anything?! A raised GT3 car is still about half as low as this!
What are you basing your "it's setup for GP tracks" on for goodness sake?

[PhantomPH]

Rich_W said:

Same with LTs

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Less than 2K miles and well under £300K. Where it would have been roughly 340 upwards a while ago.

I bloody love an LT and always hoped one day to put myself in one...so a price correction might mean I can bring that dream a little closer and when I achieve it, actually be able to drive the thing without fear of 'adding miles'.

As for that particular one, the colour is a little MArmite for me. If I had to go bright colour it would be the green, but ideally I prefer darker colours to take some of the edge off the metaphorical 'shout' that goes hand in hand with Supercar driving.

[isaldiri]

Todd Bonzalez said:

Have you ever been to VLN or anything?! A raised GT3 car is still about half as low as this!
What are you basing your "it's setup for GP tracks" on for goodness sake?

Not a chance a GT3 race car is 'half as low' as the P15 on race mode. It drops 5cm from what I'd guess is a normal ride height of ~10cm (675 ride height there or abouts). If you think the race cars are running at 2-3cm ride height normally nevermind at the vln races at the ring then imo you are completely wrong. As i said, the p1 scrapes it's undertray on race mode quite a bit to the point Mclaren offer rubber bump stops to be fitted if one plans on driving there, the P15 is unlikely to be any higher on race mode given the aero demands on the car.

Edited by isaldiri on Wednesday 13th December 11:07

[BVB]

Hideous, but at least they're being honest about that for once.

[suffolk009]

I'm looking at some more photos online and in print, none of the photos are as bad as the straight side profile. I'm warming to it. A bit.

[Rich_W]

suffolk009 said:

I'm looking at some more photos online and in print, none of the photos are as bad as the straight side profile. I'm warming to it. A bit.

Nearly every car has a "bad angle" where it looks off. For most cars though it's not side on though. You know the one you'll see when you go to get in it every time

If anything that's normally the one that's right!

(SsangYong Rodius aside)

[Davey S2]

I know there very different cars but if I had £750K to spend on a new performance car I'd have gone for the new Ruf CTR

[RemyMartin81D]

Davey S2 said:

I know there very different cars but if I had £750K to spend on a new performance car I'd have gone for the new Ruf CTR

God that is so simple yet so awesome. Less is definitely more when it comes to styling (latest Audi RS4 take note, no need to be styled so aggressively and shart)

[p1stonhead]

Wonder if Andy74b might end up with a trio of Larks?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BcuDqzSl3Pe/?hl=en

[E65Ross]

Definitely an improvement! I think liveries on road cars often looks ridiculous, but I think that looks alright!

[Quickmoose]

An improvement?
McLaren didn't design this to require improving dontcha' know. Its a demonstration in engineering/aero/lap time prowess and that's it...right?

However, accepting it is indeed an improvement it's a very easy one to make, daubing it in heart string-pulling livery (camouflage?) cannot fail to improve on what was/is a pretty low point aesthetically...

Can we have a Harrods one and perhaps Gulf too? see if they can hide the 'engineering'

[thegreenhell]

p1stonhead said:

Wonder if Andy74b might end up with a trio of Larks?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BcuDqzSl3Pe/?hl=en

How much are Phillip Morris paying him to advertise their cigarettes on his cars?

[E65Ross]

Quickmoose said:

An improvement?
McLaren didn't design this to require improving dontcha' know. Its a demonstration in engineering/aero/lap time prowess and that's it...right?

However, accepting it is indeed an improvement it's a very easy one to make, daubing it in heart string-pulling livery (camouflage?) cannot fail to improve on what was/is a pretty low point aesthetically...

Can we have a Harrods one and perhaps Gulf too? see if they can hide the 'engineering'

That's a pretty large potato you have on your shoulder.

The paint colour has very little to do with the aero, you know....

[Quickmoose]

E65Ross said:

Quickmoose said:

An improvement?
McLaren didn't design this to require improving dontcha' know. Its a demonstration in engineering/aero/lap time prowess and that's it...right?

However, accepting it is indeed an improvement it's a very easy one to make, daubing it in heart string-pulling livery (camouflage?) cannot fail to improve on what was/is a pretty low point aesthetically...

Can we have a Harrods one and perhaps Gulf too? see if they can hide the 'engineering'

That's a pretty large potato you have on your shoulder.

The paint colour has very little to do with the aero, you know....

I haven't said paint has anything to do with improving the aero ?
Painting it pretty colours is a very simple visual trick to help enthusiasts 'get on board'
Porsche did it to the 918...a car that didn't need it but still looked cool with it.
Senna needs it....
(and no veggies on my person Ross....no need for snide assumption)