RE: Shed of the Week: Toyota Celica T-Sport 190
Discussion
I agree with much of what has been written here. The Celica 190 for me was a bit of an opportunity missed, a fundamentally decent car spoiled by a few deal-breaking flaws. The look and feel of the car was spot on for me, climbing out of a Clio 182 into the Celica and it instantly felt special. The low driving position and rakish coupe looks were a good antidote for the shopping trolley on steroids feel of the Clio.
However, it did start to unravel when you drove it. The engine for example, much better sounding than the Clios, was hampered by the gearbox, which was a massive disappointment in many ways. As said, the gearing too tall and the powerband too narrow meant that keeping it on the boil was certainly a challenge. Quite often the car would drop out of lift on the upchange. Worse still, was the notchiness of the gearshift on the one I drove - it really didn't like being rushed in much the same way as most Toyotas I've driven, so it was a frustrating exercise to keep on the boil.
As a result of the low torque and tall gearing, the car felt utterly gutless when not in the powerband.
The DC2 shows hows its done. The VTEC came in slightly lower than the lift on the Celica, yet it had a higher rev limit and lower gearing, and was so much easier to keep on the boil despite having one gear LESS. Because of the lower gearing it also felt a lot more accelerative and there were more chances to actually use it on the road. A shame really, because the Celica had the right ingredients, but somehow the end result was a little underwhelming.
However, it did start to unravel when you drove it. The engine for example, much better sounding than the Clios, was hampered by the gearbox, which was a massive disappointment in many ways. As said, the gearing too tall and the powerband too narrow meant that keeping it on the boil was certainly a challenge. Quite often the car would drop out of lift on the upchange. Worse still, was the notchiness of the gearshift on the one I drove - it really didn't like being rushed in much the same way as most Toyotas I've driven, so it was a frustrating exercise to keep on the boil.
As a result of the low torque and tall gearing, the car felt utterly gutless when not in the powerband.
The DC2 shows hows its done. The VTEC came in slightly lower than the lift on the Celica, yet it had a higher rev limit and lower gearing, and was so much easier to keep on the boil despite having one gear LESS. Because of the lower gearing it also felt a lot more accelerative and there were more chances to actually use it on the road. A shame really, because the Celica had the right ingredients, but somehow the end result was a little underwhelming.
alorotom said:
SonicShadow said:
So you're backing up your point with the only 190 on eBay that's under a grand, and it's got a day to run on the auction so is likely to go for a lot more than that anyway?
Righto.
no, not at all, it was a quick example from a quick flick while preparing my brekkie - there are a few 190s currently under £500 rather than a grand - have a look, its not a locked away secret - its only as i have a saved search for cars under £500 (plus some other criteria) ending soon and seen a few finish in this categoryRighto.
oh and for ref... the single one pulled as an example, as of now there is 36mins left, 1 bid, still £500
If a car changes hands for £500 you will expect it to need lots of attention or a significantly degraded driving experience.
The seller obviously is wanting to cut his/her losses at that level of money.
Edited by TwinExit on Tuesday 19th December 11:14
northyorksclassic said:
Afternoon, I am the dealer selling this vehicle, interesting to read the comments on here about the car. I have been advertising cars for a number of years now and the feedback I get suggests that people do prefer the adverts in capitals. I do not think it makes the dealer "thick" in fact far from it, we advertise predominantly classic cars with the bulk of our customer base being elder and in some cases very elder individuals. They prefer the capitals to read, we also do the same in our printed advertisements and I guess it just becomes force of habit to type everything in block capital. Regards
Sadly mate I’m going to have to agree with the previous posts and say posting in caps makes people look both a little lazy and daft. For me it’s the same for folks who send in a CV for a job but don’t bother to spell check it or check their grammar properly.
Point being that if their attention to detail on something as important as that is poor then it’s potentially an indication of how they will deliver in their role.
Elderly generations don’t tend to use the internet that much, but bear in mind it could be construed as a little insulting as you’d hope some could find the zoom function in their browser
.Edited by mrnoisy78 on Friday 22 December 07:09
Mr Tidy said:
There probably will - PH just need to find a 325ti Compact in their adverts that is within budget (there have been plenty on Autotrader within current "Shed" budget)!
"Only" 192 bhp, but RWD - much better idea!
Photo added especially for the benefit of "toyoda"!
We upset a guy in one of these at Bedford ...and we were two up in a Puma LOL."Only" 192 bhp, but RWD - much better idea!
Photo added especially for the benefit of "toyoda"!
Edited by Mr Tidy on Saturday 16th December 01:28
Really wasn’t that quick, we passed him on a straight, not sure if he had a problem but both cars were stripped out and would have expected him to destroy us on the straights.
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Friday 22 December 07:10
northyorksclassic said:
There is actually no rust on the car visibly but people being what they are these days will find any which way they can to twist whatever you say rather than say something positive but hey thats us english to a tee . Why praise someone when its much more fun to knock them down
Well no, not at all. Quite the opposite. Since I've had 4 Japanese cars and they all had trouble with rust, I was hoping there were some that didn't. I really like the engineering. I just hate the rust. If they made a sexy Japanese car, with one of those immortal engines, that didn't rust, I'd very happily buy one.(By the way, I'm not English either. Although, it really doesn't matter.)
mrnoisy78 said:
northyorksclassic said:
Afternoon, I am the dealer selling this vehicle, interesting to read the comments on here about the car. I have been advertising cars for a number of years now and the feedback I get suggests that people do prefer the adverts in capitals. I do not think it makes the dealer "thick" in fact far from it, we advertise predominantly classic cars with the bulk of our customer base being elder and in some cases very elder individuals. They prefer the capitals to read, we also do the same in our printed advertisements and I guess it just becomes force of habit to type everything in block capital. Regards
Sadly mate I’m going to have to agree with the previous posts and say posting in caps makes people look both a little lazy and daft. For me it’s the same for folks who send in a CV for a job but don’t bother to spell check it or check their grammar properly.
Point being that if their attention to detail on something as important as that is poor then it’s potentially an indication of how they will deliver in their role.
Elderly generations don’t tend to use the internet that much, but bear in mind it could be construed as a little insulting as you’d hope some could find the zoom function in their browser
.Edited by mrnoisy78 on Friday 22 December 07:09
To be fair this doesn't share the other common typical faux pas so if they want to post in upper case leave them be
Mr Tidy said:
forzaminardi said:
There won't be a better car for the price. I've had a non-TSport 190 and a TSport. Both excellent cars, good to drive, reliable, pretty practical. Still great looking today in my opinion.
There probably will - PH just need to find a 325ti Compact in their adverts that is within budget (there have been plenty on Autotrader within current "Shed" budget)!"Only" 192 bhp, but RWD - much better idea!
Photo added especially for the benefit of "toyoda"!
Edited by Mr Tidy on Saturday 16th December 01:28
My favourite generation Celica is the 4th one which was around in the mid to late 80s. Simple styling. Pity they were rot boxes as no decent ones were around when I was old enough to be able to look for something a bit more powerful without being stung for insurance.
The original first generation was nice too.
Of course, I’m thinking more about styling than oomph here, but Toyota and other Japanese performance cars peaked in styling in the late 80s and early 90s.
Today, Japanese cars are far too overstyled with awkward creases and stick on crack. The Civic is awful. To some it may look the dogs but they will date very quickly.
The original first generation was nice too.
Of course, I’m thinking more about styling than oomph here, but Toyota and other Japanese performance cars peaked in styling in the late 80s and early 90s.
Today, Japanese cars are far too overstyled with awkward creases and stick on crack. The Civic is awful. To some it may look the dogs but they will date very quickly.
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