RE: Next BMW M3 spy shots
Discussion
Be interesting to see the worldwide sales figures of this f80 m3/m4 vs Alfa vs rs4 vs c63 (inc S and estate)
I had a look but hard to get figures
People here may say 475 or whatever isn’t enough power but it’s what people buying these cars new want is more important to manufacturers
Personally I’d happily loose some bhp if it was lighter than competition. This car supposedly will be lighter than f80 which is already lighter than its competitors
Saying that I’d prefer it was another 100kg lighter even if it lost 100bhp. But market dictates it won’t be
I had a look but hard to get figures
People here may say 475 or whatever isn’t enough power but it’s what people buying these cars new want is more important to manufacturers
Personally I’d happily loose some bhp if it was lighter than competition. This car supposedly will be lighter than f80 which is already lighter than its competitors
Saying that I’d prefer it was another 100kg lighter even if it lost 100bhp. But market dictates it won’t be
Edited by D200 on Tuesday 19th December 14:49
Iceicebsby1980 said:
Shedding weight worked for the e46 m3 csl
It didn't work in terms of salesAlso, it didn't lose a huge amount of weight, although in quite a few cases it was more about from where the weight was lost e.g. the carbon roof. These tricks have been rolled out to the standard M3 by now, so it does make me wonder where the weight in a more modern CSL version would be lost from. Lighter seats obviously, by after that?
And they're not going to be able to make it any smaller, as for me the E46 was about as large as I'd want to go for a car like the CSL. IMO we're at the same point with the M3/4 now as the M5 was 20-odd years ago, and there wasn't much call for a CSL version of that
M2 CSL on the other hand...
D200 said:
Be interesting to see the worldwide sales figures of this f80 m3/m4 vs Alfa vs rs4 vs c63 (inc S and estate)
I had a look but hard to get figures
People here may say 475 or whatever isn’t enough power but it’s what people buying these cars new want is more important to manufacturers
Global sales of the F80/2/3 stood at 68,000 units by Aug 2017.I had a look but hard to get figures
People here may say 475 or whatever isn’t enough power but it’s what people buying these cars new want is more important to manufacturers
D200 said:
Be interesting to see the worldwide sales figures of this f80 m3/m4 vs Alfa vs rs4 vs c63 (inc S and estate)
I had a look but hard to get figures
People here may say 475 or whatever isn’t enough power but it’s what people buying these cars new want is more important to manufacturers
But, BMW have trailed in the power stakes for yeeaaaars... M division hasn't gone out of business. I had a look but hard to get figures
People here may say 475 or whatever isn’t enough power but it’s what people buying these cars new want is more important to manufacturers
What you say is true of a some in the M3/C Class segment. But not for everyone. Some will want headline power and 0-60 numbers.
Others as they do now will appreciate the BMW way... For some, BMW could bring it with 580 and they wouldn't buy it because they wouldn't buy a BMW.
Of course manufactures follow trends, take note of what people wan.t BMW knows, contrary to what you believe, the most power isn't the be all and end all to everyone.
chappardababbar said:
This goes for all cars but what I'd really like manufacturers to focus on is:
- Better steering feel
- Better, more natural sound. I mean really focus on the acoustics as a priority
- Lighter weight
- Really nice ride quality
- Awesome in car connectivity
One of those is not like the others.- Better steering feel
- Better, more natural sound. I mean really focus on the acoustics as a priority
- Lighter weight
- Really nice ride quality
- Awesome in car connectivity
No doubt there will be a comp pack to raise performance to ~500 BHP available shortly after launch, complete with even larger wheels, essential handling fixes, and a raspy exhaust. I'm sure this will appeal to those who top trumps matter as well as those who appreciate the handling fixes.
I don't see the point with BMW trying to compete with Merc for out right power, the V8 in the Merc can always be swapped rather quickly for the ~600 BHP one out of the E63s, and likely can be tuned considerably harder than that without too much effort. No point for BMW to enter into a horsepower war with Merc when Merc have ready to go options if needed.
HighwayStar said:
But, BMW have trailed in the power stakes for yeeaaaars... M division hasn't gone out of business.
What you say is true of a some in the M3/C Class segment. But not for everyone. Some will want headline power and 0-60 numbers.
Others as they do now will appreciate the BMW way... For some, BMW could bring it with 580 and they wouldn't buy it because they wouldn't buy a BMW.
Of course manufactures follow trends, take note of what people wan.t BMW knows, contrary to what you believe, the most power isn't the be all and end all to everyone.
FFS What do you mean ‘contrary to what you believe’ that is what I’m saying power isn’t everything. As I said I’d sacrifice 100 more bhp for less weight. What you say is true of a some in the M3/C Class segment. But not for everyone. Some will want headline power and 0-60 numbers.
Others as they do now will appreciate the BMW way... For some, BMW could bring it with 580 and they wouldn't buy it because they wouldn't buy a BMW.
Of course manufactures follow trends, take note of what people wan.t BMW knows, contrary to what you believe, the most power isn't the be all and end all to everyone.
2.5 straight 6 twin turbo upfront with around 380 bhp and batteries over the rear wheels to add another 70 bhp and help with traction. 300 section rear tires. 19 inch wheels with matching smaller arches. I don't care if the boot is a little smaller. Less weight at the front, more at the back and overall a bit lighter please.
Leins said:
It didn't work in terms of sales
Also, it didn't lose a huge amount of weight, although in quite a few cases it was more about from where the weight was lost e.g. the carbon roof. These tricks have been rolled out to the standard M3 by now, so it does make me wonder where the weight in a more modern CSL version would be lost from. Lighter seats obviously, by after that?
And they're not going to be able to make it any smaller, as for me the E46 was about as large as I'd want to go for a car like the CSL. IMO we're at the same point with the M3/4 now as the M5 was 20-odd years ago, and there wasn't much call for a CSL version of that
M2 CSL on the other hand...
Agreed. The M3/4 is too big to be considered just a sports car anymore, I think the M2 takes over that role. It's just a shame that BMW is aiming to dilute the M badge so much by slapping it on every model they have. Also, it didn't lose a huge amount of weight, although in quite a few cases it was more about from where the weight was lost e.g. the carbon roof. These tricks have been rolled out to the standard M3 by now, so it does make me wonder where the weight in a more modern CSL version would be lost from. Lighter seats obviously, by after that?
And they're not going to be able to make it any smaller, as for me the E46 was about as large as I'd want to go for a car like the CSL. IMO we're at the same point with the M3/4 now as the M5 was 20-odd years ago, and there wasn't much call for a CSL version of that
M2 CSL on the other hand...
D200 said:
HighwayStar said:
But, BMW have trailed in the power stakes for yeeaaaars... M division hasn't gone out of business.
What you say is true of a some in the M3/C Class segment. But not for everyone. Some will want headline power and 0-60 numbers.
Others as they do now will appreciate the BMW way... For some, BMW could bring it with 580 and they wouldn't buy it because they wouldn't buy a BMW.
Of course manufactures follow trends, take note of what people wan.t BMW knows, contrary to what you believe, the most power isn't the be all and end all to everyone.
FFS What do you mean ‘contrary to what you believe’ that is what I’m saying power isn’t everything. As I said I’d sacrifice 100 more bhp for less weight. What you say is true of a some in the M3/C Class segment. But not for everyone. Some will want headline power and 0-60 numbers.
Others as they do now will appreciate the BMW way... For some, BMW could bring it with 580 and they wouldn't buy it because they wouldn't buy a BMW.
Of course manufactures follow trends, take note of what people wan.t BMW knows, contrary to what you believe, the most power isn't the be all and end all to everyone.
'People here may say 475 or whatever isn’t enough power but it’s what people buying these cars new want is more important to manufacturers.'
I saw you are one of the less is more contingent. BMW aren't, can't, lop the kind of weight you off you'd like, not with the car getting bigger again but.. They are sticking to their principle of lighter and more dynamic that their immediate competition... Obviously the Alfa QF has stirred things up.
jon-yprpe said:
Both a mate and I had the F80 M3 and the M4 respectively and both of us got rid after around 5 months. The last thing the F8X needs is more power, the problem was is was just utterly boring to drive (both were DCT). Doing 100mph felt like doing 50mph, and without any real feeling at all. It needs to be more involving to drive, and without the stupid piped engine noise. My F80 was such a crushing dissapointment after owning an E46 M3 many years ago. Especially as the F80 is a stunning looking car.
Rear traction issues were sorted with the MY15 revamp, but you do have 425bhp going through the rear wheels, so what do you expect....
That's where the Alfa Giulia steps in, I would argue it answers all of those questions.Rear traction issues were sorted with the MY15 revamp, but you do have 425bhp going through the rear wheels, so what do you expect....
Plus it feels just a little too lard arse for my liking. Only an imbecile buys a car due to BHP - its as simple as that.
Buy a car that you enjoy driving, not one where you have to tell people 'ooh its 400bhp' to justify your pathetic existence.
Maybe drive a 400bhp M3, then get in a 25yr old 116bhp MX5 on the same track and see which one is actually a better drivers car. From what i can tell people who love bhp are also the same people who crave 0-60 times, but havent figured out yet what to do when they get to a corner.
Buy a car that you enjoy driving, not one where you have to tell people 'ooh its 400bhp' to justify your pathetic existence.
Maybe drive a 400bhp M3, then get in a 25yr old 116bhp MX5 on the same track and see which one is actually a better drivers car. From what i can tell people who love bhp are also the same people who crave 0-60 times, but havent figured out yet what to do when they get to a corner.
I didn’t buy my F8x CP for the outright power/0-60 time as I t’s completely irrelevant on the road.
The current CP cars are supposedly 450bhp at the flywheel but dyno figures suggest that might be closer to being the bhp at the wheels, so 475bhp wouldn’t be much, if anything, of a hike. But of course the numbers are something to print in brochures and talk about in the press.
Try pushing an F8x hard on the road and I doubt you would get out talking about needing more power. Once you get to the sort of power being discussed another 25bhp is just lost in the tyre smoke with the rest of it.
The current CP cars are supposedly 450bhp at the flywheel but dyno figures suggest that might be closer to being the bhp at the wheels, so 475bhp wouldn’t be much, if anything, of a hike. But of course the numbers are something to print in brochures and talk about in the press.
Try pushing an F8x hard on the road and I doubt you would get out talking about needing more power. Once you get to the sort of power being discussed another 25bhp is just lost in the tyre smoke with the rest of it.
HighwayStar said:
Chill D... it's just a discussion, I was referring to the bit I highlighted in bold... it should really have been the whole line....
'People here may say 475 or whatever isn’t enough power but it’s what people buying these cars new want is more important to manufacturers.'
I saw you are one of the less is more contingent. BMW aren't, can't, lop the kind of weight you off you'd like, not with the car getting bigger again but.. They are sticking to their principle of lighter and more dynamic that their immediate competition... Obviously the Alfa QF has stirred things up.
Yeah but you sort of immediately into you are wrong I’m right mode but maybe this wasn’t intended - as we appear to agree 'People here may say 475 or whatever isn’t enough power but it’s what people buying these cars new want is more important to manufacturers.'
I saw you are one of the less is more contingent. BMW aren't, can't, lop the kind of weight you off you'd like, not with the car getting bigger again but.. They are sticking to their principle of lighter and more dynamic that their immediate competition... Obviously the Alfa QF has stirred things up.
That’s why I love to see worldwide comparison figures of these 4 cars. While Alfa is good car I doubt it’s selling as well as others, based on the number you see on the road in the uk anyway?
I think also see more m3/4s than c63s?
Ursicles said:
Only an imbecile buys a car due to BHP - its as simple as that.
Buy a car that you enjoy driving, not one where you have to tell people 'ooh its 400bhp' to justify your pathetic existence.
Maybe drive a 400bhp M3, then get in a 25yr old 116bhp MX5 on the same track and see which one is actually a better drivers car. From what i can tell people who love bhp are also the same people who crave 0-60 times, but havent figured out yet what to do when they get to a corner.
That's one way of looking at it, but overpowered muscle cars can be fun. Buy a car that you enjoy driving, not one where you have to tell people 'ooh its 400bhp' to justify your pathetic existence.
Maybe drive a 400bhp M3, then get in a 25yr old 116bhp MX5 on the same track and see which one is actually a better drivers car. From what i can tell people who love bhp are also the same people who crave 0-60 times, but havent figured out yet what to do when they get to a corner.
A good drivers car is not about bhp, I agree on that, but crazy bhp sure can be exciting too!
Maybe take your MX5 back to the hair dressing salon?
D200 said:
HighwayStar said:
Chill D... it's just a discussion, I was referring to the bit I highlighted in bold... it should really have been the whole line....
'People here may say 475 or whatever isn’t enough power but it’s what people buying these cars new want is more important to manufacturers.'
I saw you are one of the less is more contingent. BMW aren't, can't, lop the kind of weight you off you'd like, not with the car getting bigger again but.. They are sticking to their principle of lighter and more dynamic that their immediate competition... Obviously the Alfa QF has stirred things up.
Yeah but you sort of immediately into you are wrong I’m right mode but maybe this wasn’t intended - as we appear to agree 'People here may say 475 or whatever isn’t enough power but it’s what people buying these cars new want is more important to manufacturers.'
I saw you are one of the less is more contingent. BMW aren't, can't, lop the kind of weight you off you'd like, not with the car getting bigger again but.. They are sticking to their principle of lighter and more dynamic that their immediate competition... Obviously the Alfa QF has stirred things up.
That’s why I love to see worldwide comparison figures of these 4 cars. While Alfa is good car I doubt it’s selling as well as others, based on the number you see on the road in the uk anyway?
I think also see more m3/4s than c63s?
The Alfa is a rare car... I’ve seen two. One last year in Wales, the driver was most definitely on it. Very composed. The other in the carpark of my gym/sports centre. Not seen the lesser models at all.
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