best sounding v8s ever?

[Hungrymc]

I often think it’s wrong to group all V8s together. Flat plane / cross plane makes for very different sound. Depends if you like a throbber or a screamer.

(I like a throbber......erm)

[3528]

Mastodon2 said:

This thing, one of my favourite race cars ever.

Is that the C11? If so, there's a great video of it at Monza on YouTube. One of the best-sounding V8 videos I can think of on there. I'm sure you've seen it!

[3528]

Huskyman said:

There is two parts to this, the engine produces the primary noise as a by product of combustion, the exhaust silencing has an effect on the volume levels. A flat plane crank V8 sounds different because the power pulses are at 90 degrees to each other whereas a cross plane crank has power pulses at 90 and 180 degrees giving the distinctive rumble.
However an exhaust can be manipulated in the size of the pipes and the configuration of the manifolds can change the tone.

My old 928 cat delete with emptied silencers sounded immense at full chat

Apologies in advance for a long post as I can't prevent myself any longer from getting started on this.

This subject drove me mad for a good number of years until I got to the bottom of it. As you say, the exhaust configuration plays a huge part in the overall sound. What stumped me was why some Ferraris with flat-plane cranks sounded excellent (more like a 'proper' V8) whereas most others sound exactly like a four-cylinder engine, as you might expect from a flat-plane firing order. Then to add to the confusion, some aftermarket exhausts fitted to the the four-cylinder-sounding Ferraris (e.g. the 360) made them sound great - with a V8 sound.

The ones that spring to mind that sound (to me) like V8s as standard are the 348 and the 355.

Also, initially I couldn't work out why most V8 racing engines (e.g. Judd and Cosworth) sounded like four-cylinder engines in most installations, but in a few they sounded great. The answer, it seems, is all down to the exhaust. The ones that sound (to me) 'great' - like V8s - have what amounts to an eight-into-one exhaust, or perhaps more specifically a single tailpipe. F1 V8 versus GP2 sound, for instance: four-cylinder sound versus V8 sound to my ears. The answer turns out to be separate exhausts per cylinder bank versus both sides combined into a single tailpipe. World Series Formula V8 3.5s sound great too, and it turns out they have a single tailpipe.

I concluded that a flat-plane V8 with either an eight-into-one exhaust, or a single tailpipe (as opposed to two separate exhausts - one per cylinder bank) changes the sound from four-cylinder to what I would call 'V8', or perhaps at least 'non-four-cylinder'. This seems to apply to the Ferrari exhaust mystery above. I suspect that the configuration of some aftermarket exhausts for Ferraris joins the two sides at some point and produces the V8 sound. The 360 Challenge Stradale, for example sounds awful to me - like a Fiat Croma with broken exhaust revving its nuts off - whereas a 360 with an Innotech exhaust has a V8 sound. Some are in between, such as the Capristo or Tubi exhausts, which provide a non-four-cylinder but nearly-V8 sound - more of a warbling sound, which is okay to my ears. Furthermore, some F40s sound 'four-cylinder' to me, but some sound more like a 355, with the V8 sound. I presume that's down to different exhaust systems fitted.

The Ferrari California with standard exhaust sounds very nearly four-cylinder to me (not quite), but with an Armytrix exhaust it sounds like a V8. I've had a look at both systems to try to compare, but the difference isn't clear. I presume the Armytrix is creating that single tailpipe effect somewhere in the system by joining both sides in such a way as to create the V8 sound.

Another example of a flat-plane V8 that sounded great, with a V8 sound, was Georg Plasa's Judd-engined BMW 134 hill climb car. I couldn't work out why this didn't have the more common four-cylinder sound, until I discovered that the exhaust system had a single tailpipe in the centre. Mystery solved. Just like the GP2 and World Series Formula V8 3.5 cars.

With (mainly American) crossplane V8s, there are some variations in the sound according to 'engine architecture' (for want of a less-pretentious term), such as the Ford Y-Block's stacked intake ports, or the Buick Nailhead's long, tortuous exhaust ports that necessitate a high-lift long-duration cam; but generally speaking I have noticed that crossplane V8 sound is affected mostly by the exhaust configuration. For example, GT40s or Panteras with crossover exhaust system (or '180-degree headers' as the Americans often call them) make them sound like a flat-plane Ferrari with a V8 sound (i.e. 355, 348 standard; or others with non-standard exhaust). Some crossplane V8s with '180-degree headers' where the engine is front-mounted actually sound very nearly like a four-cylinder engine. The only thing I can think of that causes the sound difference when compared with a mid-engined V8 with '180-degree headers' is the tailpipe placement: next to each other in the centre for the GT40 and Pantera, but separated far-left and far-right for the front-engined cars that I have heard. In the case of tailpipe placement, I surmise that the GT40 and Pantera twin tailpipes in close proximity are creating a sort-of single tailpipe sound effect, as discussed above.

Crossplane V8s with side-pipes (e.g. AC Cobras), where you are effectively hearing one cylinder bank more clearly than the other always sound really good to me - very 'staccato' when compared with a non-sidepipe equivalent. Interestingly, a crossplane V8 with one bank not firing at all (and therefore effectively a four-cylinder) still sounds like a V8, whereas a Yamaha YZF-R1 four-cylinder crossplane, which is effectively half of a crossplane V8, doesn't sound (to me) like a crossplane V8 - although it does sound very nice.

Another variation in V8 sound that I have heard is when crossplane V8s are fitted with an eight-into-one manifold, as you see on some off-road buggies and sandrails. Those have a very similar sound to a GT40 or Pantera with crossover manifolds - but not quite - and some sound more like a Ferrari 355 or 348. Basically a flat-plane sound when both banks are connected via a single tailpipe.

Apologies again for the long post. Perhaps my rambling will be of some use to fellow obsessives.

[3528]

aeropilot said:

This is the owners own Model A coupe with blown Rocket power, and I've heard this car up close and it's one of the best sounding V8's I've ever heard

Fantastic!

[Mastodon2]

3528 said:

Mastodon2 said:

This thing, one of my favourite race cars ever.

Is that the C11? If so, there's a great video of it at Monza on YouTube. One of the best-sounding V8 videos I can think of on there. I'm sure you've seen it!

It's a Sauber Mercedes C9 in the picture, but the C9 and C11 shared the same engine. Amazing, wondrous things.

[coppice]

I once interviewed Bob Berridge about driving the Mercedes. He told me he learned all his driving skills by thrashing the arse off a Hillman Imp around the streets of Stockton on Tees - but the man done good - check him out driving the Merc at Spa on youtube as well .

Seen the car many times on track and I have never heard a better sounding V8 Turbo .

[kuro]

Mastodon2 said:

3528 said:

Mastodon2 said:

This thing, one of my favourite race cars ever.

Is that the C11? If so, there's a great video of it at Monza on YouTube. One of the best-sounding V8 videos I can think of on there. I'm sure you've seen it!

It's a Sauber Mercedes C9 in the picture, but the C9 and C11 shared the same engine. Amazing, wondrous things.

I was wondering when the c9 would be mentioned.

[V8 FOU]

At the risk of being flamed.......

As my username suggests, I have 1or 2 V8:s

Range Rover 4.6 - not the best sounding V8, but a really great engine and does the equivalent of 28+ mpg on gas.
Ford F350 Powerstroke 7.3 diesel, chipped to 450bhp. Sounds really good, although a bit harsh.
Bentley Turbo R trackday car - havent started it for a few months, but started it yesterday. Brilliant, brilliant engine - with a 4500rpm red line!! All steel bottom end.
Lotus Excel with Lexus 1 UZFE on throttle bodies - really screams!
1956 GMC Van with 440 big block. Best sounding V8, favourite vehicle, etc

[SonicShadow]

kuro said:

Mastodon2 said:

3528 said:

Mastodon2 said:

This thing, one of my favourite race cars ever.

Is that the C11? If so, there's a great video of it at Monza on YouTube. One of the best-sounding V8 videos I can think of on there. I'm sure you've seen it!

It's a Sauber Mercedes C9 in the picture, but the C9 and C11 shared the same engine. Amazing, wondrous things.

I was wondering when the c9 would be mentioned.

Where are you manners guys? You can't mention the Sauber C9 or C11 or the Monza video without posting it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am68lQsoNaI

[vixen1700]

Remember seeing a beaten up old 1970 TVR Tuscan with a 289 V8 in it at a TVR event in the late 90s and it just sounded immense.

[Gerradi]

My old un...straight pipes to rear box...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhPzdzWUPjk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stYkM3ddsaM

[Hungrymc]

3528 said:

Loads of interesting stuff

Did you look at the actual timing (or phasing) of the ignition pulses relative to each other? Does one have more irregular spacing between ignitions? Both will have 4 Per revolution but I think we have different length gaps between them?

I’m sure I can work it out but can anyone save me the effort? It may be irrelevant anyway but thought I’d ask.

[Valgar]

I love the sound of the Volvo/Yamaha 4.4 V8 with the muffler deleted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAtBr_9VKBk

[peteA]

Great thread

Had a few V8’s - 4 litre chim, awesome 4.2 V8 cerbera in all its decatted, flat plane cranked glory, 5 litre griff, 928S4, F10 M5 and now a supercharged Range Rover (with jag engine).

Really liked the noise of the rover V8 cars but the cerb wins it for me - not sure my neighbours were as keen mind!

Race car - has to be top fuel dragster for pure theatre and drama or maybe ford DFV - heard a few at goodwood...hmmm...difficult...

Edited by peteA on Sunday 24th December 22:09

[JackP1]

360cs gotta be up there

[bongtom]

Actually now I think of it I heard a TVR 350SEAC at a Pistonheads event and it made my innards hurt!

[coppice]

JackP1 said:

360cs gotta be up there

God no- like every other Ferrari V8 it sounds terrible . A chainsaw buzz at best - and compared to a race tuned mouse or rat motor positively effete !

[JCollins]

Ferrari F40 LM wound up to 700hp+

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYYA2jE3Ze0

[peteA]

That F40 - wow!

When did Ferrari V8’s go flat plane crank...355?...or earlier?

I’ve heard a friends 360 CS at close quarters...as in about 2 foot away from my open window as he blasted past and bloody hell its amazing! Not a traditional Muscle car V8 but something altogether different, not better or worse just different so I guess it’s just a preference thing?

[jonnM]

I've always thought this is a great sounding V8...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_gW5Yoqh4M