Do auto boxes really learn your driving style?
Discussion
I saw it mentioned a couple of times in a thread about DSG gearboxes, but this 'auto gearbox learning your driving style' thing that gets mentioned from time to time is a bit of an urban myth isn't it?
When you consider how your 'driving style' changes depending on journey purpose, time of day, passengers or load, whether the vomiting dog or the nervous wife is in the car or not, traffic, location, and a myriad of other factors that are constantly changing, it's not really possible. And that's before you take into account that more than one person may be regularly using the car.
Gearboxes use a huge amount of information these days, from throttle position to steering to how fast you're cornering, whether the car is going up hill or down, even how fast and how far you move the throttle. For example, if I accelerate hard, not just a wide throttle opening but physically move the pedal quickly and then lift off suddenly it will hold the gear rather than shifting up as it normally would, as it figures if you're accelerating that hard and coming off the power that fast you're probably about to slow down. Likewise when powering 'enthusiastically' out of a corner it will hold a gear when I know it would have shifted up under the same loading in a straight line.
But I don't believe for a moment it is considering the driving style yesterday or a week last Tuesday (which may not even have been me driving) in its gear change decision making algorithms.
I know that journos banged on about it for a bit when auto boxes first became electronically controlled years ago, but I suspect that was the result of over enthusiastic media departments over egging the new technology.
When you consider how your 'driving style' changes depending on journey purpose, time of day, passengers or load, whether the vomiting dog or the nervous wife is in the car or not, traffic, location, and a myriad of other factors that are constantly changing, it's not really possible. And that's before you take into account that more than one person may be regularly using the car.
Gearboxes use a huge amount of information these days, from throttle position to steering to how fast you're cornering, whether the car is going up hill or down, even how fast and how far you move the throttle. For example, if I accelerate hard, not just a wide throttle opening but physically move the pedal quickly and then lift off suddenly it will hold the gear rather than shifting up as it normally would, as it figures if you're accelerating that hard and coming off the power that fast you're probably about to slow down. Likewise when powering 'enthusiastically' out of a corner it will hold a gear when I know it would have shifted up under the same loading in a straight line.
But I don't believe for a moment it is considering the driving style yesterday or a week last Tuesday (which may not even have been me driving) in its gear change decision making algorithms.
I know that journos banged on about it for a bit when auto boxes first became electronically controlled years ago, but I suspect that was the result of over enthusiastic media departments over egging the new technology.
HJMS123 said:
The VAG DSG boxes do not learn your driving style ... it's a myth. It's preprogrammed to react in certain manners via the ECU it's as simple as that.
Interesting, particularly as it was a VAG gearbox question that was eliciting comments of 'it needs to learn your driving style' that prompted this thread. The 8HP ZF at least in a BMW does have a degree of learning ability, heck the car remembers the previous 8 weeks of driving (and can produce averages etc.). Hence when I changed jobs my Service manager went changed your driving route or job recently? It scared the s
te out of me.
Also it is GPS linked in the 2nd gen version of mine which can be quite freaky (if a sat nav destination is active as well it will shift down when coming off a motorway to a slip road for example as well).
te out of me.Also it is GPS linked in the 2nd gen version of mine which can be quite freaky (if a sat nav destination is active as well it will shift down when coming off a motorway to a slip road for example as well).
My old Jag XJR does, my driving style is mostly quite relaxed and it changes gear to suit. When I want to press on its still changing way too early so I have to put it into sport mode. Every few years its necessary to get the adaptations flushed out by the jag specialist as the gearbox gets lazy and clunky.
Ninja59 said:
The 8HP ZF at least in a BMW does have a degree of learning ability, heck the car remembers the previous 8 weeks of driving (and can produce averages etc.). Hence when I changed jobs my Service manager went changed your driving route or job recently? It scared the ste out of me.
Also it is GPS linked in the 2nd gen version of mine which can be quite freaky (if a sat nav destination is active as well it will shift down when coming off a motorway to a slip road for example as well).
How would he know? te out of me.Also it is GPS linked in the 2nd gen version of mine which can be quite freaky (if a sat nav destination is active as well it will shift down when coming off a motorway to a slip road for example as well).
Even if it does learn (I honestly can't see what the point of applying eight weeks of averages to a single journey would be given they vary so much), I can't believe it flags up some kind of 'score' to the service manager. Why would it?
Dodsy said:
My old Jag XJR does, my driving style is mostly quite relaxed and it changes gear to suit. When I want to press on its still changing way too early so I have to put it into sport mode. Every few years its necessary to get the adaptations flushed out by the jag specialist as the gearbox gets lazy and clunky.
That's the point of sports mode isn't it? To make the gearbox more responsive and hold the lower gears longer?Pretty sure the same box in the Alfa Giulia does too, but I think it is only doing it over a short period. IE if you drive it 'vigorously' using the paddle shifts when you switch it back (or when it does it by itself, which it does if you haven't touched the paddles for a few minutes) it seems to hold that pattern of driving for a while until it detects that you have calmed down again. its a wonderful piece of kit !.
Ari said:
Interesting, particularly as it was a VAG gearbox question that was eliciting comments of 'it needs to learn your driving style' that prompted this thread.
It'll learn the clutch bite points and adjust those over time.Beyond that, it's variables like road speed, current gear, "sporty\not sporty" selected, up\down hill, throttle position. Not really "learning", just applying a lot of variables to the decisions.
I would have thought that due to emissions gear selection in an automatic will essentially be pre-determined based on a number of inputs. There may be some that do adjust to driving style but I would think they're not going to stray far at all from the calibration that they programmed in to get the emissions result right.
Otispunkmeyer said:
I would have thought that due to emissions gear selection in an automatic will essentially be pre-determined based on a number of inputs. There may be some that do adjust to driving style but I would think they're not going to stray far at all from the calibration that they programmed in to get the emissions result right.
You've not used one recently then?Dodsy said:
My old Jag XJR does, my driving style is mostly quite relaxed and it changes gear to suit. When I want to press on its still changing way too early so I have to put it into sport mode. Every few years its necessary to get the adaptations flushed out by the jag specialist as the gearbox gets lazy and clunky.
I had read that the ZF boxes in the X308 Jaguars and E38 7 series had 'learning' function, and that a reset could be applied (something to do with stepping on the throttle with the electrics on and the engine off) which was supposed to sharpen up the 'box. The Internet says that my Merc 722.6 5 speed box learns your driving style but I don't think it does it's fairly predictable and doesn't seem to do anything different in response to my driving.
Internal adaptions yes for TC clutch wear or solenoid response or whatever but not driving style.
Internal adaptions yes for TC clutch wear or solenoid response or whatever but not driving style.
Loyly said:
I had read that the ZF boxes in the X308 Jaguars and E38 7 series had 'learning' function, and that a reset could be applied (something to do with stepping on the throttle with the electrics on and the engine off) which was supposed to sharpen up the 'box.
That just resets the throttle adaptation, not the gearbox.Ninja59 said:
The 8HP ZF at least in a BMW does have a degree of learning ability, heck the car remembers the previous 8 weeks of driving (and can produce averages etc.). Hence when I changed jobs my Service manager went changed your driving route or job recently? It scared the ste out of me.
Also it is GPS linked in the 2nd gen version of mine which can be quite freaky (if a sat nav destination is active as well it will shift down when coming off a motorway to a slip road for example as well).
Glad you posted this. I was wondering just this the other day. My 66 plate A8 seems to know when to do downshifts for hills and the like. I wondered if this was GPS based and it certainly seems to fit.te out of me.Also it is GPS linked in the 2nd gen version of mine which can be quite freaky (if a sat nav destination is active as well it will shift down when coming off a motorway to a slip road for example as well).
Ari said:
How would he know?
Even if it does learn (I honestly can't see what the point of applying eight weeks of averages to a single journey would be given they vary so much), I can't believe it flags up some kind of 'score' to the service manager. Why would it?
There is a lot of data that can be read from the key, including certain fault codes, coolant temp, outside temp, total fuel level ( and across both tanks if they have two), brake pad depths (based on the wear sensors obviously) and there is even more on the more recent cars.Even if it does learn (I honestly can't see what the point of applying eight weeks of averages to a single journey would be given they vary so much), I can't believe it flags up some kind of 'score' to the service manager. Why would it?
At least with BMW when you go in with a recent car they ask to read the key and ask you bring the most recently used key as it will have the most up to date information.
Ari said:
Pica-Pica said:
Some are GPS active.
Yes indeed, I was reading about that. Very clever - it allows it to 'read' the road ahead so it's not changing up just as you're about to brake for a corner for instance, Downhill, you can engage a low gear (paddles) to use engine braking, useful on long declines, and it will hold that gear. It will change down into a lower gear before a roundabout, allowing you to go through without changing up.
Quite simply I cannot fault the ZF8 sport auto. I was going to say, I wouldn't go back to manual, but I can at any time in the same car!
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