RE: HPI's top 10 future classics
Discussion
DukeDickson said:
A good low mileage Z4C has a good chance. Shame about the irritations like the springs and the slightly iffy interior.
Springs are cheap and the interior is lovely, minimalist with crisp clean lines and well screwed together which is what you want for a potential classic, mine looks as fresh inside as it did on delivery day 11 years ago. WJNB said:
Honda S2000 & Mk1 Mazda MX-5 glaring omissions & now difficult to find examples that have not got into the hands of youngsters who have modified them into tasteless tat.
I've got a MK1 MX5 & you've hit the nail on the head about finding an unmolested example. When I bought mine some eight years ago nice, unmodified examples that were not rusty were easy to find. Not so now! The same fate for the MK1 Audi TT right now as many are being driven into the ground & in just a short time finding a nice one will become increasingly difficult. It's this that will push prices up. The TT will be a classic of the future. Not every 'classic' has to be fantastic to drive, although it does help, but the MK1 TT is nowhere near as bad as some will have you believe. i know as I've got one. If something as mass produced, poorly made & mundane as Mini's & Beetles (I know many people love them!) can be 'classic' then the MK1 TT has to be a good bet.adingley84 said:
culpz said:
Some of these are definitely going to spark up alot of controversy, that's for sure! Here's my view on each:
Westfield - all models, £6,000-£15,000 - Yes but it's not surprising really. Depreciation on such kit cars is practically nil. They can only go one way and it ain't down!
Vauxhall VX220 - all models, £9,000-£13,000 - Yes but, again, not surprising. These have already been steadily rising over the years. Almost guaranteed to go up.
Peugeot 205 - GTI 1.6 and 1.9, £4,000-£9,000 - Yes. Same as the above two. A very obvious one to carry on appreciating over time.
Audi TT - 3.2 V6, £3,000-£6,000 - Not convinced. Not particularly special enough and can still be had sub 3k. Been that way for a while now.
BMW Z3 - all models, £1,500-£6,000 - Not convinced at all. Not as good as the Z4 and they're in the same boat. Not that well received. Only the 2.8 6-cylinders may keep their value, at best.
Citroen C6 - all models, £4,000-£8,000 - Not a chance.
Rover Mini - all models, £3,000-£8,000 - Potentially. Universally loved and a real analogue experience. Getting rare now.
Alfa Romeo GTV - all models, £1,000-£6,000 - Not convinced. Not really that special. Only the 2.5 V6 could swing it for higher values.
Nissan Cube - all models, £2,000-£5,000 - Not a chance.
Mazda RX-8 - all models, £500-£3,000 - Not convinced. They can be had way too cheap for them to rise significantly.
What you've done is agree with the predictions that have already risen in part. The rest you say don't have a chance. Of course the idea of the article is FUTURE classics but never mind. Westfield - all models, £6,000-£15,000 - Yes but it's not surprising really. Depreciation on such kit cars is practically nil. They can only go one way and it ain't down!
Vauxhall VX220 - all models, £9,000-£13,000 - Yes but, again, not surprising. These have already been steadily rising over the years. Almost guaranteed to go up.
Peugeot 205 - GTI 1.6 and 1.9, £4,000-£9,000 - Yes. Same as the above two. A very obvious one to carry on appreciating over time.
Audi TT - 3.2 V6, £3,000-£6,000 - Not convinced. Not particularly special enough and can still be had sub 3k. Been that way for a while now.
BMW Z3 - all models, £1,500-£6,000 - Not convinced at all. Not as good as the Z4 and they're in the same boat. Not that well received. Only the 2.8 6-cylinders may keep their value, at best.
Citroen C6 - all models, £4,000-£8,000 - Not a chance.
Rover Mini - all models, £3,000-£8,000 - Potentially. Universally loved and a real analogue experience. Getting rare now.
Alfa Romeo GTV - all models, £1,000-£6,000 - Not convinced. Not really that special. Only the 2.5 V6 could swing it for higher values.
Nissan Cube - all models, £2,000-£5,000 - Not a chance.
Mazda RX-8 - all models, £500-£3,000 - Not convinced. They can be had way too cheap for them to rise significantly.
Exactly. The ones that i have put "no chance" next to, are my disagreement that they will, in fact, become future classics. I'm really not sure how that is so difficult for you to comprehend?
shrs2000 said:
WJNB said:
Honda S2000 & Mk1 Mazda MX-5 glaring omissions & now difficult to find examples that have not got into the hands of youngsters who have modified them into tasteless tat.
I've got a MK1 MX5 & you've hit the nail on the head about finding an unmolested example. When I bought mine some eight years ago nice, unmodified examples that were not rusty were easy to find. Not so now! The same fate for the MK1 Audi TT right now as many are being driven into the ground & in just a short time finding a nice one will become increasingly difficult. It's this that will push prices up. The TT will be a classic of the future. Not every 'classic' has to be fantastic to drive, although it does help, but the MK1 TT is nowhere near as bad as some will have you believe. i know as I've got one. If something as mass produced, poorly made & mundane as Mini's & Beetles (I know many people love them!) can be 'classic' then the MK1 TT has to be a good bet.TT's dont suffer with the galloping structural rust like MX5's do, maybe a bit on wing edges but cant find any info about rotten chassis like with MX'5, however the MX5 has more simpler and more robust mechanicals, I went to see one that the owner said was rot free, it wasnt, not by a long stretch.
Mine is sixteen years old which is past the end of its design life really, the previous owner spent two grand on head gasket, cam belt, water pump, brakes, suspension etc, that left me with the driver door lock to sort, battery, two tyres and the wipers conked out, I got a really good s/h wiper unit for £80 and fitted it myself, from Audi a new one is £330, a specialist will charge two hours labour, so its a £400 plus job. Have done loads of other bits and its working ok now but dont buy cars this age and expect not to have issues, and if you cant sort them yourself, then its going to be very expensive.
The TT is perhaps not the car to buy and expect hassle free motoring day to day, same with most cars at this age, throw rust into the mix and its easy to end up with a money pit or something you sell for parts or a project, then scuttle off for a nice PCP on lovely, new, shiny car where everything works and its someone elses problem if it breaks.
I paid £2100 for my TT, it now stands me at £3032, will run it for a while and once I have University, house and some other stuff sorted I will buy something new, an itch is being scratched here, but can see I wont make money, might get the purchase price back but depends what the market is like, might end up getting £1500.
All the cars listed will do this to a greater or lesser extent given half a chance, its easy to get five grand into a two grand car, then you are stuck with it.
I agree that most of the cars listed will become classics.
RX-8, likely to be last wankel engine car, certainly the last n/a one. Sure prices are low now, but cars are dying at a fast rate due to the engine detonation issue so in time they will be prized. They are wonderful cars to drive..ten years from now prices will be higher...
Citroen C6...absolutely! Look at the values of the DS and CX........ its the last proper old school style Citroen...
Audi TT. Yep, I agree these will be sought after as a design classic from the 90s.....far prettier than the current model IMHO.
Alfa GTV..yep. People say they aren't special but they look different and people tend to appreciate Alfas when they become older...
Nissan Cube. Yep, for quirky reasons I can see these become valuable......
People need to stop judging cars by their road test performance when they were new. Look at the current prices of all those old Fords from the 80s and early 90s, which were rubbish to drive when new relative to the competition (XR3i, Capri etc..)...
dazzx10r said:
These are my tips. VW Corrado 16v G60 & VR6, Clio 182 trophy &197, Racing Puma, GC8 Impreza especialy Bugeye STI
All of those except the 197 and Impreza have been rising fast for 2 or 3 years now. Be a long long time before 197 appreciates - Mint 182 Cups are only just bottoming out and the non - cups are all but worthless, mint late 200 Cups will be the ones to keep. Bugeye is a decent car but can't see them ever being anything but the least valuable of all the Impreza shapes bar the last one.Was thinking of a similar list whilst browsing old Porsche Boxsters last night.
Speedsters are retailing for around £25k, which way will they go...?
Original (Good) TT Mk1's will be like Hens teeth. I remember the storm they created when they first launched, a genuine milestone in automotive design, so it's inevitable. If you can find one of the first without the revised rear spoiler, even better.
Speedsters are retailing for around £25k, which way will they go...?
Original (Good) TT Mk1's will be like Hens teeth. I remember the storm they created when they first launched, a genuine milestone in automotive design, so it's inevitable. If you can find one of the first without the revised rear spoiler, even better.
350z? Nicer looking than the TT for sure and that's from someone who always thought the TT looked amazing until I saw my first 350z. Prices are about rock bottom for them now, perhaps slightly too many still on the road but sure to start climbing especially the well looked after ones. Mines about to tick over to 100k so probably not going to be mine but they always seemed fairly desirable and keeping them ticking was reasonably easy
Notanotherturbo said:
Any of the cars that are £500 plus a year to tax will find it hard too, it's hard to justify that for a car used sparingly. I only allow myself one £500 car in my little collection.
The way to do it with any of these is to put them on limited mileage, agreed value insurance & only tax them a month at a time via direct debit. Cost of tax then works out much cheaper. Also keeps the mileage down & keeps them off the road in Winter when all the damage is done. Downside. Winter withdrawal symptoms from not driving them! 
MDMetal said:
350z? Nicer looking than the TT for sure and that's from someone who always thought the TT looked amazing until I saw my first 350z. Prices are about rock bottom for them now, perhaps slightly too many still on the road but sure to start climbing especially the well looked after ones. Mines about to tick over to 100k so probably not going to be mine but they always seemed fairly desirable and keeping them ticking was reasonably easy
Had both, the 350Z is a much more resilient car, even allowing for the fact my 350Z was newer and lower mileage, they generally dont break as often as the TT, its a fairly solid N/A V6 and they were built well, much less in the way of niggly faults.Looks are subjective, I prefer the TT looks wise, but a lot depends on colour, wheels and just how they sit on the road but the basic shape of the TT I think is preferable.
The 350Z is a good shout, a tidy, original UK coupe, pre 2006 to avoid the £500 odd ved would be a good buy and should not bankrupt you, heavy on fuel but to be honest, so is the TT
J4CKO said:
I am enjoying my TT but I came from a "Barge" so it feels small and nimble, if comparatively slow, but its quick enough for most situations, remap incoming..
TT's dont suffer with the galloping structural rust like MX5's do, maybe a bit on wing edges but cant find any info about rotten chassis like with MX'5, however the MX5 has more simpler and more robust mechanicals, I went to see one that the owner said was rot free, it wasnt, not by a long stretch.
Mine is sixteen years old which is past the end of its design life really, the previous owner spent two grand on head gasket, cam belt, water pump, brakes, suspension etc, that left me with the driver door lock to sort, battery, two tyres and the wipers conked out, I got a really good s/h wiper unit for £80 and fitted it myself, from Audi a new one is £330, a specialist will charge two hours labour, so its a £400 plus job. Have done loads of other bits and its working ok now but dont buy cars this age and expect not to have issues, and if you cant sort them yourself, then its going to be very expensive.
The TT is perhaps not the car to buy and expect hassle free motoring day to day, same with most cars at this age, throw rust into the mix and its easy to end up with a money pit or something you sell for parts or a project, then scuttle off for a nice PCP on lovely, new, shiny car where everything works and its someone elses problem if it breaks.
I paid £2100 for my TT, it now stands me at £3032, will run it for a while and once I have University, house and some other stuff sorted I will buy something new, an itch is being scratched here, but can see I wont make money, might get the purchase price back but depends what the market is like, might end up getting £1500.
All the cars listed will do this to a greater or lesser extent given half a chance, its easy to get five grand into a two grand car, then you are stuck with it.
Agreed. MK1 TT's are getting on a bit now & many will soon reach the point where many owners will judge them uneconomic to keep going. I've had mine two years but only done about three thousand miles in it & in that time I've had to replace the thermostat & temp sensor (very common) & the CD player with a NOS one as that packed in & a battery. Other than that it's been relatively trouble free. It's a standard 225 with 66,000 miles on it & still feels like a new car despite being fifteen years old!TT's dont suffer with the galloping structural rust like MX5's do, maybe a bit on wing edges but cant find any info about rotten chassis like with MX'5, however the MX5 has more simpler and more robust mechanicals, I went to see one that the owner said was rot free, it wasnt, not by a long stretch.
Mine is sixteen years old which is past the end of its design life really, the previous owner spent two grand on head gasket, cam belt, water pump, brakes, suspension etc, that left me with the driver door lock to sort, battery, two tyres and the wipers conked out, I got a really good s/h wiper unit for £80 and fitted it myself, from Audi a new one is £330, a specialist will charge two hours labour, so its a £400 plus job. Have done loads of other bits and its working ok now but dont buy cars this age and expect not to have issues, and if you cant sort them yourself, then its going to be very expensive.
The TT is perhaps not the car to buy and expect hassle free motoring day to day, same with most cars at this age, throw rust into the mix and its easy to end up with a money pit or something you sell for parts or a project, then scuttle off for a nice PCP on lovely, new, shiny car where everything works and its someone elses problem if it breaks.
I paid £2100 for my TT, it now stands me at £3032, will run it for a while and once I have University, house and some other stuff sorted I will buy something new, an itch is being scratched here, but can see I wont make money, might get the purchase price back but depends what the market is like, might end up getting £1500.
All the cars listed will do this to a greater or lesser extent given half a chance, its easy to get five grand into a two grand car, then you are stuck with it.
Criteria for a future classic:
1. Fun to drive
2. Offers something that is better/cheaper than you can buy today
3. Limited supply and increasing demand
That takes me to: manual gearbox, a lighter car, perhaps 6+ cylinders, limited edition, perhaps open top, great handling, non-electric steering, character
Five for my list:
1. E46 M3 (convertible)
2. Boxster (6 cylinder)
3. Evo 5/6/7/8/9, especially FQ (6 TME is already classic money)
4. Audi R8 V8
5. I think the S2000 will do well too - the perfect 'next car' after an MX-5
1. Fun to drive
2. Offers something that is better/cheaper than you can buy today
3. Limited supply and increasing demand
That takes me to: manual gearbox, a lighter car, perhaps 6+ cylinders, limited edition, perhaps open top, great handling, non-electric steering, character
Five for my list:
1. E46 M3 (convertible)
2. Boxster (6 cylinder)
3. Evo 5/6/7/8/9, especially FQ (6 TME is already classic money)
4. Audi R8 V8
5. I think the S2000 will do well too - the perfect 'next car' after an MX-5
Meanwhile i'd like the classic car market to crash
Gives enthusiasts an actual chance to own some of their heroes.
I'll throw in my 50p by saying i think any performance Japanese metal will go up.
Celica GT4s , Supras , Skylines (Already happening!) , Evos etc
The Gran Turismo generation has reached a point where it has cash to spend now!
Gives enthusiasts an actual chance to own some of their heroes.
I'll throw in my 50p by saying i think any performance Japanese metal will go up.
Celica GT4s , Supras , Skylines (Already happening!) , Evos etc
The Gran Turismo generation has reached a point where it has cash to spend now!
I had a Mazda RX8 (230) it was just brilliant to live with and to drive.. But it did have starting problems spares were very reasonable to obtain from the US. it deserves to be a classic for its style and its drive ability. Well put together but the 180 with a single port twin rotor is actaully more reliable than the twin port 230. .. One car missing i think is the Crossfire. We have a 33000 mile one n black bought for £5000 over two years ago my wife loves it. very practical fast and all Merc parts . People comment all the time about how god it looks.
A previous posted pointed out that production numbers are a key criteria in classicification, and have been overlooked. For instance, the Figaro/Cube comparison overlooks the fact that the Figaro was a one-year-only model, whereas the Cube sold from 2002-08 in fairly large numbers. We think of it as a rare car because they're rare in the UK, but the total pool available is quite large. If demand increases, rather than price rises I'd just expect to see more people importing them at the same price. Plus, it's relatively hard for a car that most people have never heard of to become a classic, and I think the Cube is fairly unknown outside Japan.
I'm saying all this even having driven a Cube and liking it a lot, I think it's pretty cool, I just don't see it as an investment.
The original Lexus SC400 could be one to rise, it's getting scarce and is both distinctive and distinguished; the LS400 too, perhaps.
I wonder if the just-out-of-production Scirocco might rise in the future? It's quite a looker and apparently a decent drive.
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