Insurance for a 17yr old with out black box. Is it possible?
Discussion
speedyguy said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Because it isn't free to supply/install/monitor, and because experienced drivers have a track record to demonstrate risk.
It will come whatever and the end user will pay for it, Think smart meters.Still don't see it happening for those of us who are low enough risk, do you?
I know a grand total of one grown adult who's had to have telematics. And that was only for the first year after he got his licence back from a careless ban after stuffing a borrowed car.
TooMany2cvs said:
speedyguy said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Because it isn't free to supply/install/monitor, and because experienced drivers have a track record to demonstrate risk.
It will come whatever and the end user will pay for it, Think smart meters.Still don't see it happening for those of us who are low enough risk, do you?
I know a grand total of one grown adult who's had to have telematics. And that was only for the first year after he got his licence back from a careless ban after stuffing a borrowed car.
A black box allows careful new drivers to prove themselves without the need to have a track record. They can then get cheaper insurance up front. Cheaper Insurance gives an insurance company a competitive edge.
My insurance is less than £300 a year. How much cheaper can it be? The cost to the insurer and the savings to me make it uneconomical. I would also prefer not to have a black box so will pay the slightly higher premium because the difference is so small.
Edited by 98elise on Sunday 24th December 10:09
Black box 'seems' a good idea, but was no good for my daughter , who needed to use her cars for shift work ( summer job) so would have travelled in the bad times. Also, not saying we drive like saints, but it would have penalised us parents for using it. Pointless saying the insurance costs , as she is now 24 , so a few years ago. She hasnt crashed, caused accidents and didnt have a black box.
My 17yr old son didn't want the black box, I said that was OK as long as he stumped up the extra 3k to insure without one.
He has the black box now.
I can view online how he's getting on if I like, I don't but it's there.
A friend of his has had 2 'red marks' apparently, another and he'll be cancelled and pretty much uninsurable I'd think - he drives like a berk though and is, in my opinion, an accident waiting to happen, hopefully the third 'red mark' happens before the undertakers are called out. [This sounds dramatic but is exactly what happened to a 17yr old friend of a friend a few weeks ago - nothing as sobering as a teenagers funeral]
He has the black box now.
I can view online how he's getting on if I like, I don't but it's there.
A friend of his has had 2 'red marks' apparently, another and he'll be cancelled and pretty much uninsurable I'd think - he drives like a berk though and is, in my opinion, an accident waiting to happen, hopefully the third 'red mark' happens before the undertakers are called out. [This sounds dramatic but is exactly what happened to a 17yr old friend of a friend a few weeks ago - nothing as sobering as a teenagers funeral]
TooMany2cvs said:
speedyguy said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Because it isn't free to supply/install/monitor, and because experienced drivers have a track record to demonstrate risk.
It will come whatever and the end user will pay for it, Think smart meters.98elise said:
speedyguy said:
mikeiow said:
captainaverage said:
Black box = bad idea.
For new drivers, black box = great idea!Of course, i would NEVER want one....but then I'm a dinosaur!!
You will (or should be aware) that as you get older your reflexes slow down making you more accident prone ?
Insurance is statistics based, so if you want to know who is causing the most most accidents then you need to look at who is paying the most.
king obvious, why do so many people have difficulty with grasping this concept? Do people really think that a story in the Daily Mail about some old biddy going the wrong way down the motorway is more relevant that the stats from millions of drivers. The plural of anecdote is not data. speedyguy said:
mikeiow said:
captainaverage said:
Black box = bad idea.
For new drivers, black box = great idea!Of course, i would NEVER want one....but then I'm a dinosaur!!
You will (or should be aware) that as you get older your reflexes slow down making you more accident prone ?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
And many more, that's when I think blackbox is a bad idea. This person had unfair terms applied to them in my opinion but I didn't read the whole story so maybe I am wrong.
Save them from ticking the cancelled insurance box for the rest of their life, educate them about what can go wrong (driving lessons only teach you how to pass) and maybe wait a year or two after getting your licence and then get insured.
As for the 'dinosaurs', is it really that difficult for people to adapt their driving to whose around them? Just wait a bit and overtake them...
Black box = very bad idea, don't do it.
captainaverage said:
When I read BS like this one:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
And many more, that's when I think blackbox is a bad idea. This person had unfair terms applied to them in my opinion but I didn't read the whole story so maybe I am wrong.
Save them from ticking the cancelled insurance box for the rest of their life, educate them about what can go wrong (driving lessons only teach you how to pass) and maybe wait a year or two after getting your licence and then get insured.
As for the 'dinosaurs', is it really that difficult for people to adapt their driving to whose around them? Just wait a bit and overtake them...
Black box = very bad idea, don't do it.
The way insurance companies apply rules may be a bad idea/method, but this doesn't mean the black box itself is a bad idea, at all.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
And many more, that's when I think blackbox is a bad idea. This person had unfair terms applied to them in my opinion but I didn't read the whole story so maybe I am wrong.
Save them from ticking the cancelled insurance box for the rest of their life, educate them about what can go wrong (driving lessons only teach you how to pass) and maybe wait a year or two after getting your licence and then get insured.
As for the 'dinosaurs', is it really that difficult for people to adapt their driving to whose around them? Just wait a bit and overtake them...
Black box = very bad idea, don't do it.
98elise said:
We will have autonomous cars before widespread black boxes. The Government gets nothing from black boxes, and the insurance industry are only interested in the economics of black boxes.
A black box allows careful new drivers to proves themselves without the need to have a track record. They can then get cheaper insurance up front. Cheaper Insurance gives an insurance company a competitive edge.
My insurance is less than £300 a year. How much cheaper can it be? The cost to the insurer and the savings to me make it uneconomical. I would also prefer not to have a black box so will pay the slightly higher premium because the difference is so small.
The only quote that had a mandatory black box with it when I compared the meerkat last week was £5,356 compared to the quote I went with which was £129A black box allows careful new drivers to proves themselves without the need to have a track record. They can then get cheaper insurance up front. Cheaper Insurance gives an insurance company a competitive edge.
My insurance is less than £300 a year. How much cheaper can it be? The cost to the insurer and the savings to me make it uneconomical. I would also prefer not to have a black box so will pay the slightly higher premium because the difference is so small.
So the answer is it won't be
Sa Calobra said:
Does a 17yr old HAVE to drive?
No, but lazy parents encourage it so that they don't have to give lifts anymore.Suddenly you've got new drivers driving blurry-eyed along dark, icy B-roads at 2 in the morning from a party, then five hours later driving along dark icy A-roads to school. Most of theses kids have never driven in the dark, yet alone Winter.
captainaverage said:
When I read BS like this one:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
And many more, that's when I think blackbox is a bad idea. This person had unfair terms applied to them in my opinion but I didn't read the whole story so maybe I am wrong.
You didn't read it, because it wasn't given.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
And many more, that's when I think blackbox is a bad idea. This person had unfair terms applied to them in my opinion but I didn't read the whole story so maybe I am wrong.
I bet if the policyholder had bothered to read the Ts & Cs, they'd have known damn well what they were in for. There's probably a lot of information missing from that thread.
captainaverage said:
Black box = very bad idea, don't do it.
Fine. So just pay the extra premium.IME black box policies arent any cheaper
I dont like the whole idea of them and dont want to give any business to insurers that insist on them
Secondly my son likes to go and see live music meaning he is often on the road past the 11pm curfew that many have
Also I like to drive his car myself from time to time and wouldnt want my behaviour to influence his premuim
Finally there is no benefit at the end of the year , that data isnt stored so any benefits beyond ncb are lost anyhow
However my son is a good and safe driver and a responsible lad so I dont have to worry that he will drive recklessly and he also has a dashcam fitted so I could review his driving at any time and he knows it
I dont like the whole idea of them and dont want to give any business to insurers that insist on them
Secondly my son likes to go and see live music meaning he is often on the road past the 11pm curfew that many have
Also I like to drive his car myself from time to time and wouldnt want my behaviour to influence his premuim
Finally there is no benefit at the end of the year , that data isnt stored so any benefits beyond ncb are lost anyhow
However my son is a good and safe driver and a responsible lad so I dont have to worry that he will drive recklessly and he also has a dashcam fitted so I could review his driving at any time and he knows it
liner33 said:
IME black box policies arent any cheaper
I dont like the whole idea of them and dont want to give any business to insurers that insist on them
Secondly my son likes to go and see live music meaning he is often on the road past the 11pm curfew that many have
Also I like to drive his car myself from time to time and wouldnt want my behaviour to influence his premuim
Finally there is no benefit at the end of the year , that data isnt stored so any benefits beyond ncb are lost anyhow
However my son is a good and safe driver and a responsible lad so I dont have to worry that he will drive recklessly and he also has a dashcam fitted so I could review his driving at any time and he knows it
This is just not liking something because you don't like it; there's no curfew on many BB policies, if you drive normally you won't affect his BB, there's no benefit (apart from NCB) after the first year of any insurance policy - why should there be - and yes, BB policies for a certain demographic are demonstrably cheaper.I dont like the whole idea of them and dont want to give any business to insurers that insist on them
Secondly my son likes to go and see live music meaning he is often on the road past the 11pm curfew that many have
Also I like to drive his car myself from time to time and wouldnt want my behaviour to influence his premuim
Finally there is no benefit at the end of the year , that data isnt stored so any benefits beyond ncb are lost anyhow
However my son is a good and safe driver and a responsible lad so I dont have to worry that he will drive recklessly and he also has a dashcam fitted so I could review his driving at any time and he knows it
You just 'don't like', which is fair enough, but the actual reasons for that may be more psychological than actual...
Black box policies aren't compulsory. They give young drivers a choice. (or whoever is paying the premium). How can that be a bad thing? Surely the consumer having a choice can only be a good thing.
In the industry, it is generally acknowledged that just separating out young drivers into those who are happy to have the box and those who are dead set against it is 90% of the battle. Once you've attracted the youngsters who agree to have the box, you've filtered out the morons, and you may as well fit a dummy box.
In the industry, it is generally acknowledged that just separating out young drivers into those who are happy to have the box and those who are dead set against it is 90% of the battle. Once you've attracted the youngsters who agree to have the box, you've filtered out the morons, and you may as well fit a dummy box.
993kimbo said:
Sa Calobra said:
Does a 17yr old HAVE to drive?
No, but lazy parents encourage it so that they don't have to give lifts anymore.Suddenly you've got new drivers driving blurry-eyed along dark, icy B-roads at 2 in the morning from a party, then five hours later driving along dark icy A-roads to school. Most of theses kids have never driven in the dark, yet alone Winter.
As for parents' laziness, I don't know but it does give us more free time, no question.
As for black boxes, we had one for the first 3 months in the kids' 1.0 Yaris and is has made a difference in the premium so I don't see what's bad about that idea, I actually think they're brilliant.
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