Insurance for a 17yr old with out black box. Is it possible?
Discussion
red rider said:
Brilliant idea it should become compulsory for the first couple of years for new drivers of any age. It not only brings the cost of the insurance down by quite a substantial amount it is also an incentive to keep the drivers within the speed limits. There are different boxes, my sons is purely based on speed so no penalties for night curfews, hard breaking, fast cornering or going over speed bumps to fast.
If black boxes become compulsory, do you think the premiums will increase or decrease? Once all new drivers are baselined, would the insurance companies assess them as less of a risk as a whole?selym said:
red rider said:
Brilliant idea it should become compulsory for the first couple of years for new drivers of any age. It not only brings the cost of the insurance down by quite a substantial amount it is also an incentive to keep the drivers within the speed limits. There are different boxes, my sons is purely based on speed so no penalties for night curfews, hard breaking, fast cornering or going over speed bumps to fast.
If black boxes become compulsory, do you think the premiums will increase or decrease? Once all new drivers are baselined, would the insurance companies assess them as less of a risk as a whole?
eezeh said:
As soon as black boxes become compulsory for everyone we will soon discover that actually premiums haven't changed at all and we've all been porked by the insurance companies.
Except motor insurance is extremely competitive and doesn't yield much net profit beyond the financial ROI on premiums collected.I have seen some combined ratios and it's not particularly pretty.
Edited by nickfrog on Monday 25th December 17:17
993kimbo said:
Sa Calobra said:
Does a 17yr old HAVE to drive?
No, but lazy parents encourage it so that they don't have to give lifts anymore.Suddenly you've got new drivers driving blurry-eyed along dark, icy B-roads at 2 in the morning from a party, then five hours later driving along dark icy A-roads to school. Most of theses kids have never driven in the dark, yet alone Winter.
eezeh said:
selym said:
red rider said:
Brilliant idea it should become compulsory for the first couple of years for new drivers of any age. It not only brings the cost of the insurance down by quite a substantial amount it is also an incentive to keep the drivers within the speed limits. There are different boxes, my sons is purely based on speed so no penalties for night curfews, hard breaking, fast cornering or going over speed bumps to fast.
If black boxes become compulsory, do you think the premiums will increase or decrease? Once all new drivers are baselined, would the insurance companies assess them as less of a risk as a whole?Wacky Racer said:
I think people have to bear in mind, even if it's an old banger for £200, and they want £3000 to insure it, the big risk to an insurance company is to personal injury claims, the old car is neither here and there.
If your inexperienced 17yr old hits a pedestrian, and they have to have very serious surgery it could cost their insurance over £100,000 or more.
An older vehicle probably has poorer occupant and pedestrian safety features too, so could cause a greater degree of harm.If your inexperienced 17yr old hits a pedestrian, and they have to have very serious surgery it could cost their insurance over £100,000 or more.
My son gets warnings on his app when he does 33 in a 30, which I think is taking it to the extreme. He has had a good quarterly discount on his insurance though, having got a good 'score'.
I think the box is proving more beneficial now, ten months after passing his test, as his confidence is probably exceeding his ability and the box endures he doesn't do anything silly .
I think the box is proving more beneficial now, ten months after passing his test, as his confidence is probably exceeding his ability and the box endures he doesn't do anything silly .
I would never accept a black box when insuring my sons (who as yet are not driving). I think they're a thoroughly bad idea - you get penalised for braking sharply, for any sudden large steering inputs, or even for accelerating rapidly. All of these are frequently necessary for safe progress on the road.
RoverP6B said:
I would never accept a black box when insuring my sons (who as yet are not driving). I think they're a thoroughly bad idea - you get penalised for braking sharply, for any sudden large steering inputs, or even for accelerating rapidly. All of these are frequently necessary for safe progress on the road.
I wish you luck finding a quote without one that's worth paying anymore. They're awful to live with, but it's that or nothing. RoverP6B said:
I would never accept a black box when insuring my sons (who as yet are not driving). I think they're a thoroughly bad idea - you get penalised for braking sharply, for any sudden large steering inputs, or even for accelerating rapidly. All of these are frequently necessary for safe progress on the road.
I always enjoyed tripping the "harsh acceleration" filter in my 1.0 ecobox! But yes, they can be an issue. At the same time, it does encourage anticipation. My (Admiral) one actually didn't really care about speed too much. I got a silver (B/S/G rating) on a journey where I hit 100 leptons! [Due to an initmidating and dangerous driver]Anticipation is all well and good, but it cannot account for the idiot driver who will blithely leap out from a side-road at the last minute then crawl at half the speed limit, leaving you hammering the brakes to avoid a collision, or, if there's room and it's the safer option, hammering the throttle... if there's a need to overtake, it's better to get it over and done with as quickly as possible (which is why I tend to prefer my 540i to my 520i - less refinement but so much more in-gear acceleration).
One of my most frequent overtaking spots, on the A246 on the Effingham side of East Horsley, is prone to all of these - 50mph limit, a dip between two steep inclines, with a nearly-blind side turning just up the incline to the west of the dip (traffic coming out of this rarely observes the Give Way sign and double white lines, preferring to leap out opportunistically), a wide hatched area and filter lane for eastbound traffic turning south into the side-road in the middle (bound by broken white lines on both sides), and, in the westbound direction, a 90-degree right-hand bend 500 yards uphill from that side turning. This means, if you're driving at the speed limit, you've got to be prepared for anything - slam on all the anchors, or if that filter lane is empty, call on all the horses, overtake as quickly as possible, then hard on the brakes for the bend (which itself has a turning on the outside)... the majority of drivers, whether also heading westbound on the main road or leaping out of the side road, drive small Japanese hatchbacks at no more than 35mph in the 50mph limit, with 20-25 being more common. It's also not unknown for eastbound traffic to lunge suddenly across the westbound traffic into that side road, without signalling or moving into the filter lane. The only solution then is application of full brake pressure, unless you're right on them when they move, in which case rapid acceleration and/or a swerve around the rear of their car may be called upon... I've had to do all of these at various times to stop these idiots killing me when I've been driving to the limit and appropriately for conditions.
I've also had to either hammer the brakes or apply full throttle to avoid being mown down by lorries failing to observe the Give Way lines on the A24 Beaverbrook roundabout, close to where I live, as I either emerge from or head for the side-road... both north- and south-bound traffic tends to ignore the existence of the side-roads completely, with the result that only a full emergency stop or calling on every one of the finest Bavarian horses available to me has saved my life.
Insurers penalising youngsters for life-saving driving techniques? f
k that, and fk them. I have nothing but the lowest contempt for car insurers, especially those peddling the great lie that is the 'black box'.
Yet again, the REAL solution, which no politician has the balls to do, would be to teach people to drive competently, in full control of their vehicles, and to introduce mandatory retesting to take the elderly and incompetent off the road... 40 years on from my first official driving lessons (I'd already been driving on airfields, farmland etc, everything from Minis to Land Rovers and wee grey Fergies), in my mind's ear I still hear my bloody-minded Dundonian driving instructor, lecturing me to get going up to the speed limit quickly, to fit into the traffic flow, and to ALWAYS "Check guid! Check guid!". He also insisted on me taking the car I'd be driving (in those days, a suspiciously quick ex-demo Mk2 Humber Sceptre, made about 125bhp rather than the stock 85bhp!) onto a rain-sodden airfield nearby to practice real car control beyond the limits of grip and traction. These days, however, people seem not to look, not to get up to speed quickly if at all, they're too bloody distracted by their satnav or infotainment, too timid and frightened to drive to the limit, and brake continually on every slight bend, all because the anti-speed lobby and the insurers have fed them this guff that driving slower is safer... and they wouldn't even know which wheels on their car were driven, less still how (according to that fact) to handle the car in an under/oversteer situation. The number of stupid accidents that have occurred round these parts because the back end has stepped out in the wet, traction control hasn't caught it and the fools have never even heard of using a 'dab of oppo' and throttle to balance the car and straighten it out... and there are far, FAR too many 80+year olds out there in Honda Jazzes who clearly can't see, are hunched over their steering wheels, peering through bottle-bottom glasses... but do the insurers foist black boxes on them?! No, because a black box couldn't tell that they're not competent to be behind the wheel!
Rant over, for now...
One of my most frequent overtaking spots, on the A246 on the Effingham side of East Horsley, is prone to all of these - 50mph limit, a dip between two steep inclines, with a nearly-blind side turning just up the incline to the west of the dip (traffic coming out of this rarely observes the Give Way sign and double white lines, preferring to leap out opportunistically), a wide hatched area and filter lane for eastbound traffic turning south into the side-road in the middle (bound by broken white lines on both sides), and, in the westbound direction, a 90-degree right-hand bend 500 yards uphill from that side turning. This means, if you're driving at the speed limit, you've got to be prepared for anything - slam on all the anchors, or if that filter lane is empty, call on all the horses, overtake as quickly as possible, then hard on the brakes for the bend (which itself has a turning on the outside)... the majority of drivers, whether also heading westbound on the main road or leaping out of the side road, drive small Japanese hatchbacks at no more than 35mph in the 50mph limit, with 20-25 being more common. It's also not unknown for eastbound traffic to lunge suddenly across the westbound traffic into that side road, without signalling or moving into the filter lane. The only solution then is application of full brake pressure, unless you're right on them when they move, in which case rapid acceleration and/or a swerve around the rear of their car may be called upon... I've had to do all of these at various times to stop these idiots killing me when I've been driving to the limit and appropriately for conditions.
I've also had to either hammer the brakes or apply full throttle to avoid being mown down by lorries failing to observe the Give Way lines on the A24 Beaverbrook roundabout, close to where I live, as I either emerge from or head for the side-road... both north- and south-bound traffic tends to ignore the existence of the side-roads completely, with the result that only a full emergency stop or calling on every one of the finest Bavarian horses available to me has saved my life.
Insurers penalising youngsters for life-saving driving techniques? f
k that, and fk them. I have nothing but the lowest contempt for car insurers, especially those peddling the great lie that is the 'black box'.Yet again, the REAL solution, which no politician has the balls to do, would be to teach people to drive competently, in full control of their vehicles, and to introduce mandatory retesting to take the elderly and incompetent off the road... 40 years on from my first official driving lessons (I'd already been driving on airfields, farmland etc, everything from Minis to Land Rovers and wee grey Fergies), in my mind's ear I still hear my bloody-minded Dundonian driving instructor, lecturing me to get going up to the speed limit quickly, to fit into the traffic flow, and to ALWAYS "Check guid! Check guid!". He also insisted on me taking the car I'd be driving (in those days, a suspiciously quick ex-demo Mk2 Humber Sceptre, made about 125bhp rather than the stock 85bhp!) onto a rain-sodden airfield nearby to practice real car control beyond the limits of grip and traction. These days, however, people seem not to look, not to get up to speed quickly if at all, they're too bloody distracted by their satnav or infotainment, too timid and frightened to drive to the limit, and brake continually on every slight bend, all because the anti-speed lobby and the insurers have fed them this guff that driving slower is safer... and they wouldn't even know which wheels on their car were driven, less still how (according to that fact) to handle the car in an under/oversteer situation. The number of stupid accidents that have occurred round these parts because the back end has stepped out in the wet, traction control hasn't caught it and the fools have never even heard of using a 'dab of oppo' and throttle to balance the car and straighten it out... and there are far, FAR too many 80+year olds out there in Honda Jazzes who clearly can't see, are hunched over their steering wheels, peering through bottle-bottom glasses... but do the insurers foist black boxes on them?! No, because a black box couldn't tell that they're not competent to be behind the wheel!
Rant over, for now...
RoverP6B said:
Anticipation is all well and good, but it cannot account for the idiot driver who will blithely leap out from a side-road at the last minute then crawl at half the speed limit, leaving you hammering the brakes to avoid a collision, or, if there's room and it's the safer option, hammering the throttle...
Mmmm. What was that about antici....pation?
aaron_2000 said:
I wish you luck finding a quote without one that's worth paying anymore. They're awful to live with, but it's that or nothing.
My sons insurance was £30 cheaper WITHOUT a black box One of his school friends wrote off his car shortly after passing by hitting a low stone wall and had a back box forced on him by his insurers, he now drives everywhere at the speed limit but no faster, yesterday he had a head on swerving on the other side of the road to avoid stationary traffic, driving too fast for the conditions and not being able to stop in the distance he could see, but he wasnt speeding. His and the car he hit were written off , luckily only minor injuries but glad I dont have to pay his premiums
apexing bends;) especially on a Friday pub calling 
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