RE: McLaren Senna on the road!
Discussion
Maldini35 said:
Quickmoose said:
I'm not a hater.
I'm not sure why you thought the result would be an angry exchange?
It can only explain lack of facts...
As for people senidng in CVs to McLaren? really?
The endless search for grip and all this downforce on a road car is proper stand up material.
If you want to track a car with real downforce you go single seater.
You can't got that fast enough legally off track to warrant all these special kilos
And has been pointed out very VERY few track a million pound car.
This is why lesser downforcy cars that do ok on track (and JUST as fast in the hands of anyone not a pro) and are street legal are admired more if they have a designer involved and not just an aero nerd.
It's an excercise in one up manship and engineering prowess which garners admiaration from everyone interested in such stuff...including me...it wins HUGE in Top Trumps....
Won't make many bedroom walls I'd wager...
And there's no real excuse for that IMO.
Honest question, does it have more downforce than a 956?
and
Has McLaren set any lap times in it yet?
From your post you imply the concept of hyper cars and pushing boundaries is pointless (except for Top Trumps)I'm not sure why you thought the result would be an angry exchange?
It can only explain lack of facts...
As for people senidng in CVs to McLaren? really?
The endless search for grip and all this downforce on a road car is proper stand up material.
If you want to track a car with real downforce you go single seater.
You can't got that fast enough legally off track to warrant all these special kilos
And has been pointed out very VERY few track a million pound car.
This is why lesser downforcy cars that do ok on track (and JUST as fast in the hands of anyone not a pro) and are street legal are admired more if they have a designer involved and not just an aero nerd.
It's an excercise in one up manship and engineering prowess which garners admiaration from everyone interested in such stuff...including me...it wins HUGE in Top Trumps....
Won't make many bedroom walls I'd wager...
And there's no real excuse for that IMO.
Honest question, does it have more downforce than a 956?
and
Has McLaren set any lap times in it yet?
Fair enough.
Just wish you’d stop banging on about it.
The LaF pushed the boundaries when it was launched and by your logic is entirely pointless (as a Formula Ford could probably lap Brands Indy faster) yet now you laud it. Hardly a consistent argument.
No idea what downforce a 956 made but it wasn’t road legal (excluding the Dauer conversion) so utterly irrelevant. I believe it also incorporated side skirts etc. to increase the ground effect - which are now illegal on the track and totally impractical for road use.
One more thing - have you stopped to think why McLaren have specifically made 500 road cars?
Why would they need to do that?
Could they have further plans for this car?
Who knows?
It could explain why it looks the way it does though.
The bottom line is you don’t like the way the Senna looks. Ok we get it.
As for making it onto bedroom walls - I’d wager you’re too old to know that.
Edited by Maldini35 on Monday 26th February 12:34
Edited by Maldini35 on Monday 26th February 12:35
Maldini35 said:
From your post you imply the concept of hyper cars and pushing boundaries is pointless (except for Top Trumps)
Fair enough.
Just wish you’d stop banging on about it.
What a massive assumption.... couldn't be more wrong.Fair enough.
Just wish you’d stop banging on about it.
Maldini35 said:
The LaF pushed the boundaries when it was launched and by your logic is entirely pointless (as a Formula Ford could probably lap Brands Indy faster) yet now you laud it. Hardly a consistent argument.
[Not quite, because 1. It's attractive and 2. it was never marketed as a brutal exercise in track biased driving...
Maldini35 said:
No idea what downforce a 956 made but it wasn’t road legal (excluding the Dauer conversion) so utterly irrelevant. I believe it also incorporated side skirts etc. to increase the ground effect - which are now illegal on the track and totally impractical for road use.
Ok... valid... but I wonder what the Dauer conversions' downforce was like...Maldini35 said:
One more thing - have you stopped to think why McLaren have specifically made 500 road cars?
Why would they need to do that?
Could they have further plans for this car?
Who knows?
It could explain why it looks the way it does though.
but again it doesn't... there are many race cars that look better than this.Why would they need to do that?
Could they have further plans for this car?
Who knows?
It could explain why it looks the way it does though.
Mercedes and Aston have one each that will also be road legal...
Also there are rules for racing.... another honest question, in the LeMans classes does a Ford GT have more downforce then the Aston/Ferrari/Porsche?
If McLarens aim was to make a car that had massive ground force...why make it road legal where both the road bit and the track bit get compromised?
The road bit doesn't give you free reign for aero, and the track bit doesn't work so well with road car legislation.
And as I've pointed out McLaren already have a history of cars that push boundaries.... that also had a 'designer' involved. There is no point any other designer putting forth their CV if they're not going to use one...
Maldini35 said:
As for making it onto bedroom walls - I’d wager you’re too old to know that.
irrelevant 
plus no lap times...
I'm not simply banging on about the looks here though am I.
Sure it's gopping we've got past that very obvious and simple point.
The deeper bit is 'why'.... If you want to chase pure performance then the FXX programme does that FAR better... why hobble the whole deal by saying it's road legal too?
Homologation only goes so far....
Porsche/Ferrari/Ford/Aston/Corvette all race very well without having to mess up their road car versions...and Mclaren have proved they can do that too...
I can't find any joy in the car...and more than that, over and above the fact its fast and has paid for itself and got a fair few column inches, its tad embarrassing. A blot.
And of course there's naming a road car after a racing driver.... I don't think Ayrton would've given two hoots about this, because he'd be breaking the law if he let it of the leash on public roads...and if he went on track he'd have access to far better bits of kit.
I'm ok if you don't want to read or reply by the way, nobody has to
Streetrod said:
McLaren have already made it clear that they want to take the Senna racing hoping to revisit the glories of the past with the F1. This has partly dictated the way the car looks. Will anyone car about the looks if they manage a class or outright win at LeMans, I think not
Where have they said that?Even if they do intend to go racing with it, the way the GT regs are these days they'll just get hammered on Balance of Performance. If they've genuinely made something with huge downforce then they'll just end up having to detune the engine to about 400bhp to compensate under BoP, just as the Ford GT racer has much less power than the road car.
thegreenhell said:
Streetrod said:
McLaren have already made it clear that they want to take the Senna racing hoping to revisit the glories of the past with the F1. This has partly dictated the way the car looks. Will anyone car about the looks if they manage a class or outright win at LeMans, I think not
Where have they said that?Even if they do intend to go racing with it, the way the GT regs are these days they'll just get hammered on Balance of Performance. If they've genuinely made something with huge downforce then they'll just end up having to detune the engine to about 400bhp to compensate under BoP, just as the Ford GT racer has much less power than the road car.
I appreciate its function over form which is to be applauded.
The bizarre thing, it's actually not a bad looking thing if the spoiler didn't look like an afterthought and whacked together using scaffolding poles, G clamps and lots of MDF offcuts.
I'm sure there must have been a way to cohesively incorporate it the main design ethos and still perform.
The bizarre thing, it's actually not a bad looking thing if the spoiler didn't look like an afterthought and whacked together using scaffolding poles, G clamps and lots of MDF offcuts.
I'm sure there must have been a way to cohesively incorporate it the main design ethos and still perform.
thegreenhell said:
Streetrod said:
McLaren have already made it clear that they want to take the Senna racing hoping to revisit the glories of the past with the F1. This has partly dictated the way the car looks. Will anyone car about the looks if they manage a class or outright win at LeMans, I think not
Where have they said that?Even if they do intend to go racing with it, the way the GT regs are these days they'll just get hammered on Balance of Performance. If they've genuinely made something with huge downforce then they'll just end up having to detune the engine to about 400bhp to compensate under BoP, just as the Ford GT racer has much less power than the road car.
And if LMP1 rules are modified later to allow for more convergence of road cars to compete (big if at the moment I think), a custom designed car for the class by someone else is going to start with a huge advantage as it'd be expressly designed around those rules as to what is possible.
Quickmoose said:
...
Honest question, does it have more downforce than a 956?
...
Don't know the 155mph numbers but the 962 reportedly had a scarcely believable top speed downforce of 2500kg... the Dauer supposedly had 40% of the race cars max downforce due to its ride height and much lowered cD but still 1000kg and 251mph!Honest question, does it have more downforce than a 956?
...
Leroy902 said:
I KEEP reading 'La Ferrari' and 'ugly' in the same sentence.
I've never read such a thing in the past on any PH threads.
Ones that may have must've been mclaren employees!?.
Not just me then!I've never read such a thing in the past on any PH threads.
Ones that may have must've been mclaren employees!?.
Maldini35 said:
fblm said:
Maldini35 said:
... I know a lot of customers who love the look of the car and plenty more who desperately want one...
Do you work for McLaren?But you certainly shouldn’t presume it’s beyond the realms of possibility.
A lot of people in the industry post on here.
In response to Quickmoose.
plus no lap times...
- give them a chance - the car is still in development
I'm not simply banging on about the looks here though am I?
- You kind of are though
The deeper bit is 'why'.... If you want to chase pure performance then the FXX programme does that FAR better...
- Really?
How better? No lap times for the Senna announced yet.
Senna has the potential to be faster, half the price and road legal. FXX still ‘better’?
And why hobble the whole deal by saying it's road legal too?
- Not hobbled if it’s faster.
Homologation only goes so far....
Porsche/Ferrari/Ford/Aston/Corvette all race very well without having to mess up their road car versions...
- BOP enables them to do that.
The road versions are completely different cars. V8 Vantage road car isn’t much of a track car is it. You’re not understanding the appeal of a very fast track car which is road legal. That is what 500 wealthy customers wanted - despite you not getting it.
Imagine a car as fast as an FXX that you could drive more than 4 times a year, every day in fact. Whenever and wherever you wanted.
I can't find any joy in the car...
- You’ve not driven it...
and more than that, over and above the fact its fast and has paid for itself and got a fair few column inches, its tad embarrassing.
- in your eyes maybe but not to many - certainly the 500 customers who bought one.
And of course there's naming a road car after a racing driver.... I don't think Ayrton would've given two hoots about this, because he'd be breaking the law if he let it of the leash on public roads...and if he went on track he'd have access to far better bits of kit.
- You’ve not spoken with Ayrton’s family. They knew him a bit better than you and have been full of praise for the car. They even said Ayrton would have loved it. But then again if you ‘think’ he wouldn’t like it perhaps you should give them a call and put them right.
Subjective I know but I prefer it to the awfully named LaFerrari. Now that really should annoy you.
I'm ok if you don't want to read or reply by the way, nobody has to
- I get that the car is polarising. I like it that cars like this divide opinion. Nothing wrong with that.
But your subjective opinion, based on very limited information is just that - opinion.
Maybe you don’t like oysters? Fine. But don’t question the competence or sanity of people that do or the restaurants that serve them. You are no more right than them.
(Actually forget the oysters analogy - they are the food of the devil and not fit for human consumption )
plus no lap times...
- give them a chance - the car is still in development
I'm not simply banging on about the looks here though am I?
- You kind of are though
The deeper bit is 'why'.... If you want to chase pure performance then the FXX programme does that FAR better...
- Really?
How better? No lap times for the Senna announced yet.
Senna has the potential to be faster, half the price and road legal. FXX still ‘better’?
And why hobble the whole deal by saying it's road legal too?
- Not hobbled if it’s faster.
Homologation only goes so far....
Porsche/Ferrari/Ford/Aston/Corvette all race very well without having to mess up their road car versions...
- BOP enables them to do that.
The road versions are completely different cars. V8 Vantage road car isn’t much of a track car is it. You’re not understanding the appeal of a very fast track car which is road legal. That is what 500 wealthy customers wanted - despite you not getting it.
Imagine a car as fast as an FXX that you could drive more than 4 times a year, every day in fact. Whenever and wherever you wanted.
I can't find any joy in the car...
- You’ve not driven it...
and more than that, over and above the fact its fast and has paid for itself and got a fair few column inches, its tad embarrassing.
- in your eyes maybe but not to many - certainly the 500 customers who bought one.
And of course there's naming a road car after a racing driver.... I don't think Ayrton would've given two hoots about this, because he'd be breaking the law if he let it of the leash on public roads...and if he went on track he'd have access to far better bits of kit.
- You’ve not spoken with Ayrton’s family. They knew him a bit better than you and have been full of praise for the car. They even said Ayrton would have loved it. But then again if you ‘think’ he wouldn’t like it perhaps you should give them a call and put them right.
Subjective I know but I prefer it to the awfully named LaFerrari. Now that really should annoy you.
I'm ok if you don't want to read or reply by the way, nobody has to
- I get that the car is polarising. I like it that cars like this divide opinion. Nothing wrong with that.
But your subjective opinion, based on very limited information is just that - opinion.
Maybe you don’t like oysters? Fine. But don’t question the competence or sanity of people that do or the restaurants that serve them. You are no more right than them.
(Actually forget the oysters analogy - they are the food of the devil and not fit for human consumption
)Edited by Maldini35 on Monday 26th February 14:37
Can't decide if I like it or not. Looks a bit "Too Fast, Too Furious" but I have a soft spot for cars like with big wings. Then again I am a broke ass hoe so I am not their target audience so what do they care 
Wonder if it would divide opinion so much if it wore a Lamborghini badge with there flair for producing some outrageous cars?
Wonder if it would divide opinion so much if it wore a Lamborghini badge with there flair for producing some outrageous cars?
I am in no way serving up my opinion as fact....
You seriously think a road legal car will be faster than one that is made for the track only? really?
Senna's family receiving funds from Senna's manufacturer for the charity and praising the car shock.
I put forward my opinion of what Senna might think as others have suggested he'd love it because of it's focus... that's as much hoghwash as my version is.
The La Ferrari's name is ridiculous in the extreme and I said as much when it was released.
YouTube influencers have sat in it, I'm pretty sure McLaren have found time to put it round a track or nine...
My opinion is subjective, of course but it's mine so why try and convince me it's wrong?
Spend a time thinking about the why.... why compromise a car so much and then try and big it up inspite of that.
That's the discussion afaic....
It looks minging
It has amazing aero
That you can't use on the road and would be greater still if you recognised the fact the collectors buying this thing can afford to take it to a track without having to put up negotiating speed bumps and having to change tyres etc etc.
500 people... oooh...so many....
You know plenty of brands release limited numbers of certain products and they all sell out....the 'why' for that is not rocket science...
You seriously think a road legal car will be faster than one that is made for the track only? really?
Senna's family receiving funds from Senna's manufacturer for the charity and praising the car shock.
I put forward my opinion of what Senna might think as others have suggested he'd love it because of it's focus... that's as much hoghwash as my version is.
The La Ferrari's name is ridiculous in the extreme and I said as much when it was released.
YouTube influencers have sat in it, I'm pretty sure McLaren have found time to put it round a track or nine...
My opinion is subjective, of course but it's mine so why try and convince me it's wrong?
Spend a time thinking about the why.... why compromise a car so much and then try and big it up inspite of that.
That's the discussion afaic....
It looks minging
It has amazing aero
That you can't use on the road and would be greater still if you recognised the fact the collectors buying this thing can afford to take it to a track without having to put up negotiating speed bumps and having to change tyres etc etc.
500 people... oooh...so many....
You know plenty of brands release limited numbers of certain products and they all sell out....the 'why' for that is not rocket science...
fblm said:
Leroy902 said:
I KEEP reading 'La Ferrari' and 'ugly' in the same sentence.
I've never read such a thing in the past on any PH threads.
.
I've never read such a thing in the past on any PH threads.
.
It’s obviously a fantastic car.
But personally I don’t find it very pretty.
The front end with the long front overhang in particular doesn’t quite work for me. Especially in profile.
Of the ‘holy trinity’ I preferred the look of both the 918 and P1 over the LaF.
I generally like Ferrari’s though (308 and 355 in particular
) but the current crop look a bit heavy/ bulky in my eyes - Pista aside which looks great. Quickmoose said:
I am in no way serving up my opinion as fact....
You seriously think a road legal car will be faster than one that is made for the track only? really?
Senna's family receiving funds from Senna's manufacturer for the charity and praising the car shock.
I put forward my opinion of what Senna might think as others have suggested he'd love it because of it's focus... that's as much hoghwash as my version is.
The La Ferrari's name is ridiculous in the extreme and I said as much when it was released.
YouTube influencers have sat in it, I'm pretty sure McLaren have found time to put it round a track or nine...
My opinion is subjective, of course but it's mine so why try and convince me it's wrong?
Spend a time thinking about the why.... why compromise a car so much and then try and big it up inspite of that.
That's the discussion afaic....
It looks minging
It has amazing aero
That you can't use on the road and would be greater still if you recognised the fact the collectors buying this thing can afford to take it to a track without having to put up negotiating speed bumps and having to change tyres etc etc.
500 people... oooh...so many....
You know plenty of brands release limited numbers of certain products and they all sell out....the 'why' for that is not rocket science...
Sigh - that’s why I was reluctant to get into a discussion with you. You seriously think a road legal car will be faster than one that is made for the track only? really?
Senna's family receiving funds from Senna's manufacturer for the charity and praising the car shock.
I put forward my opinion of what Senna might think as others have suggested he'd love it because of it's focus... that's as much hoghwash as my version is.
The La Ferrari's name is ridiculous in the extreme and I said as much when it was released.
YouTube influencers have sat in it, I'm pretty sure McLaren have found time to put it round a track or nine...
My opinion is subjective, of course but it's mine so why try and convince me it's wrong?
Spend a time thinking about the why.... why compromise a car so much and then try and big it up inspite of that.
That's the discussion afaic....
It looks minging
It has amazing aero
That you can't use on the road and would be greater still if you recognised the fact the collectors buying this thing can afford to take it to a track without having to put up negotiating speed bumps and having to change tyres etc etc.
500 people... oooh...so many....
You know plenty of brands release limited numbers of certain products and they all sell out....the 'why' for that is not rocket science...
Not trying to convince you to change your mind, just trying to open your eyes to the fact that others might disagree.
Happy posting
E65Ross said:
It is entirely feasible a road legal car be faster than a track only car. Not all track only cars are insanely fast, plus technology moves on quickly. Some of these insanely fast road cars are as quick as the Zonda R for example.
In that respect Top Gear was an eye-opener last night...E65Ross said:
It is entirely feasible a road legal car be faster than a track only car. Not all track only cars are insanely fast, plus technology moves on quickly. Some of these insanely fast road cars are as quick as the Zonda R for example.
The point being, if McLaren made a track only car with the main aim on being the quickest lap time...they'd better this.Maldini35 said:
Sigh - that’s why I was reluctant to get into a discussion with you.
Not trying to convince you to change your mind, just trying to open your eyes to the fact that others might disagree.
Happy posting
I'm well aware others disagree Not trying to convince you to change your mind, just trying to open your eyes to the fact that others might disagree.
Happy posting
be a fairly bland discussion based forum if we all said the same thing?!
I like it
I love it
so do
me too!
its so fast
yes
Isn't it wonderful
yes
Edited by Quickmoose on Monday 26th February 15:16
Never you mind said:
Can't decide if I like it or not. Looks a bit "Too Fast, Too Furious" but I have a soft spot for cars like with big wings. Then again I am a broke ass hoe so I am not their target audience so what do they care
Wonder if it would divide opinion so much if it wore a Lamborghini badge with there flair for producing some outrageous cars?
Yes it would I think, as Lambo is about Italian styling, and that is Japanese mod scene inspired.Wonder if it would divide opinion so much if it wore a Lamborghini badge with there flair for producing some outrageous cars?
Current McLaren range in general though seems to look much better in person than in photo's.
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