RE: McLaren Senna on the road!
Discussion
Quickmoose said:
E65Ross said:
It is entirely feasible a road legal car be faster than a track only car. Not all track only cars are insanely fast, plus technology moves on quickly. Some of these insanely fast road cars are as quick as the Zonda R for example.
The point being, if McLaren made a track only car with the main aim on being the quickest lap time...they'd better this.I guess the P1 is pointless too.
E65Ross said:
Quickmoose said:
E65Ross said:
It is entirely feasible a road legal car be faster than a track only car. Not all track only cars are insanely fast, plus technology moves on quickly. Some of these insanely fast road cars are as quick as the Zonda R for example.
The point being, if McLaren made a track only car with the main aim on being the quickest lap time...they'd better this.I guess the P1 is pointless too.
the P1 is FAR from pointless, it proved boundaries could be pushed, AND a designer could have a say so that it wasn't just brutal and stat driven.
the P1 GTR showed that it could be tinkered with and that a track only car for the same aim is and always will be better than a compromised dual role machine.
So the Senna starts from where the P1 did, but with increased knowledge...but this time despite knowing its a dual role machine they end up with something butt ugly, yet manage to use the justification as "well its a no compromise brutal thing isn't ...."......no the GTR version will be no compromise....
E65Ross said:
Judging from your last post, your only gripe seems to be its looks? The P1 is not pointless because it pushes boundaries AND looks OK. This is pointless because, despite pushing boundaries, it doesn't look satisfactory.
OK that's fine. It's pointless in your opinion.
Judging from your posts you'll swallow any old tripe to defend and protect things you like from meanies like me OK that's fine. It's pointless in your opinion.
... no? not fair? ok I'll not put words in your mouth....and you can stop putting words in mine deal? 
Looks were my initial gripe
I then added the name
I then added the company line trying to justify the looks
I recognised from the outset that it pushes boundaries and will likely be a very fast car.
So it clearly pushes boundaries, and to that end isn't pointless....hooray fast car is fast!! (well yet to be proven....)
McLaren's justification for it is laughable however...and they let down their own history.
and again the Mercedes and Aston prove the point....(imo)
Quickmoose said:
E65Ross said:
Quickmoose said:
E65Ross said:
It is entirely feasible a road legal car be faster than a track only car. Not all track only cars are insanely fast, plus technology moves on quickly. Some of these insanely fast road cars are as quick as the Zonda R for example.
The point being, if McLaren made a track only car with the main aim on being the quickest lap time...they'd better this.I guess the P1 is pointless too.
the P1 is FAR from pointless, it proved boundaries could be pushed, AND a designer could have a say so that it wasn't just brutal and stat driven.
the P1 GTR showed that it could be tinkered with and that a track only car for the same aim is and always will be better than a compromised dual role machine.
So the Senna starts from where the P1 did, but with increased knowledge...but this time despite knowing its a dual role machine they end up with something butt ugly, yet manage to use the justification as "well its a no compromise brutal thing isn't ...."......no the GTR version will be no compromise....
Yes it may well be bettered in terms of lap time by a track only version in the future, but that won’t be road legal.
Some people want 99% of the speed and drama of a track beast in a car they can drive on the road, to the circuit perhaps?
Not everybody (even the super wealthy) want the hassle of running and owning an old race car or track-only special which needs trailering everywhere.
You obviously don’t like this idea. But that’s what we’re taking about.
This seems to be the crux of your objection.
You also don’t know how fast the Senna will be. Fair enough - nor does anybody else. But why not wait and see before dismissing it?
Making a track only special is relatively easy. Making something that works very, very well on track, is faster than most race cars and that also passes road legislation - that is trickier.
There is also the possibility of homologation.
Think CSL batmobile, RS Cossie etc. with their ridiculous rear wings. Presumably you don’t see the point of these either?
In short, it appears you don’t the way it looks and the fact it might be marginally slower around a lap due to being road legal.
Is that it?
If so, we’ll accept it’s just not for you.
Que sera sera
Quickmoose said:
E65Ross said:
So, as above, just looks that you don't like.
Oh, and the name. Obviously, the name makes it pointless
issues reading much? Oh, and the name. Obviously, the name makes it pointless
500 people with the wedge to feel it's worthwhile, for whatever, and have ordered one. That's really all that matters. If I had the money I'd love to have one. Quick thinks it's awful and wouldn't. That's it. It doesn't matter what he, you or I say.
Maldini35 said:
Brutal, track-focussed, ROAD LEGAL car.
Yes it may well be bettered in terms of lap time by a track only version in the future, but that won’t be road legal.
Some people want 99% of the speed and drama of a track beast in a car they can drive on the road, to the circuit perhaps?
Not everybody (even the super wealthy) want the hassle of running and owning an old race car or track-only special which needs trailering everywhere.
You obviously don’t like this idea. But that’s what we’re taking about.
This seems to be the crux of your objection.
You also don’t know how fast the Senna will be. Fair enough - nor does anybody else. But why not wait and see before dismissing it?
Making a track only special is relatively easy. Making something that works very, very well on track, is faster than most race cars and that also passes road legislation - that is trickier.
There is also the possibility of homologation.
Think CSL batmobile, RS Cossie etc. with their ridiculous rear wings. Presumably you don’t see the point of these either?
In short, it appears you don’t the way it looks and the fact it might be marginally slower around a lap due to being road legal.
Is that it?
If so, we’ll accept it’s just not for you.
Que sera sera
repeating yourself doesn't change anything though....Yes it may well be bettered in terms of lap time by a track only version in the future, but that won’t be road legal.
Some people want 99% of the speed and drama of a track beast in a car they can drive on the road, to the circuit perhaps?
Not everybody (even the super wealthy) want the hassle of running and owning an old race car or track-only special which needs trailering everywhere.
You obviously don’t like this idea. But that’s what we’re taking about.
This seems to be the crux of your objection.
You also don’t know how fast the Senna will be. Fair enough - nor does anybody else. But why not wait and see before dismissing it?
Making a track only special is relatively easy. Making something that works very, very well on track, is faster than most race cars and that also passes road legislation - that is trickier.
There is also the possibility of homologation.
Think CSL batmobile, RS Cossie etc. with their ridiculous rear wings. Presumably you don’t see the point of these either?
In short, it appears you don’t the way it looks and the fact it might be marginally slower around a lap due to being road legal.
Is that it?
If so, we’ll accept it’s just not for you.
Que sera sera
it's fundamentally wanting.
All those homologated cars had designers involved, no excuses...all pushing boundaries blah blah blah.
and no oter that I can think of has come out looking quite so ridiculous and again for the hard of reading, it s not just the end look of the thing.. its the justification for it...or rather lack of.
And ....again....I'm not dismissing it on the basis it'll be fast, despite lack of proof of exactly how fats... we can pretty safely assume it will be pretty bloody fast.
Finiding 0.000000001% of the super wealthy car loving population that just happen to fall into the specifically described box doesn't change the my point or my opinion though...
They will be at least one person that will buy a limited car no matter what...if that's all it takes to satisfy you then fine, as said I'm not here to change minds unlike some...
I find it sad and weak to put out such a thing and then think its all great cos they all sold and because downforce
and that's all that's needed to be acceptable and fantastic and WEEE!I personally don't agree and the P1 and P1 GTR prove my point beautifully and so do the Merc and Aston...
As I've said before the 500 collectors don't give a crap what me or you think, congrats to them and their return on investment....and driving it of course, lets not forget them driving it at 1/10th to and from the track at the track and feeling that 10/10ths mega grip...
hondansx said:
I am glad most people recognise it for the atrocity as it is. For the odd person who claims to like it due it's function, then bear in mind this car no purpose - they are not race cars, and people won't use them as track day cars, and if anyone does, it won' be much fun getting stuck behind someone each and every lap.
Which begs the question that, if you're really into cars, why not just buy an actual race car and go racing.
Unless you read the specs and then compare them to the limits for GTE.Which begs the question that, if you're really into cars, why not just buy an actual race car and go racing.
This is, without any shadow of a doubt, McLaren's new Le Mans contender. It's clearly aiming at the Ford GT interpretation of the rulebook.
HighwayStar said:
Quickmoose said:
E65Ross said:
So, as above, just looks that you don't like.
Oh, and the name. Obviously, the name makes it pointless
issues reading much? Oh, and the name. Obviously, the name makes it pointless
500 people with the wedge to feel it's worthwhile, for whatever, and have ordered one. That's really all that matters. If I had the money I'd love to have one. Quick thinks it's awful and wouldn't. That's it. It doesn't matter what he, you or I say.
Quickmoose said:
Maldini35 said:
Brutal, track-focussed, ROAD LEGAL car.
Yes it may well be bettered in terms of lap time by a track only version in the future, but that won’t be road legal.
Some people want 99% of the speed and drama of a track beast in a car they can drive on the road, to the circuit perhaps?
Not everybody (even the super wealthy) want the hassle of running and owning an old race car or track-only special which needs trailering everywhere.
You obviously don’t like this idea. But that’s what we’re taking about.
This seems to be the crux of your objection.
You also don’t know how fast the Senna will be. Fair enough - nor does anybody else. But why not wait and see before dismissing it?
Making a track only special is relatively easy. Making something that works very, very well on track, is faster than most race cars and that also passes road legislation - that is trickier.
There is also the possibility of homologation.
Think CSL batmobile, RS Cossie etc. with their ridiculous rear wings. Presumably you don’t see the point of these either?
In short, it appears you don’t the way it looks and the fact it might be marginally slower around a lap due to being road legal.
Is that it?
If so, we’ll accept it’s just not for you.
Que sera sera
repeating yourself doesn't change anything though....Yes it may well be bettered in terms of lap time by a track only version in the future, but that won’t be road legal.
Some people want 99% of the speed and drama of a track beast in a car they can drive on the road, to the circuit perhaps?
Not everybody (even the super wealthy) want the hassle of running and owning an old race car or track-only special which needs trailering everywhere.
You obviously don’t like this idea. But that’s what we’re taking about.
This seems to be the crux of your objection.
You also don’t know how fast the Senna will be. Fair enough - nor does anybody else. But why not wait and see before dismissing it?
Making a track only special is relatively easy. Making something that works very, very well on track, is faster than most race cars and that also passes road legislation - that is trickier.
There is also the possibility of homologation.
Think CSL batmobile, RS Cossie etc. with their ridiculous rear wings. Presumably you don’t see the point of these either?
In short, it appears you don’t the way it looks and the fact it might be marginally slower around a lap due to being road legal.
Is that it?
If so, we’ll accept it’s just not for you.
Que sera sera
it's fundamentally wanting.
All those homologated cars had designers involved, no excuses...all pushing boundaries blah blah blah.
and no oter that I can think of has come out looking quite so ridiculous and again for the hard of reading, it s not just the end look of the thing.. its the justification for it...or rather lack of.
And ....again....I'm not dismissing it on the basis it'll be fast, despite lack of proof of exactly how fats... we can pretty safely assume it will be pretty bloody fast.
Finiding 0.000000001% of the super wealthy car loving population that just happen to fall into the specifically described box doesn't change the my point or my opinion though...
They will be at least one person that will buy a limited car no matter what...if that's all it takes to satisfy you then fine, as said I'm not here to change minds unlike some...
I find it sad and weak to put out such a thing and then think its all great cos they all sold and because downforce
and that's all that's needed to be acceptable and fantastic and WEEE!I personally don't agree and the P1 and P1 GTR prove my point beautifully and so do the Merc and Aston...
As I've said before the 500 collectors don't give a crap what me or you think, congrats to them and their return on investment....and driving it of course, lets not forget them driving it at 1/10th to and from the track at the track and feeling that 10/10ths mega grip...
I’ve tried to engage with you sensibly but I’m wasting my time.
Your last post reads like something a 10 year old would write.
Perhaps you are 10? I don’t know, or care.
Maldini35 said:
Making a track only special is relatively easy. Making something that works very, very well on track, is faster than most race cars and that also passes road legislation - that is trickier.
Well, it's very likely not going to be faster than any GT3 class racing car nevermind GTE much less LMP class cars if only because it's not running slicks. Or any half decently powerful single seater. 'Faster than most race cars' might be technically true but there's little point in going around claiming to be faster than Fun Cup cars either is there...?isaldiri said:
Maldini35 said:
Making a track only special is relatively easy. Making something that works very, very well on track, is faster than most race cars and that also passes road legislation - that is trickier.
Well, it's very likely not going to be faster than any GT3 class racing car nevermind GTE much less LMP class cars if only because it's not running slicks. Or any half decently powerful single seater. 'Faster than most race cars' might be technically true but there's little point in going around claiming to be faster than Fun Cup cars either is there...?800PS vs. 500-600PS with similar weights would make it interesting. No active aero allowed on GT3 cars either.
Would be a great test - let’s hope some journo’s make it happen.
It might defeat the object but you could always throw on some slicks if you really wanted to go fast...
Maldini35 said:
I’ve tried to engage with you sensibly but I’m wasting my time.
Your last post reads like something a 10 year old would write.
Perhaps you are 10? I don’t know, or care.
I’m sorry you feel you’re wasting your time.... would it not be a waste if I agreed with you then?
A strange way to conduct adult discussion but no matter..
:bye:
Maldini35 said:
I wouldn’t be so sure about the GT3 Lap times.
800PS vs. 500-600PS with similar weights would make it interesting. No active aero allowed on GT3 cars either.
Slicks tyres. Massively wider front slick tyres to boot so gt3 cars have far more mechanical grip. A GT3 class car can run at 2:00 at Silverstone and 2:20 at Spa. On road tyres, I just don't see how the McSenna is going to get to those kinds of laptimes. Perhaps at Monza it'll be competitive but not at most other circuits imo.800PS vs. 500-600PS with similar weights would make it interesting. No active aero allowed on GT3 cars either.
Edited by isaldiri on Monday 26th February 19:10
Maldini35 said:
No offence intended if you own a LaF.
None would be taken if I did because I'd also rather have a 918 or P1... but I don't really want to own any of them; whilst all achingly desirable on one level they are all overweight, overly complex and too road focused for my taste. On paper the Senna ticks every box for me; which is why I'm so gutted by the looks (and mildly irritated by the naff dashboard). The comparison with the fxxk evo simply to show that level of aero performance need not be so, er, aesthetically challenging. Opinions vary of course but I haven't read a review or seen a comment yet that doesn't, at their most diplomatic, feel compelled to explain why the Senna looks the way it does. 
isaldiri said:
thegreenhell said:
Streetrod said:
McLaren have already made it clear that they want to take the Senna racing hoping to revisit the glories of the past with the F1. This has partly dictated the way the car looks. Will anyone car about the looks if they manage a class or outright win at LeMans, I think not
Where have they said that?Even if they do intend to go racing with it, the way the GT regs are these days they'll just get hammered on Balance of Performance. If they've genuinely made something with huge downforce then they'll just end up having to detune the engine to about 400bhp to compensate under BoP, just as the Ford GT racer has much less power than the road car.
And if LMP1 rules are modified later to allow for more convergence of road cars to compete (big if at the moment I think), a custom designed car for the class by someone else is going to start with a huge advantage as it'd be expressly designed around those rules as to what is possible.
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