RE: Shed of the Week: Mazda RX-8
Discussion
havoc said:
No, it's that people are obsessed by fuel economy, even on a car they'll only do 5-6k a year in.
I've had cars that were disposed of simply because I was so disgusted at the performance they offered in return for the fuel consumption. I could easily afford it, but whatever design decisions were made to deliver such a poor ratio of economy to grunt pissed me off so much that I got rid. There's also the range issue too which really starts to grate if you're logging decent mileages.
We all like different things and the RX-8 is definitely a marmite car...you other love it or hate it...
Back in 2004 I had a test drive in a Clio 182 with Cup pack, when they came out and then shortly afterwards an RX-8 (231). I was surprised that I enjoyed the RX8 a lot more. Didn't really explore the handling but the soft ride was the nicest surprise. Loved the way it revved so smoothly to 9000 and beyond and above 80 MPH it certainly felt faster than the Clio. The Clio 182 test drive was spoilt by the arrogant salesman driving like a tit to try and show how good the car was and I didn't think it felt all that planted on the limit........the later 197, which all the motoring press said was an inferior car to the 182 felt a lot more stable IMO.
Wind forward to 2018 and I still really fancy an RX8 but for me I think the various downsides would put me off. Its a car for people who don't mind the idiosyncracies like the engine shut off procedure and adding two stroke fuel to the mix, etc, etc. So, surprise surprise, I am now considering buying something like a Clio 182 as my weekend toy, because I think it would be easier to live with whilst remaining good fun.
Back in 2004 I had a test drive in a Clio 182 with Cup pack, when they came out and then shortly afterwards an RX-8 (231). I was surprised that I enjoyed the RX8 a lot more. Didn't really explore the handling but the soft ride was the nicest surprise. Loved the way it revved so smoothly to 9000 and beyond and above 80 MPH it certainly felt faster than the Clio. The Clio 182 test drive was spoilt by the arrogant salesman driving like a tit to try and show how good the car was and I didn't think it felt all that planted on the limit........the later 197, which all the motoring press said was an inferior car to the 182 felt a lot more stable IMO.
Wind forward to 2018 and I still really fancy an RX8 but for me I think the various downsides would put me off. Its a car for people who don't mind the idiosyncracies like the engine shut off procedure and adding two stroke fuel to the mix, etc, etc. So, surprise surprise, I am now considering buying something like a Clio 182 as my weekend toy, because I think it would be easier to live with whilst remaining good fun.
Edited by greenarrow on Friday 5th January 15:01
I’ve had mine since 2011 and paid the price that a Fiat Panda, of the same year and mileage would cost. It’s been a good car on the road and I’ve track dayed the crap out of the car. I maintain it myself and I’m not mechanically minded. Servicing mostly relies on changing fluids often and ensuring that the electrical system is in good shape. The RX8 is really just an MX5 coupe, but with an engine that needs minor attention on a regular basis.
These cars do have major problems. The low MPG makes them unsuitable for high mileage use and the engine does is not powerful enough for a chassis that could take 350bhp easily. Despite those problems, the reliability problems are exaggerated and this has lead to them being dirt cheap and falling into the hands of buyers who should not own them. Simple modifications can make them cost effective track cars. There are many cars that I’d rather own than my RX8, but they don’t offer the same used value when you take other costs such as purchase and depreciation into consideration.
I wouldn’t touch the car in the ad with a barge pole. If it was my shed 2k, I would look for a series 1 with sub 60k on it, evidence of regular fluid changes and that the ignition system has been maintained as it should. A good RX8 is available for shed money.
These cars do have major problems. The low MPG makes them unsuitable for high mileage use and the engine does is not powerful enough for a chassis that could take 350bhp easily. Despite those problems, the reliability problems are exaggerated and this has lead to them being dirt cheap and falling into the hands of buyers who should not own them. Simple modifications can make them cost effective track cars. There are many cars that I’d rather own than my RX8, but they don’t offer the same used value when you take other costs such as purchase and depreciation into consideration.
I wouldn’t touch the car in the ad with a barge pole. If it was my shed 2k, I would look for a series 1 with sub 60k on it, evidence of regular fluid changes and that the ignition system has been maintained as it should. A good RX8 is available for shed money.
J4CKO said:
I sold some tyres, chap came round in one, bounced it off the rev limiter outside my house for a few seconds, then turned it off, it stank of oil and petrol, he said he needed to do that so it started again, which it did but with a fair plume of crap from the exhaust.
When driven a short distance and the engine isn't up to temp, the combustion chamber floods on shutdown and makes it a nightmare to start up. You can avoid this by revving the car up to 4-5k and killing the ignition then. I think it just blows the excess fuel into the exhaust manifold.OP said:
You'll still be pouring oil in at a fair old rate of knots, even without an oil leak, as these engines are major-league guzzlers. They
demand the good stuff too, none of your Costco gloop or you might run into carbon build-up problems
Maybe try a little more research before writing the article next time.demand the good stuff too, none of your Costco gloop or you might run into carbon build-up problems
Edited by PhillipM on Friday 5th January 15:21
I ran a 231 RX-8 for about 18 months and ended up liking it a lot more than I thought I would, and a large part of that was the RX-8 Owner's Club in the UK. Yes, it's not super quick (a touch slower in a straight line than a Honda S2000), but the chassis was truly the best part of the car (better than the S2000 stock for stock in my view). Set up the alignment for fast road use and damn it was good on a B road and a track. Sure, the suicide doors and nice interior were a plus as was the decent boot, but I bought it to try it out and it ended up being the car that got me into track days.
The RX-8 Owner's Club turned out to be a great source of advice but also active members that organised a lot of events and club track days. I must have done nearly 10 track days in 18 months with this car and primarily with the Club, and it's nice when you have 10-15 of you at Snetterton or Donington, someone brings hot water and tea, biscuits, tools, rents a few garages, gets you a discount on the track day with the club, and sorts out a meal afterwards if you aren't driving home that evening, and you can enjoy each other's company on the day and help one another sort an issue or get the best out of your driving on the day. And the club is full of people young, old, men and women which makes it a nice mix of different enthusiasts.
I never had any issues with mine outside of warping my rotors after too many track days. You could go out for 20-30 minutes and come back in without an issue. Just keep on top of the oil and go around and around the circuit as many times as you could physically get away with. And then drive home with no problems.
Under normal driving the car consumed about 1L of oil every 1,000 miles (better than my current BMW E39 530i). Car started hot and cold no problem and I averaged about 21-25 mpg during my tenure outside of track days. However, my driving was not the norm as I only used the car for fun so when I did drive it, I was usually going somewhere more than 25 miles away and sat on the motorway a lot at 70-80 mph.
I sold my RX-8 back in 2015 but I am still a member of the RX-8 Owner's Club just because of the people, organised events and track days. Sometimes the people make it worth getting into a certain car and dealing with its issues and having so many passionate owners that know these things inside and out really helps. Plus, there are a lot of specialists out there if you need to phone one up and ask a few questions or book the car in for a look over.
The RX-8 Owner's Club turned out to be a great source of advice but also active members that organised a lot of events and club track days. I must have done nearly 10 track days in 18 months with this car and primarily with the Club, and it's nice when you have 10-15 of you at Snetterton or Donington, someone brings hot water and tea, biscuits, tools, rents a few garages, gets you a discount on the track day with the club, and sorts out a meal afterwards if you aren't driving home that evening, and you can enjoy each other's company on the day and help one another sort an issue or get the best out of your driving on the day. And the club is full of people young, old, men and women which makes it a nice mix of different enthusiasts.
I never had any issues with mine outside of warping my rotors after too many track days. You could go out for 20-30 minutes and come back in without an issue. Just keep on top of the oil and go around and around the circuit as many times as you could physically get away with. And then drive home with no problems.
Under normal driving the car consumed about 1L of oil every 1,000 miles (better than my current BMW E39 530i). Car started hot and cold no problem and I averaged about 21-25 mpg during my tenure outside of track days. However, my driving was not the norm as I only used the car for fun so when I did drive it, I was usually going somewhere more than 25 miles away and sat on the motorway a lot at 70-80 mph.
I sold my RX-8 back in 2015 but I am still a member of the RX-8 Owner's Club just because of the people, organised events and track days. Sometimes the people make it worth getting into a certain car and dealing with its issues and having so many passionate owners that know these things inside and out really helps. Plus, there are a lot of specialists out there if you need to phone one up and ask a few questions or book the car in for a look over.
Edited by cib24 on Friday 5th January 15:38
wst said:
J4CKO said:
I sold some tyres, chap came round in one, bounced it off the rev limiter outside my house for a few seconds, then turned it off, it stank of oil and petrol, he said he needed to do that so it started again, which it did but with a fair plume of crap from the exhaust.
When driven a short distance and the engine isn't up to temp, the combustion chamber floods on shutdown and makes it a nightmare to start up. You can avoid this by revving the car up to 4-5k and killing the ignition then. I think it just blows the excess fuel into the exhaust manifold.Turn fuel pumps on
Mixture 90 percent
Turn Magnetos to start position
R8Steve said:
They do, yes, some more than others. If you drove something like an Exige round a track then something like an Audi S3 you would see what i mean. One is razor sharp, one is a big understeery mess.
Did you choose the S3 on purpose after looking at my past cars? 
I can state with great confidence, that the S3 saloon is a big understeery mess. HOWEVER - I really quite liked mine. Once I knew it was never going to make me wet myself with excitement in the corners, I appreciated it in a different way. It was very practical, very comfortable and very quick. In fact, the only reason I don't currently have an RS3 saloon is because...erm...well I don't know! I wanted a comfortable-yet-quick-and-subtle daily driver and the S5 was available at the time (couldn't find an RS3 Saloon to test drive).
I have actually driven an S2 Elise around a track and that car was utterly incredible in the tight corners. I never found the understeer point - although that's probably because I didn't have the balls to go quite as hard as I would have had to in order to do that, in someone else's Lotus.
I had a 2003 RX-8 for 18 month and did around 40k miles in it without any problems at all. There are horror stories from people around flooding, sticking values, and other things. To me these seem like people not bothering to research the car first, or read the manual when they've bought it.
Never flooded mine, but the manual says if you do a short move of the car don't turn the engine off unless its above 4k RPM. Likewise the last port on the hi-power doesn't open until you've got a bunch of revs on. If you don't rev it, presumably because you're trying to save money, then you'll experience issues because the port isn't getting used enough. I found that I got somewhere between 22-23 mpg regardless of how I drove it. It was possible to nurse it and get 25-26 but it didn't suit the car at all. The engine wants to spin and spin fast.
It was a really well balanced car and a completely different drive. The nearest thing to linear power delivery until electric cars arrived. I'd have another if I had the garage room.
I'd also vouch for the RX-8 owners club being a great bunch of people. I remember having a day at ProDrive, coming off the high speed circuit after getting a long pedal, and having everyone look at the car due to the amount of steam coming off the brakes. Time for another couple of very slow laps to cool them down.
Never flooded mine, but the manual says if you do a short move of the car don't turn the engine off unless its above 4k RPM. Likewise the last port on the hi-power doesn't open until you've got a bunch of revs on. If you don't rev it, presumably because you're trying to save money, then you'll experience issues because the port isn't getting used enough. I found that I got somewhere between 22-23 mpg regardless of how I drove it. It was possible to nurse it and get 25-26 but it didn't suit the car at all. The engine wants to spin and spin fast.
It was a really well balanced car and a completely different drive. The nearest thing to linear power delivery until electric cars arrived. I'd have another if I had the garage room.
I'd also vouch for the RX-8 owners club being a great bunch of people. I remember having a day at ProDrive, coming off the high speed circuit after getting a long pedal, and having everyone look at the car due to the amount of steam coming off the brakes. Time for another couple of very slow laps to cool them down.
J4CKO said:
wst said:
J4CKO said:
I sold some tyres, chap came round in one, bounced it off the rev limiter outside my house for a few seconds, then turned it off, it stank of oil and petrol, he said he needed to do that so it started again, which it did but with a fair plume of crap from the exhaust.
When driven a short distance and the engine isn't up to temp, the combustion chamber floods on shutdown and makes it a nightmare to start up. You can avoid this by revving the car up to 4-5k and killing the ignition then. I think it just blows the excess fuel into the exhaust manifold.Turn fuel pumps on
Mixture 90 percent
Turn Magnetos to start position
otolith said:
TurboHatchback said:
It's a nope from me. I never got the appeal of these, V12 fuel economy with supermini torque
I note that you have a 260bhp 3.6 litre petrol V6. Can I ask why you didn't buy a diesel with the same power, much more torque and far better fuel economy?I personally think a lot of the bad rep over the engine came about because for it's first couple of years it replaced the Audi TT as the fashion car, you suddenly saw lots, then a few years later, as cars were replaced they became rare again. Catch was there were a lot of used cars around which had been driven by people who did not care particularly for oil top ups and careful servicing. Net result a lot of unreliable second hand RX8s.
Fuel usage would definitely put people off as well, especially these days where people are more aware and conscious of fuel usage. It was one of the two reasons I found it so hard to sell my FD3 RX7 - once a prospective buyer heard 17 mpg .... (insurance for 25s and under was the other on the FD3).
Flooded engines can be an issue due to lack of knowledge of non-rotary mechanics. An ex colleague had a RX8 he loved. One day he had to call the AA/RAC out for a problem (not engine related). The mechanic started the car to test his fix had worked then turned it off again straight away. One flooded engine. Neither my ex-colleague or the recovery man were aware of the risk or how to fix it. Eventually they got the car started again but it never ran that smoothly after (I did point him at some near by specialists). (for those not aware, you pull out the plugs, let them dry, and let the excess fuel in the chamber evaporate out).
Fuel usage would definitely put people off as well, especially these days where people are more aware and conscious of fuel usage. It was one of the two reasons I found it so hard to sell my FD3 RX7 - once a prospective buyer heard 17 mpg .... (insurance for 25s and under was the other on the FD3).
Flooded engines can be an issue due to lack of knowledge of non-rotary mechanics. An ex colleague had a RX8 he loved. One day he had to call the AA/RAC out for a problem (not engine related). The mechanic started the car to test his fix had worked then turned it off again straight away. One flooded engine. Neither my ex-colleague or the recovery man were aware of the risk or how to fix it. Eventually they got the car started again but it never ran that smoothly after (I did point him at some near by specialists). (for those not aware, you pull out the plugs, let them dry, and let the excess fuel in the chamber evaporate out).
One final note from me on MPG - I was never that bothered about the 16mpg so much as the fact that I had to fill up every 225 miles. I hate filling up (no matter what the car) so really I just wished that the fuel tank was twice the size.
To be fair tho, I feel the same about every car I ever own. Always joke that if I could put in £1,000 worth of fuel once a year, I'd be cool with that. Of course I would have to tow a tanker around...
To be fair tho, I feel the same about every car I ever own. Always joke that if I could put in £1,000 worth of fuel once a year, I'd be cool with that. Of course I would have to tow a tanker around...
As a base for an LS transplant these are awesome, I couldn't live with the Renesis wankle though. The early NA wankles in the original RX were pretty hardy, capable of decent miles between rebuilds, how did 20 odd years of Mazda development result in something as fragile? Respect to Mazda though for doggidly sticking with it, it sold well. Should have been designed with a Turbo though, even a tiny one like the K03, but then it wouldn't have been £20k new... hmm I'll shut up Mazda knows better than me.
TurboHatchback said:
otolith said:
TurboHatchback said:
It's a nope from me. I never got the appeal of these, V12 fuel economy with supermini torque
I note that you have a 260bhp 3.6 litre petrol V6. Can I ask why you didn't buy a diesel with the same power, much more torque and far better fuel economy?As far as I know no-one has mentioned the Saab-engined RX8 yet. If you have a spare hour to do this thread justice, here you go: http://www.uksaabs.co.uk/UKS/viewtopic.php?t=10969...
I guess to some people, putting a Saab engine into a RX8 is like replacing an osteoporosis-ridden greyhound with an osteopososis-ridden racehorse, but the Saab engines are more durable than commonly perceived.
I guess to some people, putting a Saab engine into a RX8 is like replacing an osteoporosis-ridden greyhound with an osteopososis-ridden racehorse, but the Saab engines are more durable than commonly perceived.
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